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Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop

Recently, Martin Gandy from our Atlanta Braves sister site Talking Chop reached out and suggested that we exchange and answer five questions.  I obliged.  My responses to his questions are here.  My questions and his answers are below...

1.  Two seasons and no division title.  Does it feel strange, or have
you adjusted to actually having a little competition from within the
division?

A: If you will remember it was more of a collapse by your Phillies in
2005 that didn't end our streak earlier - you guys probably should
have won the division that year. It does feel strange not making the
playoffs after making it for some may years, but I still feel we're
just missing it, or we're just lacking that one extra piece for a full
season that will put us over the edge. Hopefully in Tom Glavine (and
even Jair Jurrjens) that piece is in place for a good run next year.
Remember, our streak was primarily built on dominant starting pitching
during the regular season, and if it were not for a series of injuries
to Mike Hampton and the frustrating ineffectiveness of guys like John
Thomson and Kyle Davies we might have continued that streak.

2.  In bringing Tom Glavine back, the Braves forfeited their first
round pick (18th overall) to the rival Mets.  Good move?

We had a lot of discussion about this at Talking Chop, and I think the
rough consensus was that even the 18th pick in the first round is a
crapshoot and not a sure thing (especially with the way the Mets
develop talent). Consider a trade for Tom Glavine, I think any team
would gladly give up a first round question mark for a starting
pitcher that will likely give you 200 innings and 13 to 15 wins - and
that might be even more of a steal in this market. Turn the question
around for the Phillies, would you trade your fifth starter for a more
experienced Tom Glavine if all you had to give up was an unknown draft
pick? It's a gamble, but I think one worth taking.

3.  How much will this team miss Andruw Jones?  Do you support the
decision to cut him loose?

The fans will miss him more than the team will. He was in decline, and
most every metric said so. Yes, he may bounce back and have a good
year next year and prove the Dodgers geniuses for signing him at what
turns out to be a discount, but that's a big IF. Andruw was miscast in
our lineup. He was never a cleanup hitter, and because of the lack of
any other obvious candidate to hit there he found himself in that role
for several years (including years in which we didn't make the
post-season, by the way). I think it was time to say goodbye, though
as a fan I wish he would have asked for some sort of discount
make-good one-year contract.

4.  What are the Braves' biggest needs this offseason?

We addressed starting pitching with Glavine and Jurrjens. We addressed
lefty relief with Will Ohman, and backup infielder with Omar Infante.
The team says they want a veteran backup catcher and perhaps a more
experienced stop-gap center fielder until top prospect Jordan Schafer
is ready. I could care less on the catcher and I think we're fine in
center with a combo of Josh Anderson (acquired from Houston for
Villarreal) and Greg White (also knows as Gregor Blanco). We could use
some upgrades in the bullpen or even still in the starting rotation,
but they need to be affordable and attractive on multiple levels.
Really, though, we're set for next year (or so we'll find out in
spring training).

5.  Was the Mark Teixeira trade a departing masterstroke from John
Schuerholz, or did they send too much talent out of town in the deal?

Probably too early to tell. We really did send a lot of good young
talent to Texas. If we had made the playoffs last year it would look a
lot better right now. If we make the playoffs next year and Teixeira
is a big part of it then it will probably make it easier to stomach in
the long run. Of course, if we don't and Teixeira walks, then it might
be tough to watch as those kids graduate to the majors in Texas. The
history of Schuerholz tells us that he's never been afraid to trade
away prospects for established talent, and I don't think he's ever
regretted it. Can you name any of the players he traded away to get
Denny Neagle, or Fred McGriff? He's in the business to win every year,
and in 14 out of 16 non-strike seasons he did that successfully. Much
like giving away a draft pick for Glavine, you can't be afraid to
trade away what could be for what can help you now.

0 recs  |  Comment 18 comments

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Re: Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop
"Can you name any of the players he traded away to get Denny Neagle?"

ummm, Jason Schmidt?

by perfectdepth on Dec 10, 2007 10:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop
I was going to write here that it had been awhile since Schuerholz had made any truly great trades anyway. The problem is that I bothered to look it up, and I would have been dead wrong.

