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Feliz Navidad!

by Alon on Jan 28, 2008 4:25 PM EST

[editor's note, by dajafi] Promoted from the diaries, mostly so I don't have to write anything more about this travesty of a mockery of a sham. Don't expect this to end other than in a blazing firestorm of shitty at-bats and a plethora of outs.

3b Pedro Feliz (he of the .288 career OBP) will provide some much-needed discipline on the right side of the infield.

It's a 2 year deal.

Is this in any way shape or form an upgrade?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3219098 On the plus side... Well, I don't know what the plus side is. 20 HRs from 3b from one guy? That should be something kinda new. Maybe Manuel can work his man-magic and turn Feliz into the superstar his tools suggest he oughta be. Get that .288 OBP up to a .388, and he'll be mashin 40 HRs in no time.

0 recs | Comment 36 comments

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My ringing endorsement

I don't think he's a downgrade, at least. If they didn't spend too much money, I'll only be a little bit pissed, not ultra pissed.

by taco pal on Jan 28, 2008 4:36 PM EST 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

This is a MAJOR upgrade. Feliz has to be the top fielding 3b in the NL now that Rolen is gone! No need for late defensive replacements! No chance now that Nunez comes back. Helms had a comparable OBP last year and absolutely no pop! This moves Dobbs left handed bat back to the bench for late inning pinch hitting and hopefully moves Helms back to florida.

by schrifty on Jan 28, 2008 4:59 PM EST 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Nunez already signed elsewhere, so thats a non issue.

This is a horrid signing... If this team thinks David Bell was blamed for horridness...

by Homer on Jan 28, 2008 8:05 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

I would like to add that Abraham "defensive replacement" Nunez's Fielding percentage was .960, Helms' was .932 and Dobbs' was .945 while Feliz led the NL with a .973 which was good for a close second as best in MLB. HOW CAN ANYONE NOT THINK THIS IS A MAJOR UPGRADE?!?!?!?!

by schrifty on Jan 28, 2008 5:07 PM EST 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Major upgrade over last year, probably. Major upgrade over sticking with Helms, maybe, maybe not. I'd be shocked if Helms doesn't rebound considerably this year, in which case Feliz' defense might not be able to make up the difference.

I personally think it's at least a decent stop-gap while the Phils try to find a real third baseman, whether in the draft or via trade or whatever. Feliz should be tradeable if an opportunity presents itself next year.

by phatj on Jan 28, 2008 6:14 PM EST up 0 recs

Helms wasn't exactly Barry Bonds in the OBP dept.

either, reaching base at a lusty .297 clip and trashing the RH side of the 3B platoon. I actually had high hopes for Wes last year, but apart from July, he was horrible. Feliz at least brings a glove that doesn't have to be replaced in the 8th inning, and becomes a pinch hitter with pop, as they say.

by Chris R on Jan 28, 2008 6:05 PM EST 0 recs

Re: Helms wasn't exactly Barry Bonds in the OBP

Helms has a more extensive body of work than last season alone, you know.

If you look at ALL the evidence, I don't see any way to conclude that Feliz is anywhere near as good of a hitter as Helms. In fact, Feliz is much, MUCH worse.

Feliz is a better fielder though, so like I said, neither a huge upgrade nor a huge downgrade. $8.5 million is too much though, and so I am pissed, if only moderately so.

I hope he bats eighth, but even if he does he'll still probably walk fewer than 30 times.

by taco pal on Jan 28, 2008 7:57 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Perhaps if they part ways with Helms that will make room on the roster for Snelling and his upside.

by FuquaManuel on Jan 28, 2008 6:14 PM EST 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

I thought acquiring Taguchi was pretty much the end of Snelling's shot at making the 25-man (barring injury).

by phatj on Jan 28, 2008 6:19 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

You are right. Although I would assume he is next in line if both Dobbs and Helms go.

by FuquaManuel on Jan 28, 2008 6:26 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

I doubt that Dobbs is going anywhere, at least not before the season begins.

by taco pal on Jan 28, 2008 7:54 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

The diary I posted a few weeks back that said the Phils were interested in Feliz did note that to make the deal they'd have to get rid of Helms. So far, the rumor was half true so you have to wonder if maybe Helms isn't on his way out?

