Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 2:16 PM EDT in News Comment 112 comments

Lineups have been posted:

Colorado
2b Matsui
ss Tulowitzki
lf Holliday
1b Helton
3b Atkins
rf Hawpe
cf Spilborghs
c Torrealba
p Morales

PHILLIES
ss Rollines
2b Utley
lf Burrell
1b Howard
cf Rowand
rf Werth
3b Helms
c Ruiz
p Kendrick

Good news here, as noted, is that Werth is in and Burrell splits the lefties.

A bit about Colorado starter Franklin Morales: the 21 year-old lefty spent most of the season at AA and AAA, pitching well in hitter-friendly leagues; he made his major league debut Aug. 18 with 5 1/3 innings of no-decision ball versus the Dodgers. He went four, five, and three innings in his next three starts before notching his first win against the Phillies on Sept. 11. Morales finished 3-2 with a 3.43 ERA in 39.1 innings, allowing 34 hits and 14 walks and striking out 26. He surrendered just two homers. In the minors, he was a bit more wild, walking 13 in his 17.1 innings with Colorado Springs, but he's never been prone to the longball: Morales has allowed just 32 home runs in 428 minor-league innings.

Kyle Kendrick last pitched six days ago, against the Braves in a game almost as pressure-packed as this one promises to be: he went six innings, blanking Atlanta for the first five to earn his 10th victory. Kendrick is the first Phils rookie to win 10 games since Pat Combs in 1990. The team's hopes ride in no small part on his becoming the first Phillies rookie to win in the playoffs since Charles Hudson in 1983.

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Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Francis had good command yesterday and for the most part, was able to bury the Phillies in bad counts. But today, the Phils patience should be an advantage: Morales doesn't get ahead of hitters very well (52% of first pitch strikes, league average is 58%), is average at throwing his fastball for a strike (64%), doesn't throw his offspeed pitches for strikes very well (54% to 61% league average), and hasn't been able to get hitters to chase his offspeed pitches (22% to league average 31%). His biggest plus so far has been that hitters haven't been squaring up on him well, but line drive rate isn't something pitchers have a lot of control over. Obviously anything can happen in one game, but if these trends hold true, the Phillies should be in pretty good shape today.

by enterpsmith on Oct 4, 2007 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

The Phillies need to score runs:

They won scoring 3 runs only 3 times this year.
The last time they won scoring 2 runs was August 23, 2006 (Myers starting at Chicago).
The last time they won scoring 1 run was April 16, 2006 (Myers starting at Colorado).

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Not going to win with only 2 runs today!

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Kendrick never looks nervous or overwhelmed. He is a tough guy.

He's got the same kind of glare that Pappelbon has.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

he just gave up a home run. this is not good.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Jesus Christ. take him out. this is bad.

I REALLY REALLY hate this ballpark.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

these guys are good

Kendrick got two pitches up, and Tulowitzki and Holliday put them out. It should remind him he has absolutely no margin for error against a good lineup full of hot hitters.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

ouchhhh is this realllly happening alreadyy? I really would rather not have my heart ripped out..

by espo on Oct 4, 2007 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Jimmy hits a Rickey Henderson special - 2-1!

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

ROLLINS.

looks like Morales is not immune to the jitters.

Lots of runs today.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Way to answer, Jimmy!

by garyragel on Oct 4, 2007 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Chase Utley better not be our version of Alex Rodriguez.

5 ABs, 5 K's.

Platinum Sombrero so far.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

0-5 with 5 K's - who the hell is the guy wearing #26? It sure ain't Chase.

by garyragel on Oct 4, 2007 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Reggie Sanders.

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Chase Utley AKA The Amazing Disappearing Ballplayer.

P.S. I bet 20 bucks that howard strikes out here.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Pay up.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

As Cholly probably would say, you go with the guys whut brung ya.

Utley and Howard are struggling with the lefties, but let's remember that without them we're all doing something else on this too-hot Thursday afternoon.

Morales has pretty good stuff, it's also worth noting. Electric stuff.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Utley needs to dislodge what ever it is that is stuck in his throat making him choke.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Seemingly easy DP that he couldn't turn.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

cool Kyle

Leadoff walk, induces the DP ball, Utley flubs it, he comes back to get the last two guys with no more damage.

Now he needs a little help.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

good patience helms.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

they finally showed a stat about having the best stolen base percentage in mlb history.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Morales is going to be riled now after being called for a ball for licking his hand on the mound.

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

To dovetail off the automatic ball call, can anyone think of a good reason a pitcher would be touching his shirt? That just doesn't strike me as a common practice.

by enterpsmith on Oct 4, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I can't believe we didn't score there. What the hell is Helms doing?

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Slower than molassas and it really didn't bounce high enough. I thought he would have been out.

by enterpsmith on Oct 4, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Rollins has 7 bases of the 10 needed for a cycle!

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Jimmy's supernatural.

by garyragel on Oct 4, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Well, Utley made contact. Thats a start!

Anyone have the stat on the last time the Phils had a cycle in the playoffs?

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I'm guessing never.

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Chase is choking plain and simply. This is going to be a hell of a series boys.

by espo on Oct 4, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

And Chase making contact!

by garyragel on Oct 4, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I'm guessing never. He could easily do it today--but would he stop at second on the double?

Great inning there--excellent at-bats from Helms, Chooch, and Good Jimmy. Even Utley's out was very encouraging--he drove that pitch, just didn't get quite enough of it. Probably he gets better from here.

Nice to have a lead. Now let's hold it!

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

not this again. when we get a lead, we NEED to have a "shutdown inning" right after it but we don't ever seem to.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Spoke too soon. Kendrick gives up a leadoff double and retires the heart of the order 1-2-3 with a man on 2nd.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

beautiful

Kendrick gives up the leadoff double, then gets a strikeout, a one-pitch groundout, and a popup to strand Matsui.

He's thrown 45 pitches, Morales 52. The Phils need to keep the pressure on and not let the kid get into a groove.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

20 bucks that howard Ks again.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Damn. He got hit.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Howard got picked off. That was mighty close to a balk though. He seemed to step towards home plate.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

double ouch

First Howard gets hit on the hand. Then he kills the momentum with a beyond-stupid baserunning blunder.

Seven-pitch inning for Morales, and he's right back in the swing. Not good.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Fuck. You can't give up leadoff doubles every inning and expect not to give up runs.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I don't know if I like taking Kendrick out there.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Kendrick out

I hope it works... but I HATE this decision. Unless Lohse has held Matsui to an 0-for-80 or something, this is potentially a terrible call. Kendrick's allowed a few rockets, but he gets out of jams.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Kendrick out

just unreal. really. Manuel should lose his job if for nothing else that one move. I am in shock.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Kendrick out

Goddammit.

I've been wrong so often this year. Why couldn't this have been one of those times?

Not only did that backfire as badly as possible, we now lose Lohse for Game Three. I hate Gramps in that park as much as I hated the move to pull Kendrick.

We'd better come back and win this one.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Kendrick out

We are finished. Finished. Plain and simple. I am so fucking furious right now. Guarantee the hitters start pressing again.

SERIES...OVER...

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

BRILLIANT MOVE CHARLIE!!!!! FUCK. GAME OVER. SEE YOU NEXT YEAR BOYS.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

kendrick had no business coming out that early.

by char6587 on Oct 4, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

That was disgusting - thank you Kyle Lohse

by garyragel on Oct 4, 2007 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

but most of all - thank you Chollie you managerial genius

by garyragel on Oct 4, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

sooo.. there goes my heart. :(

by espo on Oct 4, 2007 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Well after 14 years, we lead a game for about an inning. There's your highlight reel. It's over. This team sucks. Maybe we'll learn our lesson and spend some money on pitching in the offseason. Losers.

by foos05 on Oct 4, 2007 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I wouldn't go that far.

