Solution for Left Field
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 10:49 AM EST
33 comments
Let me preface this by saying that I love what PAt Burrell has done for the Phillies. He is one of very few players capable of hitting 30 homers and driving in 100 year after year. I think his defense has improved. Unfortunately, it does not look like the Phillies will be bringing him back. My solution is.............Delmon Young. I have read in multiple places that he is a trade possibility. He is a right handed outfield with 20+ homerun potential. He has speed, a canon arm, and bats for average(.300). He does not have exceptional patience at the plate but, he is only 22. Thoughts?
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Delmon Young is 22 with 4 years of arbitration. Rivera is an ok player but will cost much more and Felipe Lopez is just terrible.
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Possible downsides: maturity (this is the guy who threw a bat at an ump in the minors, and basically talked himself out of town in Tampa), defense (arm notwithstanding, he’s a wretched left fielder according to most metrics).
by phatj on Dec 5, 2008 10:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Maturity is an issue but, it is for most 20 year olds. He is a decent left fielder with much better speed than Burrell. I haven’t watched many of his games but I would be curious if many of his errors are due to diving after balls he should let drop in front of him. IF Charlie is a great manager of personalities, this guy could be his greatest project since manny.
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I’d rather have Cholly’s “greatest project” be Milton Bradley.
Steve Jeltz
.210/.308/.268
"If you condensed everything I ever did in my career into one game, it looks decent"
by Steve Jeltz on Dec 5, 2008 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love Bradley but, he can’t stay on the field.
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you have a problem with Delmon Young because of ‘maturity’ – but you’d be ok with Milton Bradley?
by jemagee on Dec 5, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t have a problem with Young’s maturity. I said most 20 year olds are immature.
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Delmon Young would probably not cost much to get (fortunately the twins manager is stupid and publicly speaks about who is valuable and who isn’t, his GM must not be a mused) and has a nice upside, it’s the kind of smart inexpensive move a good franchise would make – if he’s a pain in the ass – send him away – but the cost would be minimal and the upside could be huge.
It makes a lot of sense to take the risk
Therefore, the phillies won’t do it.
by jemagee on Dec 5, 2008 11:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gardenhire isn’t “stupid,” but he puts a high value on chemistry and good-guy considerations, as does the whole Twinkies organization. And it was probably imprudent to say that he didn’t think Young would be a starter next season… but not much more so than all the times Arbuckle hung our prospects out to dry (“Cardenas has no place to play… Donald doesn’t have enough power to play third…”).
That said, I absolutely love the idea of trading for Young and would happily part with Donald plus to get him. The guy’s top Baseball-Reference comp is Carl Yastrzemski, and has other Hall of Famers and high talent guys in his top 10. Between the professionalism of our lineup regulars and the hitting tutelage of Manuel and Thompson, he could be a huge asset for the Phils.
by dajafi on Dec 5, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My bad, Gardenhires comments were stupid, making it publicly known like that would possibly drive down whatever trade value Young has…if the phils can get him and then use the money intended for pat on a better right field option that’d be nice too
by jemagee on Dec 5, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Werth had a career year. Young would take away the chance of having 2 different platoons in the outfield. Also, the Phils are not going to pick up 2 outfielders. This would allow them to spend the money on a top pitcher though.
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Two platoons
Having two platoons in the OF isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Platoons, if well-constructed, can be a great way to get near-star-level performance from a position on the cheap while simultaneously strengthening the bench.
The trouble is finding the right players.
by phatj on Dec 5, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly! IT is tough enough to find the players to fill one productive platoon. But, to have 2 successful platoons is extremely unlikely.
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Two platoons is not bad – and can work – but i still recall when the phillies didn’t take advantage of the bell-polanco-utley troika and work out a creative platoon that maximized the out put of a placido polanco while making sure david bell hurt you less than he should. I don’t think even with a new manager they’d be much better at it this time.
Werth – as I understand it – has always had the talent but had health issues – last year was his ‘healthiest’ season of his career was it not? Not something i want to depend on – and i just don’t want geoff jenkins starting any more than he has to…
If they add Lowe, do they really need to sign ANOTHER starting pitcher? I don’t think so.
by jemagee on Dec 5, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe would be enough. I don’t think they will wind up signing Lowe. But, adding a cheap alternative in the infield would help them add more money for Lowe’s deal.
