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FU BOOOOOO!!

While driving this evening, I was having my ears bled out by listening to WIP who always caters to the lowest common demoninator fan and justifying it by calling it passion.  The host, whom I won't bother mentioning, was taking calls and defending the town for booing Jimmy Rollins.  One guy called up and said that he booed Burrell relentlessly for the past 2 years (really?) but voted for him as an All-Star cause he finally is playing like he should, also booed Jimmy during all 4 At Bats and will continue to do so until Jimmy apologizes to [him] via the media.

Are you freakin kidding me?

Star-divide

There seems to be an obvious disconnect with the fans (and radio people) who advocate booing.  On one hand, they say it should invigorate the player, showing him that he isn't playing up to snuff (and an argument was seriously made that it pushed the Phillies to the 80 WS).  On the other hand, it was argued, that the players should have thick skin and not let it bother them to the point that they lash out in the media.  Well, which is it?  It appears that they want to have their cake and eat it too.  The players SHOULD listen, but only if it makes them "play" harder.  The most ridiculous comment was that the fans of this city just want to see effort.  Um, excuse me?  WTF?  Seriously?

I could easily branch off onto a tanget talking about how pathetic the sports talk is in this city and how the hosts are all just a bunch of charicatures of themselves and cater to enraging people rather than actually being logical and reasonable about sports.  However, I really am going to get to the crux of booing.  What is the point of it and what is it REALLY supposed to do?

Sorry for all of you religious people here, but I am going to use a religious analogy here that I think is apt.  The idea of booing is equivalent to hell.  We can draw on the concept that a player doesn't want to get booed like a person doesn't want to piss off the almighty lord and end up visiting Satan in the hot underworld.  Thus, the deterent is fear.  Fear of booing is equivalent to the fear of god.  I believe one of the lost gospels commented on playing hard, running into walls and taking the extra base as the means to a happy afterlife (by happy afterlife, I mean being able to eat at Chickie's and Petes without some drunk asshole calling your mom a whore).  So, to sum up, fear of getting booed should prompt players to play better like the fear of god should keep us from stealing, or killing, or molesting small animals.

But, does the means justify the ends?  Are we doing it for the right reason?  Shouldn't we not steal or murder because it is something we don't want done to us rather than because it would piss god off?  Likewise, shouldn't a player play to a high level because it is expected (and will rake in the cash) rather than to avoid the boos?  I mean, I am not discrediting the fan (or god's) role in this, but rather, what should true motivation be?  The problem is that too much justification is made of booing;  they are professionals;  they make a ton of money;  they deserve it;  we deserve a winner.  Blah, blah, blah. 

Is this how you would motivate your child?  Little Stevie brings home a test with a grade of a C-.  Do you then tell Stevie that he sucks.  That he isn't worth the money you put in for him.  That he shouldn't be in the family and you are going to bring in another kid to take his spot? 

But they aren't children?  They are professionals at the workplace?

Is this how you want to be motivated at work?  You miss an email telling you that a deadline was at 4pm and it is already 5pm.  Your boss comes over and then tells you how much better Anderson is than you.  That he should have given Anderson the report to work on or that you suck and you can never do anything right.  That they are now looking for a replacement for you. 

Sports have been ingrained into our society that we take it very personally.  I tend to think that it is an outlet for people who need to vent other frustrations.  Booing Burrell is really telling your wife you are pissed off at her for not performing oral activities the night before.  Telling Rollins he is a prima dona is really you telling the mechanic that $1200 bucks for a new transmission is ridiculous and that you are going to shove that wrench up his ass. 

However, one of traits that separates humans from animals is the ability for us to manage our emotions.  Kick a dog and he gets pissed and bites you.  Stick a needle in a lion's eye and he'll likely maul you.  Tell an elephant he is fat and he'll sit on you. 