It was a bonehead move by Manuel. But the team doesn't suck.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Right now they do. Besides Rollins today, a good hit by Rowand, and a "thank god we're at CBP" shot laughs by Pat we haven't done shit. And... Kaz Matsui, Kaz Matsui... just hit a grand slam. Thank god Ryan Howard got hit by a pitch, because that's the only way he's gonna get on base today. Oh, and let's not forget Chase... he should get his postseason bonus right now for actually making contact. Good job guys! Way to be!

by foos05 on Oct 4, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Who wants to bet that Kyle Loshe already has death threats on his answering machine?

by foos05 on Oct 4, 2007 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I would bet that the blame goes 20% kendirck, 5% loshe, 20% helms, and 100% chollie

by char6587 on Oct 4, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Stay classy, Philadelphia...

You guys are all a little overwrought here. I'm upset too. But Utley, Manuel, Lohse... they've all done a hell of a lot more good than harm this season.

Besides, think of it this way: Lohse giving up that bomb probably cost him a couple million bucks, and ten percent of that was for Bora$s...

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

this is reallyyy a bummerr.. I can't go another year like this

by espo on Oct 4, 2007 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Yep, we come right back out and have a quick 1,2,3 inning. We are going out to Colorado down 0-2, thats a guarantee.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I dunno. Obviously it didn't work out so it's easy to second guess, but Kendrick wasn't good today. He was up with everything and was in trouble every inning. That at least has to be factored in.

by enterpsmith on Oct 4, 2007 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Good inning by Lohse. 10-spot please. Pretty please.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

10? The way this team is playing we might need about 5 more on top of that.

by foos05 on Oct 4, 2007 4:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Mesa? Mesa? Are you serious? They game is at least almost within reach right now. What are they trying to pull here?

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

can someone please tell me that I didn't just see joey table in the bullpen?

by char6587 on Oct 4, 2007 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Chase gets a hit. And in other news, hell has just frozen over.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Up until the 4th inning of this game I thought that Manuel should probably get some votes for manager of the year and should have certainly gotten a new deal. However, in the last 2 innings he has basically presented an excellent case against those 2 things happening.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

One move changes your entire opinion of Manuel? It has to be a really, really atrocious decision for that to make sense to me and frankly, I don't think taking Kendrick out was clearly the wrong move. Managers make moves that don't work out and I think you can only really evaluate them on the thinking behind their moves. If you're thinking correctly, things'll work out more than they don't.

by enterpsmith on Oct 4, 2007 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Well considering we were up 1 immediately before Kedrick came out and down 3 immediately after he came out i would say it was pretty damn atrocius.

I guess I still think he should get a new deal. That is just me venting out loud.

P.S. Mesa needs to be taken out before we end up down double digits.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

mesa

I had trouble seeing the scenario in which I turn off a playoff game and go do something else, but that walking POS could do it. Expect two runs minimum here.

Thinking about it a little more, the Kendrick decision wasn't indefensible. He'd left some pitches up and Matsui had gotten him last time. But Lohse isn't a reliever by trade and bringing him into a bad jam mid-inning just wasn't likely to work out well.

Then having him ignore the scouting report... 'nuff said.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: mesa

You sir, are correct.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: mesa

Gosh, who could have seen that coming?

I really effing hate Mesa. Hate everything about him. Garbage pitcher, garbage human being, and the fact that he walked the first two actually didn't even bother me because I knew what was coming as soon as Colorado put one in play.

It's tough to get out-managed by Clint Hurdle, but Manuel's done it in these two games.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: mesa

I think Manuel needs to be grilled in the post game press conference.

I would ask him something along the lines of: "Considering Mesa's complete ineffectiveness throughout the season, what was your thought process in bringing him into a must win game where your team was already down 3?"

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: mesa

How about putting him on the roster in the first place?

The only answer to that, the only semi-rational answer, is "experience." And that's crap. Kane Davis has no command but at least can throw it past someone. Fabio Castro, same deal. Hell, John freakin' Ennis has more stuff than Mesa.

Mesa was marginally effective even a few years ago because he still had enough velocity and movement on his fastball to retire bad hitters. Now he has a straight-as-string 90 mph fastball, and a flat slider that's the equivalent to batters of Paris Hilton on roofies. It's borderline-miraculous that he ever records an out.

