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Dreaming on Cashman

News flash: there ain't too much happening with the Phillies right now. The team avoided arbitration with Jayson Werth on Monday, signing the outfielder to a $1.7 million contract with performance bonuses for 2008. And they evidently signed two guys named Cory Willey (lefty pitcher) and Angel Negron (first baseman), according to Baseball America by way of Beerleaguer. Otherwise, Pat Gillick seems deep into his winter nap.

Given that it's probably his last one, though, it isn't too soon to think about who the next Phillies general manager might be. Our unhappy hypothesis is that Ruben Amaro, Jr., the assistant GM who's proven much more able a company shill than he was in uniform, will complete his apprenticeship with Gillick and secure the job at the conclusion of the 2008 season, when Gillick's contract expires and he eases into full-time retirement. After all, the notoriously insular Phillies went outside the organization to bring in Gillick; no way they'll do so again, right?

Still, another big name among GMs is going to come open after this season, and the team would be remiss not to at least think about making an offer. I refer to Yankees general manager Brian Cashman, who's been less than subtle in implying that he's not enjoying life under Hank "Little Big Stein" Steinbrenner in New York.

Star-divide

Now, Cashman's complaint against Little Big Stein seems to be that he no longer has the "full authority to run the entire program" stipulated in the contract he signed with George "Big Stein" Steinbrenner after the 2005 season. So depending on exactly what that means, he might not want to run the risk of the same kind of interference at the hands of David Montgomery, Bill Giles, Dallas Green and whoever else is involved with Phillies decision-making. (Please, reporters, throw us a frickin' bone here--I still want to know who pulled the trigger on the Abreu Abomination of mid-2006.) That's one potential snag, and another is that the Phillies surely won't have the sort of budget structure in which Cashman has built an unbroken streak of Yankee playoff teams.

But what I find ironic about Cashman and how he's perceived is that the same bloated payrolls that critics once alleged made it impossible for him to get burned by his mistakes now largely obscure the best work he's done. Following the Yankees' 2003 World Series loss to Florida and shocking ALCS defeat at the hands of Boston a year later, Cashman saw an aging roster and a largely depleted farm system. Cashman made a few additions of the type Big Stein had demanded since the '70s, bringing in the likes of Randy Johnson and, um, Carl Pavano--but his focus was on rebuilding a farm system that Baseball America had ranked 27th in early 2004 and 24th before the 2005 season. A year later, that ranking had jumped to 17th, and an assessment by Baseball Prospectus a year after that put the Yankees at 4th of the 30 MLB teams. BP's Kevin Goldstein wrote in December, "After years of sitting near the bottom of the organizational rankings due to some drafts that border on reprehensible, the Yankees have begun to place more focus and priority on the draft, and the results have come quickly. Their bounty of young pitching is the envy of baseball..."

While the easy thing to do would have been to keep buying high on trade targets and free agents, Cashman took on Big Stein and won a commitment to reload (not rebuild) through player development. His last few drafts have been excellent, and the philosophy that informs them--spend relatively more on draft picks and international signings rather than spend exponentially more on free agents at or past their prime--is exactly what the Phillies will need to leverage the peaks of their superstar core.

Loyalty's nice. Winning is much better--or so I understand. Let's hope the Phillies are at least open to the possibility of bringing in a GM who knows how to build and sustain a durable winner.

0 recs | Comment 30 comments

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Re: Dreaming on Cashman
"Loyalty's nice. Winning is much better . . . ."  Are you new to the Philadelphia sports world?

by David S. Cohen on Jan 8, 2008 1:22 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Hey, it's a season of hope.

by dajafi on Jan 8, 2008 1:32 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
You know... looking at Amaro's career stats... at least he knew how to take a walk.  If he could hit for average worth a lick he would have had a good OBP.

by Homer on Jan 8, 2008 1:38 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
I have to admit, I had the exact same reaction when I was looking at that page to link it. Was very surprised to see his walk rate as good as it was. I remember him as a sort of proto-Perez/Nunez hitter (though Abe in '06 drew his walks too, I guess) with a bit more power.

by dajafi on Jan 8, 2008 1:40 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Maybe he isn't as clueless to the value of not making outs as we are lead to believe?

by Homer on Jan 8, 2008 4:14 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Maybe. There's at least one guy out there whose opinion I respect--he comments here occasionally--who believes that the Phillies as an organization are far, far more saber-conscious than they'll generally admit to being. He's also the most sanguine of anyone I've engaged on the question about Amaro taking over.

by dajafi on Jan 8, 2008 5:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Like you said.. generally they are saber conscious... nothing explains Eaton though.  

Amaro is relatively young (42), played with the On Base happy 93' team (seeing how valuable it is first hand)...  The more I think about it... the less scared I get of him being the general manager.  The only part I really fear is as being a good old boy member of the Phillies family he might not stand up to the owners for major decisions and just go with what they want.

by Homer on Jan 9, 2008 12:34 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Let's hope the Phillies are at least open to the possibility of bringing in a GM who knows how to build and sustain a durable winner.

^ ....wasn't this Gillick? Or did he not build and sustain durable winners in Toronto, Baltimore, and Seattle before he came here?

by das411 on Jan 9, 2008 12:16 AM EST   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Didn't all those teams collapse after he left them?  The Jays and Mariners played under .400 ball the year after he left and a solid 3 years before .500 ball was reached again.  The .481 record the O's put up after he left there was the best they have put up.  Seems like he leaves teams in rebuilding mode when he goes.

by Homer on Jan 9, 2008 12:31 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Ding. Not that I think this is going to happen with us, necessarily--the core is too good and too young for the Phils to be at big risk of another Dark Age. Nor is it totally fair to blame Gillick for what happened in Toronto (killed by the strike and having to compete with Boston and NY as those two organizations started to ramp up), Baltimore (also a victim of the AL East and Giles-level owner meddling and misjudgment from Angelos), or Seattle (just a low point in the competitive cycle for a team that isn't super-rich).

But I would have more faith in a guy like Cashman, who's proven he knows how to allocate resources and build a sustainable system, than Amaro, who hasn't and who, based on his public comments, might really be an idiot.

by dajafi on Jan 9, 2008 12:37 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Also, he was with Toronto for 17 years and had a pretty sustained record of success with them, so I don't think he can be accused of looting that organization's future for short-term gain. The Jays were one of the best-run organizations in all of baseball back then.

Gillick really was a top-flight GM when he was younger. But I think part of this had to do with the fact that so many other GMs around him in those days were incredibly stupid. Now that you have so many younger guys in those posts with innovative new methodologies and what not, Gillick's just average. I don't think it can be said that he's improved the Phillies at all since he took over. They're just treading water - a good move here, a bad move there.

by taco pal on Jan 11, 2008 10:52 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman

Hank Hearts Cash

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyside075491318dec07,0,5598267.story

From Kat O'Brien -

"We haven't discussed [Brian Cashman's] extension yet, but he's part of the Yankee family and has been for 21 years. I don't see any reason to not continue that."

"He's busy, we're busy, there just hasn't been any detailed discussion about that," Steinbrenner said. "Is Brian's job on the line because of what the team does this year? No, that's sensationalism to say it's based on 2008 ... I'm very pleased with what Brian and Damon [Oppenheimer] and Mark Newman and all the scouts and people have done with the drafts, with the last three drafts."

Looks like Brian can write his own ticket when it comes to Hank.

http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/119959777672890.xml&coll=1&thispag e=1

On his relationship with general manager Brian Cashman:

"(Brian) can be more conservative with our money than we are. He put back together our organization. I've always told him, there are things that have to be my final decision. But he's the general manager, and he has the right to try and talk me out of it. And he has talked me out of it."

Theo aka Flip-flopper, I thought He quit and then went back to Redsox in gorilla outfit so Redsox can finish Josh Beckett trade.. Gimme me break.

Posted by: Arcthelad09 | January 09, 2008 at 10:11 AM

by Arclight44 on Jan 9, 2008 11:24 AM EST   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
In regards to rebuilding the farm system, while Cashman does deserve some credit, one should also not forget the fact that the Yankees have been willing to pay above slot money for draft picks. This makes it far easier for teams like the Yanks to rebuild their systems quickly. The Tigers in 2007 for example drafted Rick Portcello, the second best pitcher in the draft (Behind David Price) in the 20's because the previous teams would not have been able to sign him. He would have been drafted much higher had it not been for money concerns.