Humans are a step up from that.  We have the ability to determine where the frustration comes from.  Pat Burrell strikes out with the bases loaded and the Phils down by a run, we boo.  But what are we booing?  Are we mad at Pat? Maybe, but more likely frustrated at him.  We are really mad at the situation.  The possibility of tying the game or taking the lead was there and due to the statistical odds showing their face, we didn't do it.  So, we boo and call Pat a loser or something else I don't want to put here. 

But in reality, we are placing blame on those who really don't deserve it.  Pat tried to hit the ball.  He wanted to hit the ball.  He put every effort in and he failed.  Failure is a part of sports.  It is the failure part we are booing and it reality, it is a silly concept.  Boo!  Screw you statistical odds!  Eff you regression to the mean!  I hope you die, standard deviation!  All we get out of this is a bunch of bad vibes and unhappy players.

So, when you get all worked up and ready to boo Jimmy for correctly stating that Philly fans suck (as evidenced by the home winning percentage differential being the worst in MLB), think about what you are actually booing.  You are booing a rich dude, who gets paid to play a sport in a town that he has no real connection to because you paid money to watch a sport being played that has no real impact on your life or anything that goes on in the world around you.  Maybe you should be booing yourself for putting so much emotion and money into something that is likely to let you down and has no tangible effect on your life.  Or better yet, instead of booing, just relax, shrug it off and say, "Go get next time, pal!"  I don't know if I have ever heard that at one of the millions of game I have been to, but I am sure Jimmy or Pat or Ryan would appreciate it.  And I am sure your blood pressure would appreciate it too.

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Bravo

Couldn’t have said it better. Booing players is not going to make them play better or like you more or want to apologize. We need to be Jimmy’s best friends right now. Going into the series with the Padres, the Phillies won 73% of their games where Jimmy scored a run and 60+% when he simply got on base. How about we pull for him instead of antagonizing.

by phillywriter21 on Aug 20, 2008 2:11 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For what it's worth...

I couldn’t have commented any better!

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Aug 20, 2008 2:13 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Indeed!

I think Chase Utley said it best, “Boo? Fuck you!”

by MattS on Aug 20, 2008 3:11 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

bad taste

Once I grew up I decided that booing in general is just plain rude. But only a real loser boos their own team.

by lseltzer on Aug 20, 2008 6:24 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Boo-Bird Be Gone!

Booing has a time and a place, but not for a team that’s been contending since the turn on the century and currently in the hunt for the playoffs, This team needs support, not jackass fans booing. Most fans boo because they think it’s funny. The fans that are 50 and have watched all their lives don’t go out of their way to bash Jimmy, it’s a lot of the younger crowd doing it because that what they’ve been told Philly fans do. I can say this too, I’m part of the “younger crowd”…for now at least.

by GMCarson on Aug 20, 2008 7:02 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When boos bother me

I have absolutely no problem with with a natural boo. You know how that feels… something happens in the course of the game that just compels you almost involuntarily to boo. A particularly poor play, a key moment gone wrong, any number of things that might make you jump and up and voice your displeasure without thinking… You go to a game, get wrapped up in the atmosphere, and sometimes that results in a release of you booing. Not a big deal.

What I do not understand and never will are people like you described here. People who go to a game for the express purpose of booing. Premeditated booing. This bizarre mindset that some people have that they’re going to boo Burrell regardless of what he does night in and night out. They’re going to punish Jimmy Rollins no matter what happens in the actual game. Then one of these guys hits a big HR or makes a game saving play and the same fans who have been booing them for a month scream and cry because the guy doesn’t come out for a curtain call. Wow, you mean the player doesn’t want to thank you for not booing him? What a jerk that player must be!

So basically, I don’t think booing is wrong perse. We go to the games and get emotionally invested and sometimes a moment might pop up where that results in us booing. I don’t think players will begrudge fans for reacting that way in certain moments if it’s a genuine reaction… but this “culture” of booing and this idea that you plan to boo as punishment or something… that’s out of line.

by JasonB on Aug 20, 2008 9:57 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Only Constant

Well said and rings true. And…let’s not expect reason to make a difference. Those who boo compulsively defend their right to do so with all sorts of shallow and dumb rationalizations, and people only defend what they want to keep.

