The end of Charlie?

by king myno on Apr 9, 2007 6:50 PM EDT

I base this on absolutely nothing besides speculation, but it wouldn't blow me away if Manuel was dispatched sooner instead of later. I know this slow start has not really been his fault; despite the talent this team has, the meager players Manuel's been given to fill gaping holes have absolutely fallen apart already. when you get three out of four good starts from your two aces and you lose all four, when you've left this many men on base, something is very, very wrong.

there's an off day tomorrow. the team is going through early season turmoil far greater than the last several years, thanks to all the hype given to this season. manuel has already shown a surprising willingness to think outside the box early this year, interesting for a man who usually sticks to his guns. jimy williams sits on the bench, an obvious heir apparent to the phillies "fortune". could a move come as early as tomorrow? after today's utter collapse, i wouldn't put anything past anybody.

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Can Manuel?

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Re: The end of Charlie?

Maybe in a month, but all firing him would accomplish at this point is showing that the team is in a panic and that nobody in charge has confidence that things will get better as they are.

Plus, as you say, it's not really his fault. I don't live in Philly, so I don't know if the media is beating up on him, but I'd guess he's pretty far down the list of scapegoats.

by dajafi on Apr 10, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions

"it's not really his fault"

My answer to that is... who cares?

Someone needs to answer for this disgrace. That Mets game, and this season(albiet as young as it is) has been an embarrassment. While that isn't Cholly's fault, someone needs to answer for it and he's the manager. It's not like we can send every member of the bullpen down the minors and bring up 7 new guys. Some kind of message needs to be sent to this team. Someone needs to show them that this effort is unacceptable.

If firing Cholly is the way to do that... so be it. He was gone after this year anyway and he'll still get paid.

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Apr 10, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

curious

Did you want to see Andy Reid get whacked when the Eagles were 5-6?

by dajafi on Apr 10, 2007 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Clearly different

Massive difference between firing a football coach and a baseball manager.

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Apr 10, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

How so?

What will firing the manager accomplish? And how is a manager different from a head coach?

by Alex Falzone on Apr 10, 2007 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: How so?

Do I really even need to explain this?

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Apr 10, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions

So what?

Sure, a football head coach (especially one who is also GM, as is Reid) has a far greater impact on the outcome of a game.

Thus, firing the head coach is far more likely to have an effect than firing the manager.

Unless you favor firing Manuel just to cause some sort of psychological "shakeup" effect?

by phatj on Apr 10, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: So what?

Yes, that was my thought. I honestly don't blame Cholly for most of the problems. I also don't give him much credit either. I don't think from a tactical aspect firing him would make all that much a difference...

However, it just might be what the team needs to shake itself out of this. Maybe realizing they just lost Cholly his job wakes them up. We can not afford to drop 8 or 9 games back this month. I really the think the Braves and Mets are too good to catch if we do that. Cholly was gone after this year anyway, so it's not even as if we'd really be doing him dirty by firing him.

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Apr 11, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: "it's not really his fault"

But the team has started out the same four of the last five years. Why does someone need to answer for it this year?

by phatj on Apr 10, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: "it's not really his fault"

I think the notion is that since Manuel's probably doomed anyway, they might as well give someone else a shot.

I don't agree with this (not yet, at least--if they're 10-23 a month from now, I might change my tune), but I'd guess this is the logic.

FWIW, I strongly believe that nobody on staff now is a good replacement. I love Davey Johnson, so if they could bring him in, I'd be intrigued, but otherwise I wouldn't be looking to make a change any sooner than mid or late May.

by dajafi on Apr 10, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Football/Baseball diff

Baseball managers... Their job is basically to not screw it up for the players. The best have admitted this. All they tend to do is cost games. The trick is costing the least. Football coaches on the other hand can turn a mediocre team into an elite one (see, Eagles, Patriots, Colts, et al) while maintaining (and indeed forced to maintain) relatively stable rosters on a year to year basis.

by Alon on Apr 10, 2007 7:43 PM EDT reply actions