As Dave Cohen noted, it's indefensible that he's on the roster, and much worse that he was in this must-win game.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: mesa

"How about putting him on the roster in the first place?"

I knew that Castro wasn't going to make the post-season roster cuz Chollie doesn't trust him. When Mesa walked the first two hitters, I was thinking, "Hell, Chuck, Fabio could do THAT" But at least Castro might throw the ball BY somebody. Which is more than you could say for Joe Table.

Actually, before that, when they said that Mesa was coming in, all I could think of were white flags.

by Dalton Bouchee on Oct 4, 2007 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: mesa

Normally thats what you associate Mesa with.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 5, 2007 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

How can Manuel use Mesa? It's really unfathomable. I didn't understand his being on the post-season roster and don't understand his being actually used. I hope he proves me wrong, but this is a stupid move through and through, regardless.

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Yeah I've pretty much given up all hope here, unless you can quickly clone Jimmy Rollins 7 times and have him bat repeatedly. At this point I hope we get swept. They've just destroyed all my hope, I don't want them to win a game or two and destroy it again.

by foos05 on Oct 4, 2007 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

grady little got fired for one move, why can't manuel?

by char6587 on Oct 4, 2007 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

yeah...I guess.

I think we would have a down year next year if Manuel wasn't resigned. I don't see any manager they could bring in that the players would play as well under as they do Manuel.

The players seem unanimous in their support for Manuel.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Grady wasn't fired just because he left Pedro in too long. He was fired because the Sox front office told him repeatedly that Pedro wasn't to go more than 100 pitches. He was fired because he repeatedly did something he was told not to.

I didn't criticize Manuel for pulling kendrick, but bringing in Mesa is inexcusable. He really shouldn't have even been on the roster. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm progressing through the stages of grief pretty rapidly.

by enterpsmith on Oct 4, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" - Albert Einstein

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 5:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

haha

2 walks. Did anyone expect anything different?

We still have to see the grand finale: the 3-run bomb.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Not quite the finale you were looking for, but that was bad enough. Rocks in 3.

by garyragel on Oct 4, 2007 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

2 straight walks by Table - good God what was Manuel thinking?

by garyragel on Oct 4, 2007 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Ok, this is starting to make me just plain angry. I need to turn this off before I break something.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Bringing in Mesa is an absolutely indefensible move. Having him on the post-season roster was also. It's shocking.

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Maybe the momentum thing does have legs. Everything has gone right for Colorado.

by FTN414 on Oct 4, 2007 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I read on the Rockies SBN site that the Phils have been the worst-hitting team in the NL over the last month, while Colorado was the best. That has been borne out yesterday and today.

Yesterday's loss didn't bug me all that much. This one is a gut-punch, probably because we had the lead and Manuel's managed a bad game.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

They better just take Mesa out for his own damn safety. My god, the fans are going to go out there and kill him.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Quick poll, should I continue to watch this game?

A for yes

B for no

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

is the 10-run rule in effect for today's game, does anyone know?

by char6587 on Oct 4, 2007 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

So has this disaster NOW won anyone over to the idea that maybe Manuel shouldn't be resigned?

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Not me. He could poop on the lineup card and I still think he should be back next year. They won the division. The players love him and believe in him. He's gotten results out of a pitching staff that, by any objective standard, stinks.

Is he managing a terrible series? Yeah. But they're also being outplayed.

Besides, ask yourself this question: do you trust Pat Gillick and Ruben Amaro to hire someone who'd do a better job?

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Yes, I think even after this mess the fact that they won the division and that the players love him is enough to warrant him being resigned.

