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Semi-Sweet Relief

It's been somewhat forgotten in the euphoria of the Phillies improbable late charge to the 2007 division title, but through four months of last season, the team's biggest problem was unquestionably the bullpen. Injuries to Tom Gordon, Brett Myers, Ryan Madson and others, stomach-turning incompetence from the likes of Antonio Alfonseca and--I still can't really believe it--Jose Mesa, and the always-present danger that Charlie Manuel would decide it was time to see what Anderson Garcia could do all rendered perilous the late innings of games through early August.

Then everything fell into place. In 20 September appearances, J.C. Romero put up an ERA of 0.00. Brett Myers, Tom Gordon and Geoff Geary were all almost as good. Even the likes of Francisco Rosario and Clay Condrey came up huge down the stretch. The team's biggest weakness was, when it mattered most, its greatest strength.

What does this mean for 2008? My guess is that the bullpen will be neither as bad as it was through most of 2007, nor as strong as it was in that season's final month.

Star-divide


The cast of characters looks to be similar to the group that completed last season, with the obvious difference of a new leading man. November's acquisition of former Astros closer Brad Lidge allowed the Phillies to return Myers to the rotation, where he presented a better (and cheaper) alternative to any starter on the free-agent market. Over his career, the 31 year-old Lidge has put up cartoonishly great numbers some years (in 2004, his 157 strikeouts ranked 15th in the NL... in 94 innings!) and Jorge Julio numbers (tons of strikeouts, but an ERA over 5) others.

The concern about Lidge is his psyche, which purportedly suffered permanent damage when Albert Pujols took him deep to win Game Five of the 2005 National League Championship Series. (Usually forgotten in this telling is that Lidge's Astros won the next game, and the series.) His home runs allowed are a little high for a closer, and OFJOAB won't help with that. But if ever a manager seemed well suited to buck up a closer's shaky confidence, it's Charlie Manuel. My guess is that Lidge will be just fine, turning in a great last season before free agency and leaving the Phillies with two nice picks in the June 2009 draft. Baseball Prospectus' PECOTA system projects the following line for Lidge in 2008: 4-4, 3.54, 17 SV, 60.2 IP, 1.27 WHIP.

J.C. Romero and Tom Gordon are slated to be the setup men for Lidge. Both guys come with risks: age and injury with Gordon, inconsistency for Romero. Though he contributed more than his share of nightmare moments in a rough 2007 (3-2, 6 saves, 4.73 ERA), Gordon has been so good for so long--you have to go back to 1996 to find his last ERA over 4--that the questions with him are all physical. He's 40 and pitching with a slight tear in his shoulder--not good for a guy whose signature offering is the hammer curve. The first news out of camp is good on Gordon, but he'll have to be handled with care. BP projects him for 2-2, 4.26, 6 SV, 40.2 IP, 1.37 WHIP.

Romero did more than anyone last year to burnish Pat Gillick's "Still Got It!" post-2001 Mariners reputation. Picked up off waivers from the Red Sox last June, the 31-year old lefty put up an absurd ERA+ of 373 for the Phillies thanks mostly to his uncanny power to direct batted baseballs into gloves (15 hits allowed in 36 innings). Unfortunately, that's pretty much the definition of "unsustainable." Romero was rewarded last winter with a three-year, $12 million contract, a deal that represented fair market value yet still looks like one the Phillies will regret. Every season in MLB, one or two relievers put up great seasons you couldn't have gotten odds on in Las Vegas; generally they revert back to pumpkins soon thereafter. That said, it's not like Romero's been a bum his whole previous career; with the Twins from 2002-2005, he put up three well above-average seasons in four. If that's the guy the Phillies picked up, he'll be fine. PECOTA forecasts a 2-2 record, 4.45 ERA, 2 saves, 45 IP, 1.59 WHIP.

The fourth guaranteed reliever is righty Ryan Madson. The 27 year-old gets little love despite an outstanding 2007 season cut short by injury: Madson pitched to a 3.05 ERA and 151 ERA+,  holding opponents scoreless in his final 8 appearances (12.1 IP). A meme has emerged that Madson isn't cut out for late-inning work, but he came in for the 8th or 9th inning in seven of those last eight scoreless appearances. The fastball/changeup specialist hasn't convinced PECOTA, which foresees a 3-3, 4.33 campaign in 56 innings for 2008.