He stole Russ Ortiz (21 wins in 2003) for two guys I'd never heard of, then got Hudson from the A's for a bunch of non-entities. Hell, Nick Green for Jorge Sosa was pretty much flat-out thievery. Ricardo Rodriguez--around the same time we had him, I thought--for Matt Diaz? Horacio Ramirez for Rafael Soriano? Crazy good.

Sometimes Schuerholz does trade away good players--Schmidt obviously, but also Brian Jordan and Odalis Perez in the Sheffield deal, Adam Wainwright for J.D. Drew, LaRoche for Mike Gonzalez, et cetera. I think the Saltalamacchia package is in that vein. But as far as I can tell, the guy has never gotten flat-out fleeced in a trade. His track record is unreal.

by dajafi on Dec 11, 2007 12:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop
yeah, I certainly don't argue with the conclusion. just thought picking Neagle instead of any of Schuerholz's far more obviously successful trades (several of which you mention) was pretty odd.

by perfectdepth on Dec 11, 2007 9:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop
Schuerholz never trades away the cream of the crop in his farm system. He takes the top two or three prospects and declares them off-limits. Melvin Nieves, the guy they traded for McGriff, was considered a good prospect, as was Tony Tarasco who was traded for someone else around the same time. But they were both behind the top-level guys like Chipper and Klesko, who were untouchable. It's a good system, and not all that different from the one used by Ed Wade, who emptied out the farm system's #4-10 from Baseball America in his last couple of years, but would never consider trading away the guys at the very top (like Hamels and Floyd). And Wade never really got fleeced in a trade either. When he made mistakes, they were on the FA market.

But the Teixeira trade breaks that mold.

by taco pal on Dec 11, 2007 11:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk
"Wade never really got fleeced in a trade either"

.....remind me, who exactly did Wade get back for the best player to wear the uniform while he was here, one Scott Rolen?

by das411 on Dec 12, 2007 2:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk
Um.. Polanco.  

Polanco's Ops+ the past few years
113, 98, 120, 80, 122

Rolen's

138, 157, 84, 126, 89  

I have to say.... if we didn't trade Polanco for Urbina, he's a pretty useful player to get for someone who absolutely wanted out of here, don't you think?  I think currently Polanco even has more value than Rolen due to the questions about his health.

by Homer on Dec 12, 2007 9:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk
Yes. Also, das, let's not conveniently leave out the fact that Rolen was obviously on his way out the door via free agency for reasons that were outside of Wade's control. His trade value was therefore depressed, and everyone in the baseball universe knew it. Equal value under those circumstances is not the same thing as equal talent. Unless you have any evidence that there was a better deal out there, the Rolen deal was a fair one.

You might have actually had a legitimate argument if you had pointed to the Polanco-for-Urbina deal instead. But I wouldn't characterize that deal as a "fleecing." It was certainly a bad move, but it was caused by an incorrect strategic decision, not a misjudging of risk or talent level.

by taco pal on Dec 12, 2007 12:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk
Its funny at the time of the Rolen deal I hated it... but looking back...  It was actually quite a fair trade if not better for the Phillies in the long run (if we kept Timlin and Polanco.)  Timlin put up great numbers with the Red Sox, Even his two off years were above league average.  Polanco has put up pretty good numbers as well.All for a guy who wanted out of this town worse than Mitch Williams in 1994.

by Homer on Dec 12, 2007 1:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop
"would you trade your fifth starter for a more
experienced Tom Glavine..."