Let’s face it — we are speaking of negativity addicts who have not hit bottom despite the fact that the only constant in 20+ years without a champion is fan behavior. I’m speaking more broadly than just the Phils. Managers, coaches, and general managers have come and gone. Owners have come and gone. Players and venues have come and gone. Fan behavior is the only constant.

Duh!

by Valo on Aug 20, 2008 10:26 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe you should be booing yourself for putting so much emotion and money into something that is likely to let you down and has no tangible effect on your life.

At least in my own case (and I don’t really go to enough Phils games—maybe 1-2 a year, usually in Queens—to personally figure much in this conversation), there’s no question that I’m more pissed at myself for irrationally caring so much than I am at, say, So Taguchi for his near-total inability to hit.

For that matter, I think the boos showered on Taguchi or Geoff Jenkins are really meant for the guys in suits, not uniforms. But there’s no convenient way to razz Bill Giles or David Montgomery or Pat Gillick—well, other than the restaurant I was at in Jersey a few months where I’m pretty sure Monty was there; family members restrained me from jamming my fork into his forehead—so the players bear it.

by dajafi on Aug 20, 2008 11:21 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In the end, Philadelphia fans boo because they like to, and that’s really all there is to it. As for why they like to boo: E Digby Baltzell’s politics differed from mine, but I really think he was on to something in diagnosing Philadelphia’s local culture as much more anti-elitist than other places in America. Basically, Philadelphians have a tendency to dislike very talented people – not just professional athletes, but anyone: scholars, politicians, businessmen, etc. Arrogance is disliked by people almost anywhere of course and rightfully so, but in Philadelphia, even talent and achievement themselves are viewed with a certain level of suspicion unless they’re actively hidden. People are not supposed to stand out.

This is why most of the athletes who become whipping boys around here are generally not those who perform the worst (dajafi, I don’t recall ever hearing Taguchi get booed at CBP, and while Jenkins gets booed, it’s relatively mild), but those whom the game seems to come easy to, like Von Hayes or Bobby Abreu. If a star player is at the other extreme and is perceived to be a “scrapper” or a “grinder” or whatever, as Chase Utley is, then he can immunize himself to a certain degree, because what the fans take away from that is “he’s not that gifted, he’s just like me.” For star players who just have normal personalities, you just have to take your turn on the firing line every once in a while. If you succeed greatly, the fans will cheer you in the short run, but not without subconscious resentment building up in the long run. If an excuse to boo ever arises, the resentment comes out like a dam breaking.

This J-Roll episode stands out though, not because he’s getting booed (almost everyone gets booed), but because the reason for the boos is just so incredibly stupid. I feel like I’m watching cable political news coverage. This whole thing is an artificial pseudo-scandal ginned up by disingenuous talking heads with nothing better to do. It’s totally depressing.

by taco pal on Aug 20, 2008 12:13 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is certainly a depressing outlook, but it strikes me as right on the money. How twisted is it to resent the talented for their talents?

The guys I’ve always had it in for—maybe in response to this tendency—are the Rex Hudlers who flat-out stink, but seem to feel they should be exonerated because they try so darned hard. (Jenkins, with that abhorrent uppercut and the ostentatious and counterproductive diving, is in that boat too.)

I was totally ready to hate Aaron Rowand for the same reason, but he turned out to be a good player for the Phils, at least in 2007.

by dajafi on Aug 20, 2008 12:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah I feel some of that too. But, well, you know, oversteering isn’t good either.

Hudler was pretty egregious though, although that was mitigated a bit by the fact that he just sucked so bad while he was here that even the Philly fans weren’t able to warm up to him completely.

