Would we want A-Rod?
I think it's very likely after this latest Yankees' collapse in which again A-Rod was abysmal in the playoffs the Yankees will likely look to deal him. You'd have to think he's be interested in moving on given the how vehemently Yanks fans hate him.
We need a 3rd baseman, would we want him? They'd probably ask for at least Myers or Hamels. Not sure if the Phils would actually need to give up that much, but the Yanks will be desperate for pitching.
Frankly, I think he'd be a monster here. Small park, 1 million times less pressure... He'd be instantly back in MVP form and probably make this the best lineup in the NL, if not MLB. I would struggle to see how they wouldn't make the playoffs with that lineup.
Would you be interested and what cost? I'd love to have him here, but not at the cost of one of our top 2 starters. As we've learned over and over again good pitching beats good hitting.
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yes. but...
Problem is that without those four, it's tough to see a deal that makes sense for the Yankees. I was actually thinking about this earlier today: something like Gordon, Golson, Gio and another pitcher? Again, I just don't see why the Yankees would do it, aside from saving money (not a priority for them, and presumably the Phils couldn't pay for all of Rodriguez's contract anyway) or "changing the mix," which Cashman is too smart to buy into.
by dajafi on
Oct 7, 2006 7:48 PM EDT
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They might do it because...
It's his money. If he wants ARod gone, to show that he's The Boss, that "lack of performance" will get your ass out of the Bronx regardless of salary, he might force the issue.
The Yankees are weak, long-term, at C. They probably still need an OF or two. We can't really help there; but I'd call 'em up, offer
Rowand
Gordon
Gio
& Floyd
for ARod, and see what happened. I'd throw in another arm, or two, if I had to. ARod would take 3B from our biggest weakness, and make it our biggest strength - that's unheard of, and worth probably somewhere around 8 wins over this year's 3B production.
I wouldn't deal Howard, obviously, nor Utley - even if Cano came back.
by Shore on
Oct 7, 2006 11:48 PM EDT
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Are the Phils a good fit?
The Yankees don't need another outfielder, even with Sheffield becoming a free agent. They have Damon, Matsui, Abreu, and Cabrera so the outfield is still a team strength and they have the option of resigning Sheffield.
Since the Yankees are still in "win now" mode, they must acquire proven major league pitching, both starters and relievers. The Phils would have to begin negotiations with Lieber and Gordon, then throw out as many names as possible that do not include Meyers and Hamels. Unfortunately, I cannot imagine a scenario in which the Phils could acquire A-Rod and not part with either Meyers or Hamels. As much as all Phils fans would drool over a lineup that included A-Rod, the Phils don't have enough pitching to be able to afford to give up Meyers or Hamels. Since those are exactly the type of players that the Yankees need, I don't think the the Phils can be serious contenders in the A-Rod sweepstakes.
by Celebre Twins on
Oct 8, 2006 11:32 AM EDT
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Alot of it depends on
I don't think it will take as much as you think. Although, there's a lot of teams out there and you never know if one will be stupid and give up their #1 starter...
I will say this, A-Rod has only $66 million left on his deal. THat's manageable for the Phils.
by JasonB on
Oct 9, 2006 9:15 AM EDT
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dollars
No way they trade him to the Red Sox, for obvious reasons. The Mets are set at third base for the next decade or so.
The Angels and Dodgers seem to be the most realistic, but the Phillies certainly have the need, too. I wonder, though, if the relationship between Gillick and Rodriguez is sour based on the failed winter 2000 contract negotiations when Pat was GM in Seattle.
by WholeCamels on
Oct 9, 2006 9:20 AM EDT
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Third Base
by Laaaaazzz on
Oct 9, 2006 11:11 PM EDT
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better
by WholeCamels on
Oct 10, 2006 9:06 AM EDT
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Cashman owes Gillick
by David S. Cohen on
Oct 9, 2006 9:40 AM EDT
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This is what irritated me
And based on what Shore said, I think including Carlos Ruiz in a package with Gio and Rowand would make sense. I don't think they'll want Gordon though. Unless we give up one of Myers or Hamels, I don't see ARod trading his black pinstripes for red ones anytime soon.
by Alex Falzone on
Oct 9, 2006 3:09 PM EDT
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Yeah
$66 million for 4 years of A-ROd is not bad at all...
by JasonB on
Oct 9, 2006 3:24 PM EDT
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PLus
by JasonB on
Oct 9, 2006 3:26 PM EDT
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Rowand
Of course, there's the other problem with this theory - that players like Rowand are valued by the Phils' front office too much to trade them. But, one can dream.
