Lidge, Madson sign

by dajafi on Jan 17, 2008 10:31 PM EST in News

Update [2008-1-18 23:55:21 by dajafi]: As you've probably heard by now, the Phillies and Ryan Howard exchanged arbitration figures Friday, and the sides aren't close: the Phils offered $7 million, and Howard wants $10 million. Feel free to join the discussion in the comments.

The Phillies reached one-year agreements today with relief pitchers Brad Lidge and Ryan Madson, avoiding arbitration with both. Lidge, the closer acquired from Houston early in the offseason, will earn $6.35 million in his final season before free agency. Madson, whose strong 2007 season was cut short by injuries, signed for $1.4 million.

Both deals strike me as reasonable. Lidge, who made $5.3 million in 2007, had an up-and-down season for the Astros, but will be a bargain if he performs up to his talent in the closer role. Madson likely would have been in line for a considerably larger raise from the $1.1 million he pulled down in 2007 were it not for the two-plus months he spent on the disabled list.

Ryan Howard and Eric Bruntlett are the Phils' remaining arbitration-eligible players. A couple weeks back we examined the question of whether the Phils should try to make a long-term deal with Howard. He's expected to make at least $7 million for 2008.

Tweet Comment 15 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

They have to sign Howard long term

I realize there's a plausible argument out there that he might become an injury risk after age 30. But the Phils still have to sign him long term, if for no other reason then for the sake of consistency.

In 2003, they gave Pat Burrell a multi-year extension after 2+ seasons of major league experience. Last offseason, they gave Chase Utley a long-term deal after 2+ seasons of major league experience. They declined to give the same deal to Howard last offseason and I defended them at the time because Howard was only at 1+, and the team was following a consistent policy. But that was then. Howard's now at 2+ as well.

I don't think the injury risk argument is a good excuse. Because of his reckless style of play, Chase Utley is every bit the injury risk that Howard is if not more so. Obviously, if you make a stupid decision once that doesn't mean you're required to make it twice. But I don't think extending Utley was a stupid decision and neither, as far as I know, do the Phillies. So I see no reason why they shouldn't act consistently now.

If they decide not to do so, it'll look awfully fishy, considering that, well, let's just say there's one pretty obvious difference between Burrell and Utley on the one hand and Howard on the other. I don't know that those suspicions would be entirely fair - they gave Jimmy Rollins a multi-year deal too, after all. But I don't know that they would be entirely unfair either.

by taco pal on Jan 18, 2008 1:53 AM EST reply actions

Re: They have to sign Howard long term

I disagree. While some consistency is nice, every move should be decided on a case by case basis. The reason for signing Howard long term isn't because of previous contract but because it's the right thing to do for the team.

More specifically, I think the Phillies would be more that willing to give Ryan a long term deal for the right terms. Based on the arbitration figures that were exchanged, it seems that Howard is a bit unreasonable in his expectations, so he probably is being unreasonable in what he wants from a long term deal too. So, I don't think the Phils should cave and sign him for whatever he wants simply to be consistent -- they should sign him if they can come to a mutually agreeable deal.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 18, 2008 9:37 PM EST up reply actions

Re: They have to sign Howard long term

I agree.. based on these numbers I want no part of a long term deal for Howard.

by Homer on Jan 18, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions

Re: They have to sign Howard long term

I always get frustrated when race is brought into the equation. I think it is foolish and outdated to call the Phillies a racist organization. We have three of the most prominent black baseball players on our team in Rollins, Howard, and Gordon (albeit fading...). From everything that I have read, it sounds like the Phillies would not mind agreeing to a long term contract with Howard. If anything, I feel that Howard has been unreasonable in every contract negotiation prior to this current situation, and so, I don't see any reason why Howard isn't also being unreasonable now. $900,000 matched a record last year and $7,000,000 will also match a record this year for a player with his service time. I think the Phillies are being prudent and fair. Also, I see no reason whatsoever to sign players based off of previous signings. Just because the Phillies signed Burrell and Utley to long term deals when there service time was over two years, has no bearing at all on Howard. Each player is different, each case is different.

by Neduol Caz on Jan 19, 2008 9:17 PM EST up reply actions

Re: They have to sign Howard long term

I don't think they're a "racist organization". That term is oversimplistic and overly pejorative. I do think the fans in this town play favorites, and are significantly more likely to choose a white player over a black or Latino player as one of their favorites. And I also think team management is probably aware of this, even if only on a subconscious level. And I also don't think the team is particularly inclined to resist or challenge it openly.

I'm not saying it's all about race, or that there's any conscious malice involved. I don't even think it's like that with a lot of the fans - there are plenty of white athletes who have been mistreated in this town too, after all: Mike Schmidt, Ron Jaworski, Del Ennis, Pat Burrell to some degree. But I think it's noteworthy that in all the years of Philly sports, there have only been three or four non-white athletes in any sport who, in my opinion, were really and truly loved (not just liked) by the fans. And only one of them ever played for the Phillies - Garry Maddox.

In other words, I'm not condemning anyone here. I don't think that would be right. But I also don't think it's right for you to accuse me of "bringing race into the equation" just because I talked about this issue. I didn't "bring" race into anything. Race is a part of our society; it's a fact on the ground. What you seem to be asking for is for everyone to just pretend like it doesn't exist.

by taco pal on Jan 21, 2008 3:12 PM EST up reply actions

Re: They have to sign Howard long term

I don't know that we're disagreeing all that much here. I never said anything about "caving" to unreasonable demands. If Howard were to demand a deal way above and beyond what Utley got, then consistency wouldn't require signing him to that deal, would it? All I'm saying is that the Phillies should be willing to give Howard the same type of deal that they gave to Utley, which I would characterize as being very large and generous but not totally irrational.

And no, I don't think that point is totally obvious. I recall there was a thread several weeks ago on the Beerleaguer blog where a great many commenters took the position that the Phillies shouldn't be willing to sign Howard to a long-term deal regardless of the terms - that they should instead try to trade him.

by taco pal on Jan 21, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Lidge, Madson sign

"Lidge, the closer acquired from Houston early in the offseason, will earn $6.35 million in his final season before arbitration."

I think you meant last year before free agency, not arbitration...

I wouldn't mind a 5 year deal to buy out all of Howard's arbitration years and one year of free agency, but I wouldn't want to see anything longer than that. I definitely would not give him a full NTC or anything remotely close to it. I still think he's going to be a DH sooner rather than later.

by Homer on Jan 18, 2008 1:35 PM EST reply actions

Re: Lidge, Madson sign

Yes, you're right. I'm changing it above.

Meanwhile, news today is that the Phillies and Howard are way, way off in the offers they exchanged. The team offered $7m, Ryan wants $10m. If they go to a hearing and he wins, it would tie the biggest award ever given through arb (Soriano).

This isn't good.

by dajafi on Jan 18, 2008 4:13 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Lidge, Madson sign

That is ridiculous. I think the Phils put out a very respectable 7 million number... 10 million... Miguel Cabrera just signed for 11+ but he also has 2 more years of service time (and I'd prefer him to Howard any day.) Heck his first year of arbitration netted him 7.4 million just last year and that was the figure HE asked for. I like what Howard brings to the team but I'd rather he move on in a couple years than tie up tons of the payroll.

by Homer on Jan 18, 2008 5:19 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Lidge, Madson sign

If there's one thing we can count on in this life, it's that the Phillies won't bust the salary structure.

I also suspect that if this went to an arbitrator, they'd win. Easy.

But none of us want it to come to that, of course. Ideally Howard gets some sensible advice and is willing to talk long-term deal; failing that, if they can agree on something like $8m for 2008, I'd be fairly pleased.

by dajafi on Jan 18, 2008 5:51 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Lidge, Madson sign

I agree that Howard's arb. number is a bit ridiculous, but I don't think we can necessarily assume that his long-term demands are/will be equally ridiculous. They might be, but then they might not. For instance, he might be thinking that making a really unreasonable arbitration demand will put some pressure on the team to agree more readily to a (reasonable) long-term demand. I don't think that would be a very effective negotiating tactic on his part, but it wouldn't be irrational for him to think that might work.

by taco pal on Jan 21, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions

Ryan Howard to sign

Just heard from a reliable source that Ryan Howard has been offered a 5 year $120 million contract. Also, can some one tell me how to make a new post on the main page?

by PhillyBruin on Jan 19, 2008 11:11 PM EST reply actions

Re: Ryan Howard to sign

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid your reliable source is either crazy or joking.

by Seth @ The Good Phight on Jan 20, 2008 1:01 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Ryan Howard to sign

If we offered Howard 24 million a year I'm no longer a Phillies fan

by Homer on Jan 20, 2008 11:13 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Ryan Howard to sign

"Main Page" posting privileges are for editors. Any user may post a diary entry, however... Go to the Menu on the top right corner, select "Post New Diary," and you're on your way. The diary entries appear below the Standings block in the right hand column; the most recent on the top.

Diary entries can be and often are promoted to front page status.

by WholeCamels on Jan 20, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions