Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

by dajafi on Jul 5, 2007 12:00 AM EDT in News

After a brutally tough extra-innings loss Tuesday night, the Phillies showed their resilience--and offered a reminder of just how good then can look when they get decent pitching--with an 8-3 win in Houston on Wednesday afternoon. Heroes included Cole Hamels, who earned his 10th victory of the year with seven innings of one-run ball; Wes Helms, who had his second straight three-hit game; Chase Utley, who was a home run short of the cycle; and Ryan Howard, who cracked his 20th homer of the season.

The win allowed the Phillies to avoid getting swept in Minute Maid Park, and gave them a series victory in an alternate, more just universe: what made Tuesday's defeat so galling was that Antonio Alfonseca had appeared to preserve a 4-3 lead in the 9th inning when, with the bases loaded and one out, he got Astros slugger Carlos Lee to ground into what looked like a game-ending 6-4-3 double play. But first-base umpire Lance Barksdale inexplicably called Lee safe, the run scored, and Houston won it on a walkoff home run four innings later.

During the game Wednesday, Barksdale offered a "my bad" to Phils manager Charlie Manuel:

[T]he Phils should have gotten on that plane for Denver with two wins rattling around the luggage compartment.

Manager Charlie Manuel got a reminder of that in the eighth inning when he walked to home plate to inform umpire Barksdale of a double switch.

At the end of the quick conference, Barksdale apologized to Manuel for blowing a call in the ninth inning the night before. Barksdale had ruled that Carlos Lee had beaten a double-play ball that would have ended the game and given the Phillies a 4-3 win. The call enabled the Astros to tie the game, and they won it on Pence's home run in the 13th.

Manuel, who was ejected by Barksdale after disputing the call Tuesday night, held no ill will toward the umpire.

"I told him, 'Even I made a mistake one day,' " Manuel said with a chuckle.

There's no percentage in Manuel staying mad at an ump; Barksdale will call Phillies games again. (For that matter, he might have given Hamels a couple advantageous rulings working behind home plate today.) But I sure can. We're in a race here, asswipe; do your job.

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Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

So....why exactly did Charlie not protest that game while he got himself tossed?

by das411 on Jul 5, 2007 3:02 AM EDT reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

do teams protest games anymore? i can't rmember the last time i heard a game was being played under protest.

by gr on Jul 5, 2007 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

I don't know, but I'm also not sure what would have been gained. I can't remember a protest ever leading to a reversed game outcome.

by dajafi on Jul 5, 2007 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

Protests are symbolic. Anyone who rips Charlie for that is just doing it out of prejudice.

by taco pal on Jul 5, 2007 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

It was a judgment call, so I don't think Manuel could have protested.

by enterpsmith on Jul 5, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

Isn't this an instance where the league can overturn a game???

Am I mistaken or isn't that the reason a 'protest' exists?

Huge Tiny Mistake

by pacino on Jul 5, 2007 2:51 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

I hadn't thought about it this way, but this really is in the small class of disputed calls that should be overturn-able. Most disputed calls occur in the middle of a game, when you can easily say that you have no idea how the game would have turned out had the call been made correctly.

But this one is different. If called correctly, it was the last out of the game. And, if called correctly, the outcome would have been the opposite of what it had been. All the usual arguments against looking back at a game don't apply here.

Except for the nonsensical "human factor" mentioned by Charlie in the paper today. I thought the point of baseball was to win games by following the rules, not to let the "human factor" get in the way of that?

by David S. Cohen on Jul 5, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

Here's what the official rulebook says. (I'd put it in one of those gray boxes if I knew how.)