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still recall this, and I’m still bitter about it. The thing to do would have been to trade Bell, who was coming off the best season of his career in ’04, for whatever you could get for him, and just let Polanco handle third while leaving Utley at second.
Hell, Polanco could still be there for the Phils now.
by dajafi on Dec 5, 2008 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They probably wouldn’t have gotten much for Bell, so the choice was between trading Polanco or eating Bell’s salary.
That said, the correct decision would have been to eat Bell’s salary.
by taco pal on Dec 5, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What ever happened to Matt Murton from the Cubs?
by taco pal on Dec 5, 2008 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Matt Murton does not even compare to Delmon Young but, he was traded to Oakland in the Harden deal.
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, career he hits Righties .287 and LEfties .306
by schrifty on Dec 5, 2008 12:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If he could be had for a modest package I’d be all for bringing Young in (by modest I mean replacement level talent and/or prospects in the low minors… not sure I’d want to include someone like Donald or Carrasco). Otherwise I’d prefer they go the Rivera / Baldelli route and have a LF platoon. On Young, the more that comes out on him the more skepticism you have to have. The following two recent posts are pretty telling:
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/10/8/631291/what-in-the-world-happened
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/fantasy/article/breakout-party-delmon-young/
by sprucemoose on Dec 5, 2008 4:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I understand the pitfalls with Young, the character concerns, and the somewhat underwhelming performance thus far. That being said… we’re talking about a kid who cruised through the minors out of high school in less than 3 years. Some people are writing him off, but he’s still only 22 years old.
If Young could be had for Donald and a second tier prospect (someone like Bastardo or Garcia), then you have to give some serious thought to such a deal. It will probably be an even trade as is, and if Young begins to fulfill any of his potential, it could be a serious win for the Phils.
by PhillyFriar on Dec 6, 2008 4:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sounds reasonable in theory. But none of us have any idea how much the deal would actually cost us.
by taco pal on Dec 8, 2008 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the worrying thing. Gardenhire’s marginalizing of Young means his price shouldn’t be too prohibitive, but he’s obviously still highly regarded in baseball circles, so we can’t be sure.
The other thing that’s worrying — and I saw someone point this out somewhere else, but I can’t recall where — is that Young was absolutely wretched in the field last year. Fangraphs had him at a -18.4 UZR (ultimate zone rating) in 2008, making him the worst LF in baseball behind even Burrell and his -10.8 UZR. But here’s the odd thing: in 2007, Young was basically a league average RF, checking in at a -0.4 UZR. One possible explanation: playing next to Carlos Gomez and his freakish range limited the sheer number of plays Young could make.
by PhillyFriar on Dec 8, 2008 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The comments to that post are slightly less stupid or offensive than I would have expected. I did, however, get a kick out of this one:
Posted by wcgiles 02:40 PM, 12/08/2008
Delmon Young has a TON of talent … but, without a doubt, alot of head problems too. If we had a stricter manager, someone who didn’t coddle players instead of teach them to play hardnosed baseball (someone like Larry Bowa), maybe I’d take the risk, but with Cholly at the helm it seems like a dangerous waste of time.
by taco pal on Dec 8, 2008 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I find it fascinating that some people still pine for Larry Bowa as a manage – after TWO failed jobs – not just one :)
by jemagee on Dec 8, 2008 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
now there's also this to think about:
St. Louis is trying to turn its abundance of outfielders into bullpen help.
In addition to talking to Atlanta about outfielder Rick Ankiel, the Cardinals have talked to Philadelphia. The Phillies, who are unlikely to bring back Pat Burrell, would prefer a right-handed bat. The Cardinals’ left-handed hitting outfielders, Ankiel and Skip Schumaker, are popular with other clubs.
Ryan Ludwick would be the best fit for the Phillies, but the Phils might not want to break up their bullpen and the Cardinals would want a top-flight reliever in return. —Gerry Fraley
by char6587 on Dec 9, 2008 3:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh no – don’t pay too much for ludwick – he scares me – and he’s not worth a top flight reliever – i’m not sure he’s worth durbin
by jemagee on Dec 9, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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