Regarding Jenkins, he’s actually a pretty talented guy. I think he’s just washed up.

by taco pal on Aug 20, 2008 12:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rolen was a scrapper. Even David Bell got booed because he sucked. I think it is an inferiority complex. They make a ton of money, I have none, so I can boo those bastards if they don’t win for me. That is why Philadelphians like to lose. Because they can at least feel better about themselves. If the Phils win then it kinda makes those overpaid jagoffs worth the money and puts you back into your little hole.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Aug 20, 2008 7:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Overachievers

“If a star player is at the other extreme and is perceived to be a "scrapper" or a "grinder" or whatever, as Chase Utley is, then he can immunize himself to a certain degree, because what the fans take away from that is "he’s not that gifted, he’s just like me.”

Right on target. Look at the city’s sports icons: Rich Ashburn, Tommy McDonald, Bobby Shantz, Chuck Bednarik. I don’t know why it should be, but Philadelphians prefer apparent overachivers to highly talented athletes (watch out Cole Hamels).

’Yo Rocky.

by Valo on Aug 20, 2008 5:35 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After thinking it over some more, I guess the only other thing I would add is that maybe in addition to the resentment thing, some Philadelphians just have less empathy than people elsewhere. I was surfing some other blogs today and on one of them (Beerleaguer, I think), a commenter described an incident he had observed at CBP last September where a couple of fans took it upon themselves to gleefully chant “Worthless Werth!” anytime Jayson Werth came up to bat. Mind you, this was last September, when the Phillies were in the middle of one of the most exciting hot streaks of their entire history, and when Werth was in the middle of posting a .329 post-ASB batting average, which basically saved the team after Victorino and Bourn went down with injuries. The commenter asked the hecklers why they thought Werth deserved this kind of treatment and they answered “Because he sucks.”

Obviously, that’s just an anonymous dude posting on the internet, but the story rings true to me. I feel like I’ve seen stuff like that lots of times. And no, I don’t think it would happen nearly as frequently elsewhere, not even in Boston or NY. There’s plenty of booing in Boston and NY, but it’s usually for an actual reason – maybe a bad reason, but not for no reason at all.

I think the resentment thing is still relevant to this. Werth (while a little laid-back) is not really an Abreu/Hayes type, but even a run-of-the-mill ballplayer is an ultra-talented person in the grand scheme and therefore the object of suspicion. Still, there’s probably more to it than just that. I think some folks just enjoy mocking and trashing people who aren’t in a position to be able to respond, even if they don’t really know anything about the people they’re trashing. The current Rollins situation has more to do with the resentment piece of it, but it’s all part of the same overall equation.

by taco pal on Aug 20, 2008 7:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

listen, I agree with 90 percent of what you just said...

and I hate those random assholes who constantly boo at phillies games for no reason. I think its despicable, and while there are times like bad calls where booing is acceptable, just booing a player because he’s in a slump or because he made a mistake, especially if its a Phillie for godssake, well that’s just unacceptable.

But I, honestly, think J-Roll deserves what he got. He called Phillies Fans frontrunners, and regardless of whether it is true or not (I firmly believe it isn’t), he has to expect this, and he DID expect this, he said so himself when he uttered the comment.

I don’t care what franchise you are from, insulting the fans means booing is going to happen. And can you really blame the people who boo for doing that? Especially if they are phillies fans? I mean, for godssake, this team has 1 championship in 124 years. We are the losingest franchise in all of pro-sports. J-Roll doesn’t want to be tied up with the phillies past, but like it or not, he is, and he’s got to deal with the philadelphia fans and the love-hate relationship they have with their pro teams. Comparing the city to the cardinals is short-sighted and stupid in my mind. He needs to put himself in the fans shoes.

Listen, I’m totally against booing. But in this case, I think J-Roll got what was coming to him. It is stupid for anyone to think that he could say what he said, and not get booed.

by CMax on Aug 21, 2008 4:33 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, I think there’s more to it than just that. I don’t deny that insulting the fans will get a response of some sort in almost any city, although I doubt that the response would be as vitriolic elsewhere. (Not to mention the fact that insulting the fans in another city might be less justified, and therefore a response from the fans in another city might be less stupid.) But two things. One, J-Roll’s comments were not “insulting”. They were critical, but they were neither unfair nor particularly harsh. His statements were really pretty measured if you watch the actual clip. Anyone who gets “insulted” by that is flat-out hypersensitive. This only became such a big issue because of the idiots at WIP beating the drum and hyping everything up like they always do.

Two, Rollins’ comments might have been the trigger for the booing, but they weren’t the only cause and the booing isn’t happening in a vacuum. As long as we’re psychoanalyzing here, you have to read between the lines. There’s more going on than just stimulus-response. From where I sit, I’ve observed a lot of preexisting pent-up resentment embedded in the comments that a lot of people are now making. There’s a lot of talk along the lines of how Rollins needs to be slapped down and put in his place because his MVP got to his head. Classic anti-elitism.

Anyway, I don’t know that this is all such a bad thing. Jimmy might be crazy like a fox. The last two nights, the atmosphere at the ballpark has been super-intense, practically a playoff atmosphere, right at the moment when it seemed that the season might fade away into oblivion quietly. The team might actually find it galvanizing to play with a little tension in the air. Granted, we’re playing the Nats.

by taco pal on Aug 21, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You have some points...

but to say J-Roll’s comments weren’t insulting is simply untrue. Any fan who’s called a “frontrunner” is going to react in an extremely negative manner, and be extremely insulted. As for the pent-up rage…certainly there are a lot of problems fans are having with the players. J-Roll in particular this season has been lambasted for his lack of effort, not to mention the fact the phillies have been in a massive offensive slump. So of course there is pent up rage. And making these comments were in many ways the last straw. Honestly, the phillies (and J-Roll) have been playing poorly, and these comments are just badly timed, they almost seem like excuses.

As for the WIP quip, I wouldn’t simply blame this whole controversy on them. I’m a pretty diehard philly sports fan, but I never boo, and in fact detest the people who do boo every other AB. However, the phillies have been hard to watch this year, but I’ve watched almost every game. I’m personally insulted, after a fair amount of loyalty to the team even after they have been so hard to watch, that he is lumping me together with a very small percentage of philly fans. I’m sure many other philly fans feel similarly. This doesn’t have anything to do with “philadelphia fans” and their “lack of empathy,” it simply has to do with an athlete whom we all loved and supported accusing us of being the absolute worst kind of fan: a fairweather fan.

by CMax on Aug 21, 2008 2:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess where we disagree is that I don’t think those fans are a small percentage. When I go to the ballpark, they sure seem to me to be very loud and very numerous. If you aren’t one of them, then you don’t need to take offense.

You’re right that Phillie fans aren’t “frontrunners” but I also think it’s pretty clear that Rollins just used the wrong word there, and that what he really meant is obvious if you listen to the entirety of what he said on the show. Basically, there are a number of Phillie fans who boo players when things go badly even if there’s no way the player deserves any sort of blame for it; they get very personal in their attacks; and they seem to take pleasure in doing it. I don’t expect fans to cheer when Tom Gordon gets hit and loses a lead, but I see no justification for angrily tearing into an injured, 40-year-old man who was a huge part of our playoff drive last September — and then coming back to the ballpark to boo him again the next day before he even gets to face a batter. I don’t know if anyone’s ever invented a term for that kind of fan, but that’s what Rollins was referring to.

by taco pal on Aug 21, 2008 4:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmm maybe your right

I’ve chilled out about this the past few hours, but a friend of mine had the best opinion on these whole shenanigans. Basically, he said rollins should follow in the footsteps of Utley, and do his talking entirely on the field. I went to the game tonight, and one guy had a poster that said “Rollins, shut up and hit the ball.” I don’t think there was a more appropriate thing to say considering the situation. Seriously, rollins shoud just shut up and hit the ball. Regardless of whether he is right, it certainly doesn’t help the phillies win.

by CMax on Aug 22, 2008 12:24 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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