This factor can be amplified in later rounds because these teams can take players who have dropped for one reason or another and would demand more money than the slot value would allow for. These players can drop for 2-3 rounds (sometimes more) because most teams cannot afford to draft these players and continually have to pick less talented players that fit into their budget. Cashman has had no such restrictions and has benefited greatly from it.

It is a shame that this has happened, but the teams with the most money to spend often benefit the most in the draft, rather than the teams with the worst records (God bless Scott Boras). I am unsure what Cashman's farm system would look like if he had to draft at slot price almost every round. I am not saying Cashman has no eye for talent, simply that his unlimited budget has not only helped in free agency but in the draft as well.

by zdavis2512 on Jan 10, 2008 4:58 AM EST   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Totally valid point and something I've been thinking about this week--a willingness to bust slot helps teams on so many levels. The Tigers' getting Porcello presumably made it easier to stomach dealing Miller in the Cabrera/Willis trade, and (to refer to what's really worrying me at the moment) the Mets can afford to part with every prospect in their system if they choose to do so in pursuit of Johan Santana.

by dajafi on Jan 11, 2008 5:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Q: When will the Phillies re-sign Jose Mesa?

Amaro: That is unlikely to happen.

...I'll believe that when I see it.

by FuquaManuel on Jan 12, 2008 11:35 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Brian Cashman is not a good GM.

by philsme on Jan 14, 2008 3:11 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Well, he sure picked the Phillies' pockets in the Abreu deal. Flat-out massacre of a trade.

by taco pal on Jan 14, 2008 3:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
it really is astonishing how badly we got screwed on that trade. and it seems like a lot of people forget that we also threw in Lidle, who was exactly the kind of acceptably mediocre mid-rotation guy that this team desperately needed in 2007 and will continue to need in 2008.

and just wait until next offseason, when the Phillies will be futilely attempting to fill the hole in left and Abreu will most likely be the best guy on the FA market.

by perfectdepth on Jan 14, 2008 4:18 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
On the bright side, I was able to order an authentic Abreu jersey on the day after the trade for 50% off. Still haven't worn it to the ballpark yet though.

by taco pal on Jan 14, 2008 5:32 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Good luck with that. The vitriol directed at Abreu by some fans at pretty much every Phils game I attended while he was on the team was just astonishing.

by Seth on Jan 15, 2008 4:15 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Yeah, I'm not without trepidation. Maybe it'll be the right time in about five years when it's retro. In the meantime, I can always wear it in my living room.

by taco pal on Jan 15, 2008 7:49 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
The Abreu trade was a total salary dump. Overall, Cashman's trade record equates to Ed Wade's.

Obviously, being able to work with a basically unlimited payroll can make a guy look pretty smart -- unless that guy is a complete incompetent like Isiah Thomas.

by philsme on Jan 14, 2008 8:08 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
please try to argue that the salary space "freed" by trading Abreu and Lidle bought us anything better than...Abreu and Lidle.

by perfectdepth on Jan 14, 2008 11:06 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Please don't feed this troll anymore

by Homer on Jan 14, 2008 11:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
"please try to argue that the salary space "freed" by trading Abreu and Lidle bought us anything better than...Abreu and Lidle."

I am not saying that it did. I am not debating that trade. If you feel the trade was a bad one for us, I don't know that I can argue otherwise.

My point is on Cashman. A closer look at his record reveals a mediocre GM -- one whose unlimited payroll masks his very bad decisions.

I don't see how he would be a good choice for the Phillies.

by philsme on Jan 15, 2008 8:49 AM EST   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
"Please don't feed this troll anymore"

I am here discussing a legitimate issue. That obviously bothers you. Do you have this problem with everyone who disagrees with you?

by philsme on Jan 15, 2008 8:51 AM EST   0 recs

Re: Dreaming on Cashman
Well, count me in the group that is not impressed with Cashman.  

I don't know that he's as bad as Ed Wade (please provide comp's if you're going to make the comparison), but your point about him having an nearly unlimited payroll is a valid one.

To wit, Pat Gillick gave Philly fans ONE year of Freddy Garcia.  The Yankees, OTOH, are able to absorb 4 years of Carl Pavano at nearly the same salary.

Cashman is a creation of the NY media.  If he were the GM in KC or Pittsburg, with their budgets, I doubt he would garner nearly the support on this site.

Real talents, like Beane and the retired Terry Ryan in MN, are the guys that have impressed me the most.

by AWH on Jan 15, 2008 7:18 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

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