...how is it possible to be more experienced than Tom Glavine??

by das411 on Dec 11, 2007 12:03 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop
I think this "talking chop" fellow is way to optimistic about Glavine.  I don't have time to run the numbers right now, but if memory serves me well, Glavine is in a much bigger decline than Andruw Jones.  I would never give up my first round pick for Glavine.  Especially with our lack of top tier talent in the minors.

by Neduol Caz on Dec 11, 2007 10:12 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

This just in:
Braves fans = jackasses

reading that thread over on the other site reminds me why Braves fans irritate me far more than fans of the Mets, or any other potential rivals.

by perfectdepth on Dec 11, 2007 11:32 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: This just in:
brief summary:

SMOLTS IS TEH AWESOME PENIS SODOMY LOLZ

by perfectdepth on Dec 11, 2007 11:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: This just in:
It's really hard for me to understand how they don't understand why we hate Smoltz.  If Cole Hamels, as a Phillie, dominates the Braves for the next decade AND the Phillies were to win the NL East consistently over that time period, regardless of Cole's personality, there's no doubt Braves fans would hate him.  Add on Hamels likening a minority group to animals, and it'd be no surprise at all.

by David S. Cohen on Dec 11, 2007 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: This just in:
Personally, I could never really work up a whole lot of animosity toward Smoltz personally. Now Chipper, that's a different story.

The worst of all time were Mark Lemke and Jeff Blauser. I totally hated those guys.

by taco pal on Dec 11, 2007 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: This just in:
Wow, Blauser. I would have been happy if I could have gone through the rest of my life without having to be reminded of him.

by FuquaManuel on Dec 11, 2007 5:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop
It really doesn't seem to me that they know more about the Braves than we do.  It's a good idea to trade 5 questions, but it seems like their posts are just idiotic.  The Phillies ace is a wife beater?  Hamels is the ace, and Myers was in the bullpen last year.  The peculiar "Does anybody remember any of the guys we traded for Danny Neagle?" question as though it was rhetorical when in fact one was Jason Schmidt was also odd and shockingly unaware.  The bizzarre obsession with Tom Glavine as though he can somehow pick up and start his age 34 (35?) season all over again with them.

It's also really odd that they don't know why we hate Chipper and Smoltz.  Do they not hear their quotes?  Outside of the fact that they are sore losers who complain about our park, Smoltz's anti-gay remarks should at least be remembered by the fans.  We remember Church's comments about Jews, which are far less malicious, and he isn't even a Phillie.

From my point of view, I could never really hate Tom Glavine or Greg Maddux the way I hate Smoltz.  Outside of personality, the Glavine/Maddux way of pitching is just fun to watch when you don't have anything at stake.  Smoltz is good, but I've never really been wowed by his ability to keep hitters off-balance or anything.  Maddux seems like a genius when he pitches.  Smoltz just seems like any old good pitcher.

There's also a bizarre attitude on their blog that Philly is not a fun place to play and therefore no  one will sign here.  I think Braves' fans are somewhat missing the money aspect of free agency.  

I read a good bit of Scheurholtz's book (didn't finish, since he has an ego that makes it almost unreadable), and what I realized is that much of the Braves success is that they are the only team in the South (other than Florida and Tampa Bay who are recent expansion teams, really) and as a result, a lot of players who want to play in the South are willing to sign at a discount.  There's far more free agent signings for the highest bidder than there are for sentimental reasons.  Tim Hudson signed with the Braves largely because he wanted to play in the South.  Tom Glavine wanted to return to Atlanta as well, and agreed to somewhat of a discount too (relative to market value of his perceived ability, not actual value).

by Matt Swartz on Dec 11, 2007 7:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop
Some of the SB Nation blogs are intelligent and above the level of your average journalistic tripe; others are more of the same ol' same ol'.

by David S. Cohen on Dec 11, 2007 9:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tomahawk Talk: Q&A with Talking Chop
The metrics do not say that Andruw Jones is in decline. He had one bad year. Is that the start of a trend or an aberration? We don't know.

His defense is still pristine, as evidenced by Jones leading NL CF in RZR and OOZ.

I would give up a mid-level first-round draft pick for Glavine, but only because he's better than Adam Eaton. However, two soft-tossing lefties in the starting rotation might be asking for trouble.

Blaming the Braves missing out on the playoffs the last two seasons on Mike Hampton, John Thomson, and Kyle Davies? I don't know what to say.

by Baerwcb on Dec 12, 2007 3:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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