Utley claims third straight Silver Slugger Award
No link yet, but Chase Utley has been named the 2008 National League Silver Slugger award winner at second base. That's three straight seasons for Utley now.
Chase is rapidly vaulting up the list of all-time great second basemen. Certainly not the rarified air of Morgan or Hornsby, but he's getting close to the second tier, I'd say.
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here's the link
From P-Pravda, not the Green Boys (BBWAA)… it just lists the winners….
by dajafi on
Nov 13, 2008 4:41 PM EST
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I think the ceiling for Chase Utley is the second best second baseman of all time (not a bad ceiling). My thought is that Hornsby is the only guy he won’t surpass when it’s all said and done.
Steve Jeltz
.210/.308/.268
"If you condensed everything I ever did in my career into one game, it looks decent"
by Steve Jeltz on
Nov 13, 2008 5:31 PM EST
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I was only forecasting his ridiculously high ceiling. I’m not saying it’s a guarantee (or even probable) that he surpasses Joe…only that it’s possible. Hornsby was the only guy I was definitively ruling out.
Steve Jeltz
.210/.308/.268
"If you condensed everything I ever did in my career into one game, it looks decent"
by Steve Jeltz on
Nov 14, 2008 11:39 AM EST
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I understand. My view is just that Morgan was so great that Chase won’t be able to reach him even at his ceiling – which of course is no insult.
I do think he could surpass Joe as a commentator. And Chase seems like he would be terrible at it.
by taco pal on
Nov 14, 2008 11:47 AM EST
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His ceiling, I suspect (if EVERYTHING goes right for him), is probably 4th all-time, behind Hornsby, Collins, and Morgan (and that would require “passing” Gehringer, Lajoie, Jackie Robinson, Alomar, Biggio, Sandberg…).
http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?
by WholeCamels on
Nov 14, 2008 12:09 PM EST
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Best four seasons by OPS+
Utley:
145 (age 28)
135 (29)
132 (26)
125 (27)
Morgan:
187 (32)
169 (31)
157 (29)
159 (30)
Utley has an outside chance to have a better peak than Morgan. The good news for Utley is that Morgan’s best seasons all were after his age-29 season (Utley’s current age). However, Chase has no shot to surpass him in career value. Keep in mind Joe was a regular by age 21, whereas Utley wasn’t until he was 26.
by phatj on
Nov 14, 2008 12:56 PM EST
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Personally I think Morgan might have been greater than Hornsby. I know Hornsby had better stats, but anyone who played before integration should get docked at least 20% or so.
by taco pal on
Nov 14, 2008 2:30 PM EST
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Personally I dock Joe Morgan for his post playing career idioicy
by jemagee on
Nov 14, 2008 9:50 PM EST
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Well, you shouldn’t. Those are two entirely separate topics.
by taco pal on
Nov 17, 2008 11:40 AM EST
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True
But I have to admit that it’s hard for me to emotionally separate Morgan the ballplayer from Morgan the sportscaster.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?
by WholeCamels on
Nov 17, 2008 11:51 AM EST
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One thing that may help in this regard is that Morgan himself doesn’t believe that he was quite that great of a second baseman. So if you say that Joe the Ballplayer was the greatest of all time, which he very well may have been, you simultaneously contradict Joe the Broadcaster.
by taco pal on
Nov 17, 2008 11:22 PM EST
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It’s a great paradox.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?
by WholeCamels on
Nov 17, 2008 11:25 PM EST
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Well Joe the broadcaster is usually wrong – so why can’t he be wrong here?
by jemagee on
Nov 18, 2008 9:44 AM EST
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Tell that to all the people who think Larry Bowa (and Mo cheeks) are good manager/coaches primarily because they were on championship winning teams in Philadelphia.
by jemagee on
Nov 17, 2008 9:45 PM EST
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I’ll deal with those people if and when I encounter them. It’s exactly the same stupidity, regardless of which direction it flows.
The jury is still out on Mo, incidentally, though that’s neither here nor there.
by taco pal on
Nov 17, 2008 11:14 PM EST
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The jury may be out for you but for many the jury is in – for me the jury was in before he was even hired, thought it was a bad hire, and so far Mo is proving me right year in and year out (don’t talk to me about last year going 2 games under 500 and performing exactly as expected and needing and obscenely strong finish after a piss poor start)
by jemagee on
Nov 18, 2008 9:43 AM EST
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I’m not particularly interested in getting into a Sixers-related debate on a Phillies blog. Let’s just say that if we stipulate that the Sixers “performed exactly as expected” last year, performing exactly as expected for a single season doesn’t strike me as strong evidence that a coach is either a good hire or a bad hire. As such, I don’t see much of a basis for your claim that he’s “proven you right year in and year out.”
by taco pal on
Nov 18, 2008 11:34 AM EST
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Do you know how long Mo cheeks has been a head coach of the sixers, or in the NBA?
by jemagee on
Nov 18, 2008 8:07 PM EST
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I suppose this is intended to be some sort of rhetorical question, though it’s very unclear what point you’re trying to make with it, seeing as how an examination of Cheeks’ coaching record does not in any way support the argument you made previously. Anyway: yes, I am fully aware of Maurice Cheeks’ coaching record. Now maybe you can get to your substantive point if you have one.
by taco pal on
Nov 19, 2008 11:11 AM EST
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My point was he should never have been hired – yet somehow they gave him an extra year after last season – so somehow someone thinks last years ‘performance’ was worth an extra year on a contract as opposed to the perfect situation to fire him.
by jemagee on
Nov 19, 2008 9:54 PM EST
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they guy was the lynch pin of the phillies offense. when others were slumping he was the one who could be counted on to make things happen. granted the slumpers (howard, burrell) did come through when it counted but chase was solid as a rock.
by sixrfan on
Nov 16, 2008 6:55 PM EST
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Utley went through some horrendous slumps this year, there was that 0-for-29 (I think) as well as another 0-for-20+ I believe.
That doesn’t really take away from how awesome he is in general, but to implicate Howard and Burrell as “slumpers” while exonerating Utley is pretty far off the mark.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?
by WholeCamels on
Nov 16, 2008 7:03 PM EST
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There is no doubt that Utley is a run-creating machine. We can only wonder, however, about the trade off “back in the day” betwixt offense and defensive skill. Utley is an elite craftsman on both counts a was Joe Morgan and Raja. But, given improved managerial knowledge of the value of the trade-offs of defense vs offense, intertemporal comparisons of these three shall always remain a puzzle. Horsby prevailed when second basemen were a defensive necessity and and, and only in elite cases, an offensive benefit. Things had not much changed by Morgan’s era. Soriano changed our perspective whether you like it or not. If a player overcomes his defensive shortcomings with sufficient offensive skill/power (now measured buy +OPS) he is worth (logarithmically) his weight in gold!
You know, Philadelphia. It goes back to the beginning. So, you know, fans have a lot of history, and they love their teams up here.
--Rafael Palmeiro
by AllenFan on
Nov 28, 2008 6:39 PM EST
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