Phillies/Rays World Series Game Five Will Forever Be Remembered As Raingate, Unless . . .
by David S. Cohen on Oct 28, 2008 10:51 AM EDT
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PrintMajor League Baseball once again embarrassed itself on the national stage tonight. I was at the game, so I can't speak to what was going on with the interviews of baseball figureheads. What I can tell you is this: by the middle of the fifth inning, the conditions had deteriorated to the point that the field was unplayable, the ball was not grippable, and the fans were being abused. And yet the game played on, and the Rays tied the game in the top of the sixth.
Whoever made the decisions clearly wanted the game to be called without the Phillies in the lead. And even if it wasn't a conscious decision, it sure seemed that way to the 45,000 fans at Citizens Bank Park. Why were we left to drown in 40 degree weather when our team was up at the end of regulation play? Why was our ace forced to take the mound again when no human being could possibly control what happened with the ball? Why wasn't the game called when it was clear that the weather was only getting worse? No doubt 45,000 fans thought it was to make sure that there was no possible argument that the World Series should go to the Phillies since they were leading after regulation. By tomorrow morning, the rage in those fans and the rest of the Phillies Nation will be enormous. Bud Selig better not show his face in any public place in Philadelphia in the near future.
And what do we face now? Things could be worse. We have 12 outs to outscore a team that has 9 outs. We still have our home field advantage. And we're still up 3 games to 1.
But is there any doubt that rookie-phenom David Price is going to pitch a considerable amount of tomorrow's continuation? And of course there's no way Cole Hamels, our phenom, who threw only 75 pitches tonight, is going to pitch again in 2008. The Rays and MLB have removed our ace from the World Series equation. And they have their three top post-season pitchers ready to go: Price tomorrow and Shields and Garza in Games 6 and 7.
Tonight could easy go down as one of the worst nights in Philadelphia sports history. It will take on that omni-present controversy-suffix and be "Raingate."
That is . . . unless the Phillies storm back and win. They can come out with anger tomorrow night and blow away the Rays. They'll have 45,000 angry fans behind them in the stadium, as well as millions of frustrated, confused, and beleaguered fans watching on TV. Tomorrow night is revenge for all that MLB screwed up tonight.
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But what else could they have done?
If they suspended play in the 5th, you still have the issue of the pitchers. And if they called the game a Phillies win in the middle of the 5th, you have a World Series that stopped a 1-run elimination game and declared a premature winner.
I suppose you could have just delayed the game from the very beginning and just not played tonite, but other than that, what else could baseball have done?
unfortunately, I agree with this completely. I only spot two poor decisions: 1)that they played the game in the first place—but of course if they knew that the weather would be like this, (obviously) they would have postponed the game before the first pitch. 2) the fact that they didn’t postpone the game as soon as they knew that they wouldn’t be able to finish the game was stupid.
It’s annoying that they are pretending that they weren’t waiting for the rays to score a run, but had the cole not gone out for the top of the fifth and the game had stopped at 2-1, I’m not sure I would’ve been comfortable with an ESPN guy telling me that at 12:45AM that the game is officially canceled and the Phils just won the world series.
I agree with waiting until they can finish the game, regardless of what the score was. The only thing I have issue with is that the rays have that last run. Cole wouldn’t be able to pitch again regardless. blah blah blah, it sucks that it rained, I’m not sure it’s rain-gate, though.
I generally agree, as well. I’m simply taking this opportunity to throw stones at Bud Selig because it’s fun to do and he’s a deserving target for numerous reasons. Plus his evasive answers do not exude confidence that he is on the level.
As to Cole Hamels throwing “only” 75 pitches, whose fault is that? He pitched a hell of a game in very crappy conditions. The ball became unwieldy because it was so wet, which led to the bobbled balls and “comical” play.
I think the game should have been postponed long before its scheduled start. I looked at the weather map late in the afternoon and could see this long line of rain headed right for Philly. Anybody with a working pair of eyes could see what was coming. I’m pretty sure I know why it wasn’t postponed: TV agreements. Meanwhile, fans and players suffer.