PROTESTING GAMES.
Each league shall adopt rules governing procedure for protesting a game, when a manager claims that an umpire's decision is in violation of these rules. No protest shall ever be permitted on judgment decisions by the umpire. In all protested games, the decision of the League President shall be final.
Even if it is held that the protested decision violated the rules, no replay of the game will be ordered unless in the opinion of the League President the violation adversely affected the protesting team's chances of winning the game.
Rule 4.19 Comment: Whenever a manager protests a game because of alleged misapplication of the rules the protest will not be recognized unless the umpires are notified at the time the play under protest occurs and before the next pitch, play or attempted play. A protest arising on a game-ending play may be filed until 12 noon the following day with the league office.

by taco pal on Jul 5, 2007 3:30 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

What is considered a "judgment decision"? Isn't it always the ump's judgment whether an act on the field fits within the wording of the rules?

Is the opposite a "misapplication of the rules," in which case the ump says that the ball got to the base before the player, but that the ump understands the rules to be that this means the player is safe. In that case, the ump has misapplied the rule and can be overturned.

If my understanding of the difference is correct, it's quite obvious why protests never win!

by David S. Cohen on Jul 5, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

Seems to me there's no recourse under the current rules. It was a judgment call and the umpire just blew it. It's particularly frustrating since the Phils have had a couple of important ones go against them in the last year, most notably the Utley home run that wasn't in Washington.

I really don't see why baseball doesn't have replay though. Just exclude balls and strikes and put a video replay judge upstairs like in hockey and give the teams a couple of challenges like in football. I'm definitely with David Cohen on this one: who cares about the quaintness of "the human element" when we have the means to get the calls right.

by enterpsmith on Jul 5, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

Thanks Taco Pal,

That pretty much settles it. Outs on the bases, balls and strikes, fair/foul decisions are all judgement calls.

If the umpire has said Lee was safe BECAUSE the ball beat him there, that would be a misapplication of the rule.

However, Barkdale ruled that Lee beat the play, and if that is his belief, then he applied the rule correctly. It was the belief, or judgement, that was wrong, not the application. Ergo, no protest.

Oh, and there is a pretty damn famous case of a protest being upheld.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tar_Incident

by kdon on Jul 5, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

Protesting this would be extremely silly. Think about the pandora's box that would open. Just because it was the last play doesn't make it different than any of the other missed calls.

by jonk on Jul 6, 2007 1:59 AM EDT reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

uh...actually yeah. It literally and obviously changed the outcome of the game. Most other borderline calls are blamed for losses after the fact, or used as copouts for losses that were accrued in the innings after the call. This call was so different it's not funny.

Huge Tiny Mistake

by pacino on Jul 6, 2007 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions

Think of it this way

A correct call by Barksdale there means a 100% chance the Phillies win.

His botched call made it worse than 50-50, as not only was the game tied, but the Astros had a man on 1st base and another out. Win Expectancy in that situation is 43%.

So Lance cost the Phillies 57% of a win.

by phatj on Jul 7, 2007 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Think of it this way

Excuse me, make that 1st and 3rd with two out. That's a 31% Win Expectancy for the Phillies.

by phatj on Jul 7, 2007 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

Agreed, I mean if ever there was a play that would have changed the outcome of a game if it had gone the other way, then this was it. With the wording of that rule cited by taco pal, it seems like calls like this are officially faith-based, as it were, and there's not much else the team that gets hosed can do about it.

(but then what did Barksdale apologize for...?)

Although this is a good reason to actually watch the games isn't it?

by das411 on Jul 6, 2007 2:58 AM EDT reply actions

Re: Thanks, Lance. Really, You're Too Kind.

If only it were that simple. You can't blame an umpire there. That is a part of the game. He didn't "miss" the call since his call IS what happened (so to speak). If they wanted to win that game, they shouldn't have let it get to a bang bang play at first.

And let's not forget that the game didn't end there either.

by jonk on Jul 7, 2007 5:41 PM EDT reply actions

Are you just doing this to be argumentative?

The throw beat the runner. He should have been called out. Barksdale blew the call. These are facts.

by phatj on Jul 7, 2007 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Are you just doing this to be argumentative?

I think Jon's point is the Phils should have not played to the point where that call is what cost them the game. Also, how many calls have gone the Phightens way that shouldn't have this year?

by Homer on Jul 8, 2007 5:38 AM EDT up reply actions