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Jan 28, 2008 7:22 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Yeah, I can't imagine they wouldn't deal Helms now. He'd have some value as a bat off the bench for them, but they already have Werth, Taguchi and Coste from the right side. Bruntlett might be Burrell's new caddy and he's useful because he plays something like five positions; Dobbs is Bruntlett with probably a better bat, and he's lefty.

Then again, we all thought they'd trade Lieber last winter. So who knows.

by dajafi on Jan 28, 2008 8:16 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Wow - this is horrible. Nothing truer in baseball than this: OBP is life; life is OBP. Pedro Feliz is going to suck the life out of the Phillies lineup.

by David S. Cohen on Jan 28, 2008 8:39 PM EST 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

I don't think it's that bad. He does have a lot of value defensively but he's nothing more than an average third baseman when you account for everything.

The move was simply superfluous. They had three third basemen and little cap room, and an obvious need for another starting pitcher with Kyle Lohse's price dropping with every passing day.

Gillick just spent $8.5 million over two years to add a fourth third baseman to the Phillies' roster. And Adam Eaton will get the ball once every five days. =/

by Baerwcb on Jan 28, 2008 9:37 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Great point on Lohse. The opportunity cost of not getting him and his 200 innings of league-average ball is maybe the worst aspect of this.

Well, and the fact that the "cap" is totally self-imposed. Those jackasses...

by dajafi on Jan 28, 2008 10:15 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

There is no longer a $95MM salary cap. Even if we trade Helms and win in arbitration against Howard, we are still over $100MM.

If this does prevent the signing of Lohse, it is foolish. It ultimately depends on the opportunity cost.

by MattS on Jan 29, 2008 12:34 AM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Here's why it's going to be "that bad." It continues the strange fascination the team has, under Gillick and Wade, of surrounding its incredibly talented core with players who suck the life out of the team . . . and do so in lots of innings and lots of at-bats. The long-lost poster/commenter shore said it best: the team confuses league-average with replacement level way too often.

by David S. Cohen on Jan 28, 2008 10:18 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Let me first say that I do not love or even like this signing by any means. However, I feel that many of you are overreacting to this signing in a negative manner. Pedro Feliz's career line is a less than stunning .252/.288/.433. When compared to Helms' .265/.326/.435 line and Dobbs' .266/.314/.410, Feliz all of a sudden seems to fit seamlessly into the Phillies group of infielders. If Helms and Dobbs formed a platoon in '08 (which is what we were all expecting before the Feliz signing), they most likely would have combined to hit for a slightly higher average, a higher OBP, and less power than Feliz (especially when Feliz is moving from PNC Park to CBP). All in all, Feliz is probably a slight offensive downgrade (what the hell is with that OBP, anyway?) However, using all of the most modern defensive metrics, Feliz is widely considered and proven to be one of the best, if not the best, third basemen in the league. To me, Feliz will not bring down our offense if Nunez/Helms/Dobbs didn't last year. Plus, the defensive upgrade at a premium position will be huge for our pitchers, especially the ground ball inducing Kendrick. I am only guessing now, but with defense included I am sure Feliz's win shares will beat out the win shares of a Helms/Dobbs platoon. Also, Dobbs can now be our left-handed batter off of the bench, which I think we can all agree is his true place in MLB. Is all of this worth 8.5 million? I don't know. Probably not, however, it is not the travesty most are making it out to be.

by Neduol Caz on Jan 28, 2008 11:02 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

OK, I'll give you this: I may not be fully appreciating Feliz's defensive skills. I'll have to look further into that.

But, by the same token, I don't think you're fully appreciating how god-awful his hitting skills are. Yeah, he has pop, but that doesn't make up for the fact that he's an out machine -- much more so than Helms, Nunez, or Dobbs. He doesn't help to create runs -- he sucks them out of the lineup at a prodigious rate.

Just check out the RCAA column in his stat line here (from Lee Sinins):

YEAR AGE RCAA OBA SLG OPS OWP RC/G AVG HR RBI SB G TEAM
2005 28 -19 .295 .422 .717 .384 3.85 .250 20 81 0 156 Giants
2006 29 -28 .281 .428 .709 .346 3.75 .244 22 98 1 160 Giants
2007 30 -22 .290 .418 .708 .368 3.90 .253 20 72 2 150 Giants
CAREER -103 .288 .433 .721 .377 3.92 .252 109 418 12 874
LG AVG 0 .341 .435 .776 .500 5.22 .270 94 388 50
POS AVG 23 .347 .451 .797 .523 5.51 .274 105 431 26

by David S. Cohen on Jan 29, 2008 9:21 AM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Well according to ESPN, last year he 45% of his balls put in play were hit to Left and Center field. Hopefully that means in OFJOAB he can increase his power numbers.

Also looking at their insider scouting report he kills (sorta) fastballs but flat out stinks against any other pitch. He's a mistake hitter that kills a fastball down the middle but will swing at things out of the strike zone. I'm not a fan of this signing at all, but throw him in the 8 hole... our bench and line up do improve slightly. Maybe in the 8 hole he can figure out to take pitches from time to time. Hmmm actually the games Eaton pitches I think we should hit him 8th.

As long as this doesn't take money away from a possible pitching improvement, I GUESS its ok.

by Homer on Jan 28, 2008 11:57 PM EST 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Unfortunately, it sounds like Manuel is leaning toward hitting Feliz 7th... or higher.

by dajafi on Jan 29, 2008 12:43 AM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

I tried to look at the bright side.

Thanks for the reality check

by Homer on Jan 29, 2008 9:26 AM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

"Maybe in the 8 hole he can figure out to take pitches from time to time."

this isn't supported by his history: over his career he draws a walk per 23.6 PA hitting 8th in the order, compared to 20.43 PA/BB hitting 7th and 18.63 PA/BB hitting 6th.

(don't misinterpret this as support for moving him up in the order, believe me.)

by perfectdepth on Jan 29, 2008 11:29 AM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

Doh...

Did you look at his minor league walk rates.... :(

Seriously.. sit him next to Eaton to learn how to take a walk.... Or make him watch Adam pitch and advise him not to swing at anything that resembles Eatons pitches.

by Homer on Jan 29, 2008 12:00 PM EST up 0 recs

wasting millions

3.5 for Barajas last year (when we already had Coste and Ruiz)

8.5 for Feliz for two years (3 million more to (presumably) get rid of the 5.5 million wasted on Helms)

While Feliz may be better than the Helms/Dobbs combo, it's not like it's a significant upgrade. This nibbling around the edges with a couple million here, a few million there....what good has come of this strategy in the last few years?

On a different note, Feliz may just be the perfect example of how strikeouts aren't necessarily worse than other outs. How can you be a feast-or-famine power hitter, only strike out 70 times, and post a .290 OBA?

by Alex Falzone on Jan 29, 2008 11:00 AM EST 0 recs

Re: wasting millions

Ahh, but his outs are more productive, I'm sure Buster Olney would say.

by David S. Cohen on Jan 29, 2008 11:15 AM EST up 0 recs

Re: wasting millions

Man, I'm quickly getting hooked on Zolecki's blog. Somebody should do an anthropological study on this. Comment of the day:

I like this signing. I see some folks mentioning that Feliz doesn't get walks - but neither does Rowand. Feliz's career numbers aren't actually real far behind Rowand's (he knocked in 92 runs in 2006)....
Posted by Steve | January 28, 2008 8:24 PM

Now there's logic for you.

by taco pal on Jan 29, 2008 3:00 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: wasting millions

The wasting does add up. The millions given to Rod last year would have been enough to keep Ryan happy.