by David S. Cohen on
Oct 9, 2006 3:54 PM EDT
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I don't think it would matter
by JasonB on
Oct 9, 2006 5:19 PM EDT
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Consideration
by WholeCamels on
Oct 10, 2006 9:14 AM EDT
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I agree
I don't know whether I'd be okay with moving Utley just yet, although I do think that once his play starts to decline in a few years, he'll decline rapidly. And, let's not forget, if Utley were to be moved, the majority of the fanbase would have a collective heart attack. So for that reason alone, he'd never be included.
by Alex Falzone on
Oct 10, 2006 10:04 AM EDT
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That would be a serious offer
I'm not sure whether I'd be willing to give him up.
by JasonB on
Oct 10, 2006 4:46 PM EDT
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NO WAY!!!!!!
The Phils are doing awesome with their homegrown talent. The fans love it that so much better anyway. Do you think the notoriously stingy Phils owners would even attempt to find the money to pick up the most expensive player in the majors just after dropping a huge chunk of salary this season? That saved money will be used to pick up a proven starter. Maybe sign future (and current) superstars Utley and Howard to a big contract. If they can get Burrel to move, they'll need extra change too, to pick up whomever fills his spot. Finally, they'll need some dough to fill the closer role should Gordon not get resigned.
In conclusion... Despite A-Rod being a HUGE bat added to an already offensively dominant team, it would be a significant defensive, financial, and moral downgrade.
by UtleyPhan on
Oct 10, 2006 1:34 PM EDT
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Potential?
He's hit .243, with a .313 OBP and a horrifying .318 SLG. He's a singles-hitter who doesn't get many singles. That's... not good.
Nunez to ARod is probably about an 8-game swing in the standings - you're essentially going from the very worst starter at that position to the very best.
I'm personally not one who thinks budgets are "hard"... I don't care what the expected profit margin is, and what targets they've set in order to achieve it. Primarily because I think they're terrible at this, so I assume they're incorrect; secondly, because I think the addition of ARod, and some playoff baseball, would make the team hugely profitable, even if the payroll went $15M over "budget".
They've announced a payroll level, announced that they don't make money... I don't believe the 2nd part, which makes the first part a fairy tale.
by Shore on
Oct 10, 2006 1:47 PM EDT
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Ugh
I don't think the average fan cares if the talent is homegrown or not. Look at how popular Sal Fasano and Aaron Rowand were. They aren't even good baseball players! Jim Thome was revered like a god here, until he got banged up and his performance slipped. Homegrown player Pat Burrell is the #1 whipping boy in Philadelphia right now.
I don't know whether any realistic trade for A-Rod could be achieved by the Phillies, without weakening another area (starting pitching, particularly) to the point that the offensive upgrade no longer represents an improvement. And of course the salary considerations are significant. But it's certainly worth exploring.
(By the way, how would it be a "moral downgrade?")
by phatj on
Oct 10, 2006 3:44 PM EDT
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moral downgrade
nunez seems to be much more aggressive than bell. he's a fantastic fielder and i think he's worth the low average. beef up the pitching and the phils will have no problem continuing to hit. after all, they did score more runs this season than any other NL team!!!
by UtleyPhan on
Oct 10, 2006 5:42 PM EDT
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Money isn't that big a deal
by JasonB on
Oct 10, 2006 4:45 PM EDT
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salary
by UtleyPhan on
Oct 10, 2006 5:44 PM EDT
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Burrell's salary...
A-Rod is actually making a ton of money next year, but a good portion of it is being paid by the Rangers. I believe about 7 mil a year for the rest of his deal + 24 mil in deferred payments.
by JasonB on
Oct 11, 2006 10:14 AM EDT
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Point being
by JasonB on
Oct 11, 2006 10:15 AM EDT
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From ESPN
2007 $15,900,000 from yankees...$7,100,000 from rangers
by UtleyPhan on
Oct 11, 2006 4:26 PM EDT
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I believe
by JasonB on
Oct 11, 2006 10:10 PM EDT
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Problem is...
Yankees will be looking for a top young pitcher (preferablly lefty) someone that could either play 3B or 2B.. and probably a prospect to boot.
From a Yankee point of view, I'd definately not be interested in the Phillies without a Hamels comming back. and we all know that's not possible.
Teams that might be willing to part with a good young starter (say... Dodgers with Kuo or Billingsly or Angels with Santana or Saunder) seems a much better fit, and the Dodger's had the fewest HR this year, while the Angels were hitting for nothing in the first few months last years.
by RollingWave on
Oct 16, 2006 11:57 PM EDT
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