In the Mike Lieberthal thread, Philsin06 made an interesting assertion: right now the Phils have their best Firstbaseman, Secondbaseman and Shortstop that we've ever had.  As it is, we seem to be finishing up a sort of Phillies Golden Age.  Lieberthal is our second greatest catcher ever.  Bobby Abreu is not only our greatest Rightfielders, but when all is said and done, one of the greatest Phillies ever.  Is it possible this is spread all across the diamond?  Well, I'll tell you this before the jump, David Bell & Abe Nunez are NOT the best Phils thirdbasemen ever.

First thing first, let me explain my methodology.

I went into the Baseball Prospectus player cards and took every player's WARP3 (which includes hitting, baserunning & defense and is adjusted for ballpark and season) and compiled that for their time with the Phillies.  Now, this only includes their Phillies career.  Bobby Abreu is no longer racking up Wins Above Replacement Position for the Phils, but for the Yanks, so those would not count.

I limited the study only to players who have at least 300 games played at the position we're considering.  The only exception is Ryan Howard, for obvious reasons.  And I limited the time frame to 1901.  Incidentally, at 2B, SS & 1B (the positions I'm looking at) there are 17 players who fit those criteria for each position.  Kinda spooky.  I also did not bother breaking things down by position beyond that.  If Ryan Howard DH'd for an interleague series, his numbers still count at 1B.  Granny Hamner, who makes both the SS & 2B list, went back and forth between the two positions so much it would've been very difficult to separate them.  I made two exceptions though.  The notorious Kid Gleason had an entire career as a pitcher for the Phils in the 19th century, went away, then came back a decade later as a firstbaseman.  I only included the second career.  And Dick Allen had two distinct careers with the Phils as well.  You may say I only included Dick Allen's numbers, not Richie Allen's.

So let's have some fun.

I think the best case can be made for Jimmy Rollins.  Check out these 17 "terrific" shortstops.
Larry Bowa    53
Granny Hamner    44.8
Mickey Doolan    38
Jimmy Rollins    37.7
Dick Bartell    33.6
Dave Bancroft    31.2
Heinie Sand    22.7
Kevin Stocker    22.5
Bobby Wine    17
Dickie Thon    16.6
Steve Jeltz    16.2
Ruben Amaro Sr    15.9
Ivan DeJesus    8.7
Chico Fernandez    8.7
Rudy Hulswitt    7.6
Bobby Bragan    5
Desi Relaford    3.1
Its interesting to see names like Desi Relaford on there.  Ivan Dejesus was certainly worth Ryne Sandberg.  Forgot how good Dickie Thon was.  And the neat thing with Kevin Stocker is that he was worth seven wins after he left.  The flip side of the Dejesus trade.  And of course the best player here, Dave Bancroft, we traded.
Anyway, if you were to discuss all time great Phils SS, the conversation begins and ends with Larry Bowa.  Granny Hamner was close, but the fact that half those AB were as a secondbaseman make things a little weird.

I had to look up Mickey Doolan, who apparently went to Villanova, was a solid player here, then jumped to the Federal League.  Baseball Reference has some interesting comps for him, the most recent being Alfredo Griffin.  But Jimmy Rollins should pass him for third later this year.

J-Roll has generally been worth, roughly, 6 wins a year.  This year he has been worth over 7 so far, and will probably pass 8 wins.  That would leave him about 15 wins behind Larry Bowa, entering his age 28 season next year.  I think unless he gets hurt or traded, Rollins will almost certainly go down as the greatest Phils shortstop ever.

Now let's take a look at our keystone players.

Tony Taylor    47.5
Granny Hamner    44.8
Mickey Morandini34.7
Juan Samuel    34.2
Otto Knabe    25.1
Dave Cash    24.5
Chase Utley    21.1
Cookie Rojas    20.8
Placido Polanco    19.5
Manny Trillo    18.4
Bernie Friberg    18.2
Fresco Thompson    16
Kid Gleason*    14.9
Marlon Anderson    10.8
Emil Verban    10.2
Bert Niehoff    7.6
Denny Doyle    5.7

Again, some interesting names here.  That Juan Samuel is 4th, and Mickey Morandini 3rd really makes you wonder.  After only about 400 games Chase Utley ranks 7th and is hot on the heels of Cash and Knabe.  So far, in his two full seasons, Utley is worth about 9 wins each year.  If he keeps that up (which is very possible) Utley should pass by Tony Taylor in 2009 or 2010, when he's 30.  Utley is very much in the same position Rollins is in, largely because his competition is poor, but also because of some excellent talent.

Now let's look at the worst position, firstbase.

Von Hayes    48.2
Fred Luderus    41.2
John Kruk    32.9
Pete Rose    25.3
Don Hurst    22.1
Dolph Camilli    19.6
Ed Bouchee    18.9
Eddie Waitkus    18.8
Kitty Bransfield18.3
Jim Thome    17.5
Bill White    14.3
Deron Johnson    13.4
Rico Brogna    13.3
Ryan Howard    11
Ricky Jordan    10.2
Dick Allen*    10
Travis Lee    8.5
Walter Holke    1.8

Some great names on here.  Ryan has already blown by Travis Lee (like oh so many fastballs did) and just recently passed Ricky Jordan.  There's still a lot of people in front of him though.  I think what is amazing is that Jim Thome was worth over 17 wins in basically two years.  If he could've stayed healthy, I think he would've certainly been the greatest Phils firstbaseman ever, even at his age.  I know this may be hard for people to believe, but he's been worth more than Howard this year.  I'm not saying this to slag on Howard, but just so that we can remember someone truly special who played here for two years.

Which seems to be the issue with this list.  There are some good players on here, but none with much staying power.  After next season, barring injury, Howard should pass most of them, including the Greatest Player Ever, Rico Brogna.  But can he crack the Top 3?

John Kruk is 22 wins away.  Now, Howard is looking at maybe 7+ wins this year.  If he can keep that up for three more years, Krukker is in trouble.  He'd need two and a half years on top of that (or less, if he can put up a monster year) to pass Fred Luderus and Von Hayes (for those curious as to why I called Luderus the best 1B in Phils history earlier, its because Von was mostly an outfielder).  So we're looking at roughly 5-6 years, give or take depending on if he explodes or if his ligaments explode.  That takes him up through his age 32 season.

Will Ryan Howard still be an excellent player in 2012?  Well, we're looking at someone with "old player skills" and bad defense.  Of course, BP has his top comps as Travis Hafner, Mo Vaughn (circa 1994), Cecil Fielder (circa 1990), Mike Epstein, Willie Stargell, Carlos Delgado, Ryan Klesko, Richie Sexson and Frank Howard.  That's an encouraging list.

I'm not going to come to any conclusions on this one.  You all can interpret this data any way you want.  But I think its definitely possible that we may, right now, be dealing with the best infield in Phillies history and, up until three weeks ago, had five of the best Phils ever on this team.

And we still can't win the Wild Card.  Yeesh.