Cardinals Fan Here
I think if they would called the game after the 5th it would of been the World Series with an asterisk aside it. Their would always be doubt the Phillies just got lucky cause of a rain out. That they really didn’t finish off the Rays but just got lucky. Yeah, They probably would of won the World Series but crazier things do happen.
If the Cardinals were in the WS in the same spot as the Phillies I would want them to postpone the game cause I don’t want their to be any doubt we were the best team on the field. I would not my World Series called into question by other teams fans. Stuck defending the World Series win into oblivion. Now if I was in the Rays position and they called the game after the fifth I would of fucking rioted and cast off baseball for eternity.
Cooler Heads...
No way an elimination game should be decided without playing a full 9 innings. That makes much of your post moot imo. As far as David Price getting to pitch, he’s allowed to pitch. Cole Hamels and his 75 pitches? If this game had continued, chances are he would’ve been pinch hit for in the B6th inning. Perhaps not with normal weather conditions but with rain and temps below 40, he was probably gone. There is no reason to be so pissed off, fans of each team could come up with a similar argument. Rays fans could say if the umps hadn’t sucked so bad on their ball/strike calls it could’ve easily been 1-0 Rays after 5 (regulation) innings, 2-0 after 5-1/2. The game is tied, the Phillies have three more outs to play with and get to bat last. The advantage is still with them. Just enjoy the final 21 outs whenever play is resumed.
vr, Xei
That was the biggest load of BS I have ever sat threw. After all of the Ray’s pitchers had struggled with command in the 5th, I thought there was no way they were going to make cole come out and throw. Sure enough, they did, and it was painfully obvious that the game should have been called long before. The batters were given 2 free balls per at bat MINIMUM due to the rain. Bud Selig will forever be the Asshole in Philadelphia if the Rays win this series.
Btw, Cole Hamels could have the amazing opportunity to be able to start back to back WS games. Lets say the rain doesn’t finish until after Wednesday and then they finish on Thursday, travel on Friday and play game 6 on Saturday. You start Cole again if the Phils lose, no?
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
there won’t be a travel day friday… if that situation unfolds, they play game 5.5 thursday, fly after the game if the Rays win, play 6 on friday and 7 on saturday… now, I could see Cole maybe throwing game 7 Saturday, especially given the fact he only threw 75 pitches tonight…
"When you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys - there's no better feeling than to have that done." - Matt Stairs 10/13/08
Gold... Pure Gold...
Deluded
“After all of the Ray’s pitchers had struggled with command in the 5th”
Funny how you Phillies fans forget to mention that Hammel’s strike zone was 6-12 inches wider than the plate and Kazmir’s was 2-3 inches narrower than the plate. MLB definately embarrassed itself in this game by allowing the umpires to make the fix so obvious.
Yes, because everyone loves Philadelphia and wants them to win!
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
give it a break
the umpiring has been uniformly terrible for both sides, Rays fans and Phillies fans should be commiserating about the terrible umpires, if anything.
and since when has ANYONE wanted the Phillies to win ANYTHING?! your whole premise is a sad joke to us.
I wish we didn't have dopes like THETRUTHBETOLD
As a Rays fan, I’m with you on this. It’s like the umps have been flipping a coin before each game and ask themselves, “who are we gonna screw today?” I’m sure that the parent is probably someone on DRaysBay who created an account just to come over here and post that. I hope MLB and the Umpire’s union seriously reassess their policy of their extra-large rotation of umpiring officials for playoff series and start going with who grades out best based on correct calls and PitchFX.
since when does any strike zone favor Philly?
"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"
Wednesday
Here’s Blanton’s normalized strike zone (courtesy of BrooksBaseball.net):
Here’s Sonnanstine’s:
There is a case with the inside pitch inconsistently being called a strike for both pitchers, but clearly Blanton got a huge benefit of the doubt with the lower-quarter of the strike zone. Sonnanstine has four pitches down the middle of the plate in the lower-quarter that are in the strikezone clearly called balls, and 2 more borderline pitches that were also called balls. Blanton got four called strikes in that same area. Just to be clear, I’m not blaming the strike zone on the Rays loss in game 3, that game was lost on crappy defense and the inability for the Rays to turn anything in the middle of the strike zone into runs which the Phillies had no trouble doing. But it certainly didn’t help anything either.
Bud Selig has stated, paraphrasing, that this game was going to go 9 innings
Bud Selig implied he can make up rules as he goes along
So suspend the game after 5 and make up some rule about how it’s too important and suspend the game anyway
OR PAY ATTENTION TO THE FUCKING WEATHER FORECAST AND SUSPEND THE GAME
Is there anyone who doesn’t feel that the phillies got the shorter end of this stick?
Funny how you Phillies fans forget to mention that Hammel’s strike zone was 6-12 inches wider than the plate and Kazmir’s was 2-3 inches narrower than the plate. MLB definately embarrassed itself in this game by allowing the umpires to make the fix so obvious.
Funny how you missed the entire series then huh?
by jemagee on Oct 28, 2008 9:55 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah. What really irritated me about this is the fact that Bud Selig should have informed people (umpires, managers, players, television network, fans, etc.) that he was not going to allow a World Series game to be decided in fewer than 9 innings – instead of simply fabricating it after the game was stopped in the 6, tied up, to give the impression of fairness in his decision. If I am Charlie Manuel and I know that the game will be going 9 no matter what, then I refuse to send my players out onto the field in the 6th citing dangerous and unplayable conditions. If MLB is not going to call a rain-shortened game in the Phillies favor, then they wouldn’t call in the Rays favor a game in which Cholly Manuel refuses to field his players in a torrential downpour on a field with puddles all over it.
I don’t have a problem with the fact that Selig made up the rule that the game was going 9 no matter what. Frankly, if we are going to win, I don’t want it to be on a technicality like this. My problem is that if Selig is going to make up such rules as he goes along he has to inform the umpires and teams that he is doing so. Of course, there was no way for him to do this last night because it is clear that the “9 no matter what rule” was concocted after the game was stopped with a tie score in the top of the 6th in order to give the appearance of fairness in his decision.
In short, I am pissed because Bud Selig is a lying weasel.
by FuquaManuel on Oct 28, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
what is also particularly annoying to me is that they would announce that they would invoke the “best interest clause” or whatever had the rays not tied it up, but then, had the game been called before 4 1/2 innings, then no no no, rules must be followed, the phillies’ lead means nothing.
What would have happened if the Rays had not scored in the top of the sixth?
Selig stated after the suspension of play Monday that he is ardently opposed to shortened World Series games and said he would have put the game into a rain delay that would have continued until he felt it was appropriate to resume play.
“We would have gone into a rain delay, and that rain delay would have lasted until, weather permitting, we could resume the game,” Selig said. “The game would have been in a rain delay until weather conditions allowed us to continue. And that might have been 24 hours, or 48 hours, or who knows?”
What if the game had been halted prior to 4 1/2 complete innings?
By rule, it would have started over.
“If the game hadn’t gone five innings, it would have been wiped out and started from scratch,” DuPuy said.
I’ve heard rumors that Maddon knew what was going on and was talling – if he somehow knew and no one else did – selig should be anally violated by one of thse sticks in a pit in a indiana jones move – you know the ones – with all the spikes?
ALso – I give manuel points for refusing to talk to the media last night
by jemagee on Oct 28, 2008 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Manuel gained a few badass points for that in my book. I heard Manuel and the entire clubhouse were fuming. I view that as a good thing. It is possible that the Rays mentality is more “happy to be tied” while the Phillies is certainly “pissed at getting screwed.” If they can translate that anger into some good ABs then we should be good.
And I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Maddon had the word and was purposely stalling. He strikes me as just the type of guy who would do something like that.
The game will be continued when Bud Selig determines the conditions are right. Bud Selig is now a groundskeeper and a weather person?
This is pathetic because they aren’t going to play this tonight either are they?
by jemagee on Oct 28, 2008 10:02 AM EDT reply actions
Come on
Bud Selig isn’t even a very good commish!!!
"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"
This could have all been avoided...
… if someone had paid attention to the weather forecast and started the game at 7:05-7:15 and tell FOX to take their stupid pregame show and shove it. The game could have been completed by the time it was called if it had started then. However, they don’t start these games until the ridiculous time of 8:30.
- Oh, Bobby. -
so here’s a question… the game is slated for an 8PM start tonight correct? So, does that mean we’re going to have team re-introductions, a new national anthem, and the rest of the pregame bullshit before game 5.5, or is first pitch of game 5.5 going to actually be around 8PM?
"When you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys - there's no better feeling than to have that done." - Matt Stairs 10/13/08
Gold... Pure Gold...
Based on the weather forecasting – a first pitch before 9:30 local time is un even
by jemagee on Oct 28, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
All commentators that I have heard indicate that IFF the game is played tonight, there will be a pre-game show at 8 with the first pitch to be thrown around 8:22 to 8:30 PM.
Right now the RADAR shows the storm cranking around Long Beach Island so if it keeps moving off the coast it might be free of rain at CBP, but there are the factors of the wind and cold. The combination of rain, wind, and cold last night should have postponed the game from starting, but with that history I doubt that wind and cold will stop them from playing tonight’s game. Note the forecast wind gusts, those could make fly balls a real circus.
Tonight’s forecast:
Mostly cloudy and windy. Lows in the lower 30s. West winds 15 to 25 mph. Gusts up to 40 mph in the evening.
My beefs
With a short night of sleep under my belt, here are my beefs with the way last night’s game was handled:
1) That it was played at all, given the obvious weather conditions. We would still have our ace pitching whenever the game was made up.
2) That it wasn’t called after the fourth inning, when it was clear the conditions were bad and getting worse. At the latest, in the middle of the top of the fifth when Rollins couldn’t catch a simple popup.
3) That it wasn’t called when the game was official. It would have been a stain on the victory, but the rules are the rules. A game is official after 4.5 innings when the home team has the lead. The Phils did, and they should have won the game.
4) That if, as they did, they played the top of the sixth, they didn’t also play the bottom of the sixth so that the Rays’ pitchers and fielders faced the same disadvantages the Phils’ did. If not, then the top of the sixth shouldn’t count.
5) That it appeared, even if not the reality, that MLB was waiting for the Rays to tie it before calling it so that they could look unbiased.
It was a sham last night. And if the Phillies win the Series, especially if they win it at home, all will be forgotten (but not forgiven). But, if the Phillies lose the Series, it will be one of the worst World Series moments ever.
by David S. Cohen on Oct 28, 2008 10:45 AM EDT reply actions
4) That if, as they did, they played the top of the sixth, they didn’t also play the bottom of the sixth so that the Rays’ pitchers and fielders faced the same disadvantages the Phils’ did. If not, then the top of the sixth shouldn’t count.
Couldn’t agree more… you have to have the feeling that either they were playing until the Rays tied it or until the Phillies won it in 9… there was no middle ground… which is horse shit
"When you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys - there's no better feeling than to have that done." - Matt Stairs 10/13/08
Gold... Pure Gold...
Let me be the first to apologize
That BJ can walk on water… it was a clear advantage… and if the Rays end up winning the series.. it will be tarnished for years to come.
9=1
by mrichardkent on Oct 28, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
So you’re saying that running in straight lines on wet ground is just as difficult as fielding batted balls on wet ground?
Sorry, but no.
No. I'm not saying that it's more difficult than fielding.
But rounding a third base that’s basically in a lake and beating a throw at home is a hell of feat.
and yes… I know the ball was wet, I know that the wet infield slowed the ball’s progression to the plate.
I’m just trying to give some credit to the Rays for extending this series…
9=1
by mrichardkent on Oct 28, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s why they have cleats on you moron. It might have been wet, but he has shoes designed specifically designed to dig into the turf in most conditions. Fielders, conversely, don’t have special throwing aids that allow them to grip baseballs that are slippery, water logged dead fishes.
Count me among the people who, all things aside, was not impressed by Melvin Upton’s magical ability to “run on water” with half inch spikes on his shoes. On the other hand, we should be applauding Pat Burrells ability to field Pena’s hit and deliver a half decent throw to the catcher. More than half the time in those conditions, that throw ends up being horribly off target.
the point isn’t whether fielding is more difficult in the rain than batting or running or whatever, the point is that it isn’t fair, either way, to have half an inning played in this. even if pitching and fielding in the rain is exactly the same as it is on a hot, sunny day, and the rays still scored that one run, that doesn’t mean it is fair that only they got to bat in those conditions.
I don't live in Philadelphia and (obviously) wasn't at the game.
I understand the principle complaint about handling the terrible conditions over that half of the inning, but I have to ask 2 things:
First, what information can you provide, other than your own personal opinion, that catching and throwing are more difficult to do in wet weather then hitting and running? And when justifying throwing, keep in mind that you have a pitcher on the mound still running fastballs up to the plate at 90+ MPH with teriffic location.
Second, are you telling me that the difference between the bottom of the fifth and the top of the sixth were so monumental weatherwise that it turned Hamels into a pitching machine and replaced all of the filders hands with blunt, rounded knobs? It’s not like the bottom of the fifth was some kind of glorious sunny day with temperatures in the 70s.
Hamels said that he couldn’t grip the ball for his changeup in the sixth (but could in the fifth). He also had no control over his curveball. So, he was essentially reduced to a one-pitch pitcher. That’s a huge disadvantage for the team in the field.
As for the difference between the bottom of the fifth and the top of the sixth — it’s a huge one. The Rays got 6 times at the plate in the weather last night; the Phillies only 5.
by David S. Cohen on Oct 28, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
let me clarify
I see what you’re saying about Hamels not being able to throw his pitches in the sixth that he was able to throw in the fifth. That makes sense. Saying that the Rays got 1 more set of at bats in bad weather is not. You guys are harping about the bad weather in the top of the sixth, not the top of the 1st; I’m comparing the top of the 6th to the bottom of the 5th, which from my TV the only difference appeared to be some puddling in the dirt on the infield.
The top of the fifth was as bad as the bottom of the fifth. But the bottom of the sixth was worse – remember, there was about a 10 to 15 minute delay between the fifth and sixth while the grounds crew worked on the field. The conditions deteriorated a lot during that time. The Rays got to bat in those deteriorated conditions. The Phillies didn’t.
by David S. Cohen on Oct 28, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to assume you mean the top of the 6th instead of the bottom of the 6th, since they haven't played the bottom of the 6th yet.
I just don’t see it. The top of the 6th was worse then the bottom of the 5th yes, but again the big difference appears to be on the infield clay which would be detrimental to men on base and infielders, not so much the grass in the outfield. There’s no way to know if Rollins gets Upton out at 1st in time if the turf and clay is dry. Just keep in mind that the Phillies managed to get 2 outs in those conditions before Upton got on, including a Crawford groundout to Howard. I’ll agree that it would have been more fair for the Phillies to get a chance to play the bottom of the 6th in that weather, but it just sounds like the people here are already building up a screwjob argument in case the Phillies lose. If the Phillies lose this game and somehow manage to lose the WS, this isn’t going to be the reason why it happened.
Aye, there's the rub
I’ll agree that it would have been more fair for the Phillies to get a chance to play the bottom of the 6th in that weather,
by David S. Cohen on Oct 29, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Regardless of whether the advantage goes one way or the other (I tend to think the batting team has the upper hand, but whatever), both teams should either have to play in it, meaning they should have played the bottom of the 6th as well, or neither team should, meaning they should have wiped out the top of the 6th after suspending the game.
I tend to prefer the latter, but as a Phillies phan I certainly am not unbiased.
have you ran in cleats caked with wet clay??? not easy.
and I don’t believe last night qualified as “most conditions”
9=1
by mrichardkent on Oct 28, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice article over at BP from Joe Sheehan:
Tschida made the case that the situation was fair to all: “It turns out we have pretty identical line scores at the end of the day, and it didn’t seem worse for one team or the other. What’s fair is fair.” That is where things fall apart. Tschida is absolutely wrong about this. What happened last night was completely unfair to the Phillies. The line scores are not identical. The Rays have six numbers next to their name, the Phillies five. The Phillies had to pitch and play defense in the worst of the weather, and the Rays didn’t. That aspect of last night, the timing of the decision to call the game in the context of what Selig said afterwards, is the big mistake.
Couldn’t agree more.
Ray Ratto of the SF Chronicle puts it succinctly: even though Bud’s decision might not be so bad, he explains it and justifies it so poorly that the mind boggles and he infuriates us.
I pretty much agree with this. Bud’s not much of a man. You could immediately tell, from the first words he uttered at his press conference yesterday, that his #1 goal was to shift blame (to the weather forecasters). Like a whiny little kid.
Just say what you did and take responsibility for it. The fact that his decision here was probably understandable just makes his inability to do that even more distasteful.
I wouldn’t have wanted to win on a shortened game. It would have been too polarizing a thing even amongst Philly fans to win a Championship with an asterisk attached. Sure we would all take any kind of trophy with a smile, but there are the purists amongst even us who would have been dissapointed for a long time in a called final game.
That said, the thing I hate most about this scenario is that the bottom of the 6th will allow the Rays (likely Price) to pitch a dry ball from a dry mound while the top of the 6th provided not close to those conditions for Cole. All I keep reading from Philly haters is “well that’s life.” I am suggesting that no, it’s inherently unfair for two pitchers in the same inning to pitch on different mounds. That doesn’t mean I think they ought to have suspended the game prior to the 6th. In theory it would have been just as fair for them just to finish the 6th. Even if the Phils had grouded out three straight times it would have felt more fair.
I can’t believe the attitude Rays fans are taking. Technically robbing Cole of a start is just as asterisk creating, in my mind, if the Rays somehow pull out the series than if Game 5 had been called prematurely and the Phils crowned after the 5th.
don't blame Rays fans
It’s not our fault you don’t have a great field like the Trop that would have kept everyone happy ;-)
You are correct that it isn’t really fair that the game was stopped when it was. The “line scores being similar” argument was stupid, given the different number of innings. However, ask yourself this one….as a Phils fan, would you have felt it was more fair to have a 2 day rain delay on a game where you were leading? That would seem even crazier.
I don’t think there was any good decision that could have been made. Easy to say that they shouldn’t have played the game at all, but the weather forecast wasn’t conclusive that they wouldnt’ be able to finish. Two things that should have been done, in my eyes: Tell everyone by the 5th inning that the game would have to be finished in case of delay. Started at 8pm, not 8:30.
There are a lot of ideas and commentary being kicked around that would have taken clairvoyance to anticipate and so can’t be second guessed now. Starting the game at all being one of them. MLB has learned, the absolute worst way, that if they even suspect AT ALL similar weather conditions in the future they ought just call the game off.
I still think letting them play the bottom of the 6th was the easiest (not very easy, but still easiest) decision to make. I’ll admit, if you check the comments from last night’s thread I was the first to, out of frustration, demand they suspend midway through the 6th so that nobody got hurt. Now, with a clear although still very tired head I can see…. Ask any pitcher in the series: Those awful conditions…do they benefit pitchers or hitters? The answer is undeniably the hitters. The best decision would have been to finish the inning.
Now I just want a Rays fan to admit in as many words that the Rays got the better of the decision which was ultimately made.
yes
The Rays got the better of the decision.
If they would have played the bottom of the 6th, the Phils had scored (as you think would be likely given the weather), and then the game had been suspended – the Rays would have gotten the better of that decision too. Talk about unprecedented.
If Hamels would have batted to start the bottom of the 6th and gotten hurt because of the conditions, then what would you be saying? He almost got hurt during his last AB.
I’m a Phillies fan. Naturally I don’t actually believe we would have scored in the bottom of the 6th. I am just saying that since the advantage goes to the hitters it would have made sense to finish off the inning. It just would have felt more fair, but I realize I’m second guessing everything and this was not an easy decision, nor was it calculated and intentionally made to hurt the Phils.
As for your other point.. Cole Hamels does not know this “hurt” you speak of, but he knows that rain terminates the F3 changeup function of Pitchbot 2.0
Did you develop this block of code?
You should have just turned on rethrows of the bug catch instead of doing an error dump; it would allow you to work around those intermittant situatio…whatever you get the joke.
WHAT??? YOU MAKE NO SENSE.
SO first you complain that they postpone the game which removes your ace… THEN you complain that they kept the game going forcing your ace to pitch? HUH? Did you want them to just call the game based on the rain? Win the World Series that way? NO ONE on the Phillies wanted the game to end like that.
By not forcing the Rays to pitch and play the field in the bottom of the 6th was an advantage to us? Come on. It’s much harder to hit with a wet bat. Plus, almost impossible for your home run hitters to hit one out. If anything, They are lucky Upton didn’t get injured running the bases in those conditions.
Plus, everyone here seems to assume the Rays were eventually going to come back and tie it. I guess you all believe in our Rays!!
Think about this logically for a few seconds unbiased. Why is it harder to hit with a wet bat in your mind? Go try swinging a bat in the rain with wet hands and then try throwing a baseball with wet hands. Tell me which way your mechanics are altered.
Cole Hamels was unable to throw his changeup becuase he couldn’t grip it. That’s his best pitch. How can you claim that was fair that? Upton had to run in straight lines. The Rays scored because, 1) Rollins couldn’t field Upton’s groundball (a play he makes more often than not), 2) Ruiz could not throw him out, probably also rain related, 3) Burrell couldn’t throw Upton out at home, partly because he couldn’t charge the ball and partly because the ball died the second it hit the ground. You can argue that there were conditions that hurt the Rays too, but clearly the ones affecting the Phillies dominated, because the Rays scored.
The complaints of removing Cole and making him pitch are not contradictory if you realize that the game could have been played at a different time. Cole Hamels is an ace because of his change up. Otherwise, he’s just a guy who throws fastballs, and he threw slower than usual ones at that.
The umpires said the mound and batters box were in better shape than the infield. You weren’t at the game, I’m sure, so you didn’t really see the infield— there were puddles that you could see from hundreds of feet away.
It’s not a matter of “believing in your Rays” or whatever. It’s a matter of arbitrary stopping points. You randomize the outcome of the game and stop it when it’s re-tied. It’s a statistically biased way to collect data, and it’s a biased way to run a baseball game. Your own manager expressed joy that Hamels was out of the game as a result of delay. Our manager refused to address the media for nearly 24 hours. Clearly, both managers disagree about who was favored more by these weather decisions.
This game should never have been started. Bud Selig does not understand the difference between an expected median and a distribution. Obviously, the expected median amount of rain dictated the conditions would be barely playable. But that probably left a 30-40% chance of something like this happening and that’s ridiculous.
You know what gets entirely tiresome
“Fans” who don’t show up during a regular season but show up for a playoff series – and suddenly are die hards that support the team….the devil rays average actual attendance was probably under 10K in the regular season (don’t give me your paid BS)
Win or lose – no one will attend the rays regular season games next year any more than they did this year – thus proving that baseball REALLY can’t succeed long term in florida.
It’s not what you do in the playoffs you wanna bes – it’s what you do year in and year out that defines fandom and team support – really – most rays fans are a joke and an insult to anyone who actually does care about a sports team with any real true emotion.
Oh, and the trop is a festering piece of garbage whose astro turf will shorten many a career…
by jemagee on Oct 28, 2008 9:42 PM EDT reply actions
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