by Homer on Jan 29, 2008 12:01 PM EST up 0 recs

From a Giant's fan

A lot of yall Philly fans need to realize that yall just got a preaty good player in Feliz. Quit hating on him because of his OBP. There was no one on last years Giants team that could get a hit other than Bonds,which is why he led baseball in walks AGAIN. So Feliz was made to hit without players on base and had to face pitchers that could do anything because the lack of runners on base. But he still managed to hit 20 homers for the 4th straight year in one of the best pitchers parks in baseball. Now Feliz is going to your little patch of grass and dirt yall call Citizens Bank Park. I'm telling yall, with a real lineup, a small hitters park and, player with power, Feliz is going to have at least two career type years. Oh yeah and did I mention he's the best fielding 3rd baseman in the NL. Feliz is not a star, nor is he the worst hitting regular in baseball far from it, just think of Julio Lugo. But the signing of him by the Phillies make the Phills even better offensively and definetly defensively on the left side. I really believe Feliz is gonna give yall numbers like .256-.269 avg., 25-30 bombs, at least 90 rbi with an OBP of .300 to .330. But yall just keep on dogging him before he even put on a glove, that's what yall do right?. Just be quiet and watch him produce.
Oh and the reason the Giants didn't resign him is because he wanted too much money from us. It wasn't like we didn't want him back at all over here in the bay. It was more like 50-50.

by jt_7241 on Jan 29, 2008 7:30 PM EST 0 recs

Re: From a Giant's fan

Woohoo, an OBP over .300? Celebrate good times!

by taco pal on Jan 29, 2008 7:41 PM EST up 0 recs

JT has a point

I mean, players get forced into not getting on base 3/4 of the time they're up all the time while getting 600 PAs, right?

Right!?!?!?!

Ah well. Maybe he'll bring over some of that Bonds-cream.

And lord knows I don't want to think of Julio Friggin Lugo. Did you really just compare Feliz to a .237/.294/.349 hitter last year and expect us to see it as a compliment?

I'll think of Feliz as a significant upgrade if all Giants fans think of Bonds as a significant cheater.

by Alon on Jan 30, 2008 12:15 AM EST up 0 recs

Re: From a Giant's fan

ha ha good one! Ladies and gentlemen, introducing the next comedian...

by Baerwcb on Jan 30, 2008 3:19 AM EST up 0 recs

Re: From a Giant's fan

^ that was in response to jt7241

by Baerwcb on Jan 30, 2008 3:19 AM EST up 0 recs

Re: From a Giant's fan

"So Feliz was made to hit without players on base and had to face pitchers that could do anything because the lack of runners on base."

Feliz had the 39th-most AB with runners on base of any hitter in the league, with 239: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?sort=atBats&split=38&league=nl&season=2007&a mp;seasonType=2&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&minpa=0&hand=a&pos=all

He led the Giants in the category. He was surrounded by a bunch of other folks who struggled when made to hit without runners on base: Prince Fielder, Adam Dunn, Lance Berkman, Josh Willingham, Brian McCann, Russell Martin.... it was killing those folks, too, obviously.

What's even cooler is that he was 11th in the league in 2006 - and, boy, did he take advantage, raking to a .246 / .290 / .449 monster.

And he was 13th in the league in 2005... and hit .232 / .270 / .416

And 27th in the league in 2004! .254 / .290 / .395

So, not only was what you said not true... the OPPOSITE of what you said IS TRUE. It's so rare that I get a chance to respond to a post that's so incredibly wrong! Thank you! This is great.

Every year, there are 150 or so players that get at least 100 PA with runners on base... and he's been in the top 25% or so EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR.

by Shore on Feb 4, 2008 11:58 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Feliz Navidad!

The best spot in the lineup for Feliz is batting 8th. Not because he is a bad hitter, per se, but because his lack of OBP hurts the least in front of the pitcher. And you'd get the most out of his SLG since he'll likely to come up with men on base.

Sadly, there is no chance he hits 8th unless he is really god awful and I'd rather that not happen.

by jonk on Jan 30, 2008 7:13 AM EST 0 recs

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