Off-season pickup Chad Durbin is theoretically competing for the 5th-starter slot, but it's much more likely he ends up in the bullpen sharing middle-relief duties with Madson. After a mostly terrible first few years in the big leagues, Durbin did adequate work for the 2007 Tigers, putting up a 4.18 ERA in 28 innings as a reliever. (As a starter, he pitched to a 4.88 ERA in 99.2 IP). BP sees a 3-4, 5.31 season in 59.2 IP (including 6 starts--presumably not very good ones) for his 2008.

The two remaining bullpen spots are up for grabs as we sit here six weeks before the first game of the season (!). My guess is that the last two slots go to a hard-throwing strikeout guy and a second lefty, respectively--and if nobody overwhelms, Clay Condrey, who fits neither description, comes back to rack up more service time. Candidates for the former include Francisco Rosario, Joe Bisenius, J.D. Durbin, and Rule 5 pickup Lincoln Holdzkom. Here are their PECOTA projections:

Rosario: 2-2, 4.43, 43 IP, 1.43 WHIP
Bisenius: 3-4, 5.74, 56 IP, 1.79 WHIP
J.D. Durbin: 3-4, 5.26, 65.2 IP (9 starts), 1.59 WHIP
Holdzkom: (no projection)

The lefties include ex-Pirate Shane Youman, Rule 5er Travis Blackley, and Fabio Castro; Mike Zagurski, the rotund southpaw who pitched with the team last season, will begin 2008 rehabbing from the hamstring tear he suffered late last year, but we'll throw him into the mix too.

Youman: (no projection)
Blackley: 5-7, 5.88, 101 IP (15 starts), 1.61 WHIP
Castro: 3-4, 5.17, 61 IP, 1.63 WHIP
Zagurski: 2-2, 4.64, 36.2 IP, 1.51 WHIP

And finally, Condrey: 2-2, 4.76, 44.1 IP, 1.51 WHIP

Adding this all up, it looks like a middle-of-the-road bullpen. Lidge should be a solid closer; strikeout rate is key, and he's got one of the best. Between Gordon, Romero and Madson, an expectation of 1.5 good seasons (someone will miss half the year or so) seems reasonable. The numbers for the guys who will fill bullpen slots 5 through 7 look ugly, but this is where the variability is the greatest: any of Rosario, Castro, Bisenius, Zagurski or the also-rehabbing Scott Mathieson could break out and suddenly find the command they need to be solid relief assets. The key, as always, will be to minimize the damage allowed through the first three months while Manuel and the coaching staff figure out who is and who isn't reliable. Early reliance upon the lower-ceiling but more predictable guys like Chad Durbin and Condrey could be a smart way to proceed.

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Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
Agree with your assessment for the most part.  The Phils bullpen will probably have a few sour moments along the way, but overall, will prove reliable once a solid mix is worked out.  Despite the Benson signing, I still have serious concerns about the state of the Phils starting rotation.  We'll see how it all shakes out, but my hunch is the rotation is going to be a huge problem, that may be addressed with a deadline deal in midseason.    
Chris Iafolla http://heardinthecheapseats.com/

by Chris Iafolla on Feb 17, 2008 12:44 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
The Benson signing was a bit like taking Advil after a tank rolls over your foot: the pain might be a little less, but you've still got a crushed foot. Lohse at least would be a plaster cast... but even I'm starting to get sick of reading my posts about how the Phillies need to sign Lohse. Even if they got him on a great contract, their rotation would still carry a lot more risk than the Mets (where the questions boil down to whether a Hall of Famer will stay healthy and two 15-game winners will be consistent) or Braves (whose #5, Chuck James, would easily be our #3).

Ultimately it might work out, but as was the case last year, they'll need to bash opponents into submission and then hold whatever leads they get.

by dajafi on Feb 17, 2008 12:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
dajafi, nice post, but I'll bet both Maine and Perez regress.

Both of them pitched a great deal more innings in 2007 than in 2006.  Now, Perez had pitched up to 196 IP while in Pittsburgh, but Maine pitched 101 more innings in '07 than in '06.

I'll bet one of them spends some time on the DL in '08, or at least pitches poorly.

by AWH on Feb 17, 2008 11:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
From your keyboard to Base-ba'al's holy ears...

But I think both Maine and Perez are out of the age range where a big jump in IP tickets them for the operating table. With Perez the question is always whether he can locate (and how patient the team facing him is--the Phils generally handle him because most of them don't swing at bad balls), and Maine might just have pitched over his head for a season and a half--nobody thought he'd be better than rotation filler at the time the Mets acquired him.

by dajafi on Feb 18, 2008 12:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
The interesting thing I keep seeing is how everyone just assumes Pedro Martinez will be healthy all year. They keep touting the Mets rotation with him included... I think that's a stretch.

Plus, it's important to note that Santana replaced Glavine. Granted, that's a big time upgrade, but it's not like Santana was simply added to last years' rotation. Those are 200 decent innings they lost there.

There's no doubt that the rotation is better than last year, but it's still full of pretty much the same guys that let them down last year. Save one.

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Feb 18, 2008 6:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
I think of Martinez and El Duque as basically one guy, in terms of what they'll get from the two of them. But your Santana/Glavine point is well taken. It's not like Santana is replacing 200 innings of Jose Lima.

WTF with Lito Sheppard, by the way?

by dajafi on Feb 18, 2008 7:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
wow, the innings on those PECOTAs are ugly. only 45 innings for Romero seemed especially weird to me, since he's only put up under 55 innings once in his career.

by perfectdepth on Feb 17, 2008 12:59 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
I think it's something in their system that habitually undercounts IP. If you look at their full projections, only six relievers are projected for 70 or more IP. All those numbers will prove low, except of course for whoever gets injured...

by dajafi on Feb 17, 2008 2:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
I don't like the projections here.  How do they come up with these numbers?!

by schrifty on Feb 18, 2008 10:04 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
I just wanted to point out that sportsbook.com has the mets listed as 3-2 to win the nl this year.  With the phils as an 8-1.  Somehome they feel one player makes the mets that much better than everyone else.  INSANITY!!

by schrifty on Feb 19, 2008 1:45 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
Really?  How can you not see that when you add a Cy Young candidate and subtract your fifth-worst starter, that's a huge difference?

by David S. Cohen on Feb 19, 2008 3:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
There are other teams in the NL with Cy Young candidates.  THey lost GLavine and have no clue what they will get out of Pedro.  3-2 is a ridiculous number to be favored at for any team. They lost their top prospect in Milledge, also lost Lo Duca and Shawn Green as well.  They added only Santana and all of their already old players got a year older.

by schrifty on Feb 20, 2008 1:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
But they're adding Santana to a team that already won 88 games.  And losing LoDuca is the purest definition of "addition by subtraction" I can possibly imagine.  And Shawn Green is the League Average Posterboy.

It's not a slam-dunk, but the Mets have to be seen as strong favorites at this point.

by WholeCamels on Feb 20, 2008 3:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
Well, the Phillies subtracted J. D, Durbin or someone and added Myers to the starting rotation (compared to last season).

Regardless, I think the Mets are the favorites.  I kinda think the big difference between the two teams might be the pitching coach. Peterson seemed to make Ollie Perez and El Duque very effective pitchers after they were pretty lousy elsewhere.  Maine has been much better than expected.  Much of the bullpen -- guys like Darren Oliver and Pedro Feliciano and Robeerto Hernandez and Sanchez -- perfomed very well for the Mets after not being so hot previously.

It just seems that more pitchers go to the Mets and do surprisingly well while most pitchers who go to the Phils do worse than expected (obvioulsly there are a few exceptions).

Shea vs. CBP is part of it but there's more to it than that I'm afraid.  

by smitty on Feb 19, 2008 5:16 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
No question, Peterson is a huge advantage for the Mets.

But after years of ragging on the guy, I'm starting to think we've given Rich Dubee a raw deal. Myers went from sub-par to very good under Dubee; Hamels became an ace-type in very short order; Romero entirely turned it around; Kendrick exceeded all expectations. Heck, go back to Robinson Tejeda in 2005; a lot of Phillie pitchers have developed fast or exceeded expectations since Charlie and Dubee came in.

by dajafi on Feb 20, 2008 12:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
Fair enough.  It's difficult to know for sure exactly what a pitching coach does and how effective the guy is.  Look at Mazzone -- genius in Atlanta; not so much in Ballimer,

The best ever PC was Johnny Sain.  He had the advantage (?) of working for several teams (probably because he couldn't get along with managers).  But he improved every staff he had and they all got worse after he left.  Many of his pitchers raved about him.

It seems to me that Peterson (and Duncan and maybe a few others) are clearly very good.  I don't know if Dubee is or not.  The Phils' ERAs have been really high for years now and it's not all CBP's fault.  So I'm not sure Dubee is all that great.  

The guys you mentioned are good examples and maybe Moyer and Lohse are two more (despite high ERAs they both were effective most of the time -- they just got really bombed a few times).

I think Peterson is almost certainly very good.  I'm not even sure how to rate Dubee.  I think we agree that the advantage here is with the Mets and it might be a very critical one in 2008.

by smitty on Feb 20, 2008 2:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
If there's one area where I think "sabermetrics"--if that word still even means anything--has fallen short, it's evaluation of coaches and front offices. James gave managers a shot at one point, I think, but coaches--and GMs!--are still considered, when/if at all, on totally subjective grounds. You and I can agree on Peterson or Sain or Roger Craig or Walt Hriniak or whoever, but surely there are analytical tools that can be applied.

Not sure this is super-relevant to the immediate topic, but it's been a frustration of mine for some time now. C'mon, BP--what am I paying you that $40 a year for? ;)

by dajafi on Feb 20, 2008 4:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
I agree.  For a long time now, I've wanted to do a study of players before and after joining the Phillies under Manuel.  It seems to me that, at the very least, he increases players' walk rate.  But, I start thinking about how I'd do such a study and find it hard (for my untrained but statistically-oriented mind) to separate out natural career arcs and improvement.

by David S. Cohen on Feb 20, 2008 4:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
I started doing that, in some rough and methodologically questionable way, around when the Feliz rumors picked up. Don't think I ever published it. Maybe I'll play with it again tonight.

by dajafi on Feb 20, 2008 4:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
PECOTA (and other projection systems) uses historical career path data (among other things) to project players, right?

I would think that comparing players' actual performance to their PECOTA projections would be a pretty straightforward way to look for a possible managerial effect.

by phatj on Feb 20, 2008 8:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
or a good way to show for shrewd GMs and scouts who can figure out who's due to outperform the general expectation.  there's no reason to assume you can isolate these effects.  there are very few if any ways to isolate causes like managerial effects.

by MattS on Feb 21, 2008 1:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
regarding managers, Baseball Prospectus' conclusion (in Baseball Between the Numbers) was:

"In the end, we may be forced to concede that the evaluation of managers is one area of analysis in which the numbers cannot provide any useful insight. Through a slew of different analytical techniques, no evidence of managerial influence has been found.
...
The singular problem with statistical analysis of managerial ability is that there are too many factors in play that are not measured by any available numbers."

managers are a little different from coaches in some ways, especially since a pitching coach isn't going to be responsible (as much) for team unity and some of those intangibles. but I still believe that the vast majority of the time it would be nearly impossible to separate out a pitching coach's influence from all the other factors.

by perfectdepth on Feb 20, 2008 7:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
just to add: which is not to say that a pitching coach (or hitting coach or bench coach etc) can't have a significant impact. just that it's very likely impossible to quantify.

by perfectdepth on Feb 20, 2008 7:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
Nice post.

I'm predicting a huge season out of Lidge.  I really think he just needed a change of scenery. His talent is too great for him to continue to bomb out.

by em3 on Feb 20, 2008 9:39 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Semi-Sweet Relief
I think he will be very good too.  I really think pitching on a fixed knee as opposed to a hurt one will make a big difference.

by smitty on Feb 20, 2008 2:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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