But this is really indicitive of his tactical deficiencies.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I keep going back and forth on Manuel. On the one hand, he keeps the players happy and that's not for nothing. On the other, his strategy isn't good. The mitigating factor there is that down the stretch he changed some of his tactics a bit, especially staying away from their horrid middle relief. I really think it depends on how you weigh the two factors. But the larger point here is whether you judge managers based on outcome or the soundness of their thinking.

by enterpsmith on Oct 4, 2007 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

This is probably something we'll get into during the suddenly imminent offseason... but I've kind of come to the conclusion that the tactical stuff isn't more than maybe 10 percent of a manager's total job description. Keeping the team on an even keel, getting consistently better performances out of the guys who are there when you get the job, instilling a sense of resilience and toughness, all mean more than how well a guy does the double switch.

It mostly comes down to talent. The Phillies' pitching staff is three, maybe four guys deep. Has any team ever won with so few quality arms?

All that said, it's true that tactical shortcomings show up in the playoffs--as Bobby Cox, probably the archetype of the kind of "good manager" Manuel is, can attest.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I agree. Most managers fall into patterns and the type of tactical decisions that might really make a big difference aren't necessarily on the table to begin with. For example, during the playoff game Monday, I think it would have been smarter for the Padres to intentionally walk Carroll to load the bases, then bring in Meredith to try to get a ground ball. But there's no manager in the league who makes that move.

You look at the Phillies compared to other playoff teams and they just don't have the starting pitching. As surprisingly good as Kendrick's been, he's more of a 4/5 going forward rather than a guy you want starting Game 2. This is in my view, the single best argument for bringing Myers back into the rotation: He has power stuff and can dominate a game. Hopefully the Phillies reach a similar conclusion during the offseason, because they really need two guys in the rotation and I just don't think they find those 2 guys from outside the organization.

by enterpsmith on Oct 4, 2007 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Yeah, I agree with that. They need to find a guy who's not closing now, but has power stuff and keeps the ball down. Get that guy, put Myers back as the #2, and you might have something.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Too little, way too late. But at least Howard can tell his kids that he hit a homer in the playoffs.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Chase Utley should have come up with that ground ball. He has been a disappointment.

Imagine if we hadn't wasted Hamels start yesterday. It would be much easier to shrug this game off in that case.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 4, 2007 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Dude, Utley's had a rough 2 games but this team is playing golf without him.

by enterpsmith on Oct 4, 2007 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I'm going home. I hope when I turn on the game in 30 minutes it's 15-10 Phillies.

by David S. Cohen on Oct 4, 2007 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I turned it off but I keep finding myself turning it back on, only to get even more upset the next time. Welcome to Philadelphia, right.

by espo on Oct 4, 2007 5:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

is it fair to blame this on the SI cover? I think so.

by char6587 on Oct 4, 2007 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

It didn't help. They should have put the Rockies on the cover after winning 16 out of 14 or whatever it was...

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Here comes the late game tease...

by garyragel on Oct 4, 2007 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

... and there it goes. Rockies bullpen has really done a great job in these two games.

by dajafi on Oct 4, 2007 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

I feel like they're content with just making it to the playoffs and now they don't need to try. I hardly know this team that I'm watching here. With three outs left in the game, I'm prettyyy broken hearted.

by espo on Oct 4, 2007 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Take it like a man, lick your wounds...

by philnot on Oct 4, 2007 6:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Maybe espo is a woman....

I mean, probably not - everyone knows these sports-chat-blogs are heavily dominated by men - but, jeez, women are welcome here too. No need for them to "take it like a man."
(Or, espo might just be a kid. Same rules apply.)

And then there's the question of what it is about "licking your wounds" that is especially man-like. Speaking as a man myself, I try to use something more anti-septic.

by The Navigator on Oct 5, 2007 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Maybe, in the end, it just boils down to the Rockies coming in absolutely on fire and still not cooling off?

by Dalton Bouchee on Oct 4, 2007 9:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Game Two: Rockies at Phillies, 10/4/07

Manuel should certainly be back. The job he did this year over 162 games was flat out amazing. The playoffs are a crapshoot. Our top 4 choked in game 1, and one bad pitch undid us in Game 2. If Gillick gave Manuel good relievers, I have no doubt this season wouldn't have been as tense down the stretch, and today's game might have even played out differently.

by FTN414 on Oct 5, 2007 2:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs