Utley claims third straight Silver Slugger Award

by WholeCamels on Nov 13, 2008 4:39 PM EST Comment 25 comments

No link yet, but Chase Utley has been named the 2008 National League Silver Slugger award winner at second base. That's three straight seasons for Utley now.

Chase is rapidly vaulting up the list of all-time great second basemen. Certainly not the rarified air of Morgan or Hornsby, but he's getting close to the second tier, I'd say.

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here's the link

From P-Pravda, not the Green Boys (BBWAA)… it just lists the winners….

by dajafi on Nov 13, 2008 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think the ceiling for Chase Utley is the second best second baseman of all time (not a bad ceiling). My thought is that Hornsby is the only guy he won’t surpass when it’s all said and done.

Steve Jeltz
.210/.308/.268
"If you condensed everything I ever did in my career into one game, it looks decent"

by Steve Jeltz on Nov 13, 2008 5:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Joe Morgan?

by taco pal on Nov 14, 2008 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was only forecasting his ridiculously high ceiling. I’m not saying it’s a guarantee (or even probable) that he surpasses Joe…only that it’s possible. Hornsby was the only guy I was definitively ruling out.

Steve Jeltz
.210/.308/.268
"If you condensed everything I ever did in my career into one game, it looks decent"

by Steve Jeltz on Nov 14, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand. My view is just that Morgan was so great that Chase won’t be able to reach him even at his ceiling – which of course is no insult.

I do think he could surpass Joe as a commentator. And Chase seems like he would be terrible at it.

by taco pal on Nov 14, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

His ceiling, I suspect (if EVERYTHING goes right for him), is probably 4th all-time, behind Hornsby, Collins, and Morgan (and that would require “passing” Gehringer, Lajoie, Jackie Robinson, Alomar, Biggio, Sandberg…).

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 14, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Best four seasons by OPS+
Utley:
145 (age 28)
135 (29)
132 (26)
125 (27)

Morgan:
187 (32)
169 (31)
157 (29)
159 (30)

Utley has an outside chance to have a better peak than Morgan. The good news for Utley is that Morgan’s best seasons all were after his age-29 season (Utley’s current age). However, Chase has no shot to surpass him in career value. Keep in mind Joe was a regular by age 21, whereas Utley wasn’t until he was 26.

by phatj on Nov 14, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Personally I think Morgan might have been greater than Hornsby. I know Hornsby had better stats, but anyone who played before integration should get docked at least 20% or so.

by taco pal on Nov 14, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Personally I dock Joe Morgan for his post playing career idioicy

by jemagee on Nov 14, 2008 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, you shouldn’t. Those are two entirely separate topics.

by taco pal on Nov 17, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True

But I have to admit that it’s hard for me to emotionally separate Morgan the ballplayer from Morgan the sportscaster.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

One thing that may help in this regard is that Morgan himself doesn’t believe that he was quite that great of a second baseman. So if you say that Joe the Ballplayer was the greatest of all time, which he very well may have been, you simultaneously contradict Joe the Broadcaster.

by taco pal on Nov 17, 2008 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a great paradox.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well Joe the broadcaster is usually wrong – so why can’t he be wrong here?

by jemagee on Nov 18, 2008 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, that’s what I said.

by taco pal on Nov 18, 2008 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tell that to all the people who think Larry Bowa (and Mo cheeks) are good manager/coaches primarily because they were on championship winning teams in Philadelphia.

by jemagee on Nov 17, 2008 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll deal with those people if and when I encounter them. It’s exactly the same stupidity, regardless of which direction it flows.

The jury is still out on Mo, incidentally, though that’s neither here nor there.

by taco pal on Nov 17, 2008 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The jury may be out for you but for many the jury is in – for me the jury was in before he was even hired, thought it was a bad hire, and so far Mo is proving me right year in and year out (don’t talk to me about last year going 2 games under 500 and performing exactly as expected and needing and obscenely strong finish after a piss poor start)

by jemagee on Nov 18, 2008 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not particularly interested in getting into a Sixers-related debate on a Phillies blog. Let’s just say that if we stipulate that the Sixers “performed exactly as expected” last year, performing exactly as expected for a single season doesn’t strike me as strong evidence that a coach is either a good hire or a bad hire. As such, I don’t see much of a basis for your claim that he’s “proven you right year in and year out.”

by taco pal on Nov 18, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you know how long Mo cheeks has been a head coach of the sixers, or in the NBA?

by jemagee on Nov 18, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose this is intended to be some sort of rhetorical question, though it’s very unclear what point you’re trying to make with it, seeing as how an examination of Cheeks’ coaching record does not in any way support the argument you made previously. Anyway: yes, I am fully aware of Maurice Cheeks’ coaching record. Now maybe you can get to your substantive point if you have one.

by taco pal on Nov 19, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My point was he should never have been hired – yet somehow they gave him an extra year after last season – so somehow someone thinks last years ‘performance’ was worth an extra year on a contract as opposed to the perfect situation to fire him.

by jemagee on Nov 19, 2008 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

they guy was the lynch pin of the phillies offense. when others were slumping he was the one who could be counted on to make things happen. granted the slumpers (howard, burrell) did come through when it counted but chase was solid as a rock.

www.WorldF-ingChampions.com
www.VintageUnis.com

by sixrfan on Nov 16, 2008 6:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Utley went through some horrendous slumps this year, there was that 0-for-29 (I think) as well as another 0-for-20+ I believe.

That doesn’t really take away from how awesome he is in general, but to implicate Howard and Burrell as “slumpers” while exonerating Utley is pretty far off the mark.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 16, 2008 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There is no doubt that Utley is a run-creating machine. We can only wonder, however, about the trade off “back in the day” betwixt offense and defensive skill. Utley is an elite craftsman on both counts a was Joe Morgan and Raja. But, given improved managerial knowledge of the value of the trade-offs of defense vs offense, intertemporal comparisons of these three shall always remain a puzzle. Horsby prevailed when second basemen were a defensive necessity and and, and only in elite cases, an offensive benefit. Things had not much changed by Morgan’s era. Soriano changed our perspective whether you like it or not. If a player overcomes his defensive shortcomings with sufficient offensive skill/power (now measured buy +OPS) he is worth (logarithmically) his weight in gold!

You know, Philadelphia. It goes back to the beginning. So, you know, fans have a lot of history, and they love their teams up here.
--Rafael Palmeiro

by AllenFan on Nov 28, 2008 6:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs