WE GON' HIT
“We gon’ hit,” Charlie Manuel reassured earlier this season, as the Phillies seemed to be temporarily underachieving. I concurred, and had a few things to say myself on the matter*:
http://www.thegoodphight.com/2008/7/9/567725/phillies-team-babip
http://www.thegoodphight.com/2008/7/14/571275/phillies-hitters-babips-mo
Yes, it seemed inevitable that the Phillies would turn themselves around. In the first of my two posts linked above, I pointed out the remarkable similarities between the Phillies walk rates, strikeout rates, homerun rates, and extra base hit rates in recent years, and expressed a belief that the team’s BABIP, inexplicably low at the time, was destined to turn around and our run scoring ability would too. The logic was simple—teams that are actually performing poorly by some underlying change in ability would have some indication of this in their more robust and stable statistics such as the ones listed above. Indeed, the lack thereof seemed to indicate performance was coming. In the second of the two posts above, I took a peak at the players individually and was even more assured that improvement was coming.
It has not.
Looking through the statistics now in more detail, I am prepared to make a confident prediction: “we gon’ hit.”
(This data does not include Tuesday’s or Wednesday’s game. I’ve had trouble posting since I wrote it Tuesday afternoon and I’m posting an abridged version now. I’ll add extra information in a fan post on the side.)
That said, anything can happen in a 38-game time span. Even the Nationals could go on a surge and score 200 runs in 38 games. So, it is quite possibly that we end up suffering more bad luck or are blessed with incredible good luck, but the general point I am making is that it really does seem that we should have been hitting way better than we have, and we should again.
Looking through my posts this year, it should be pretty clear that I am not flailing optimist. Indeed, I have beaten the doomed-bullpen drum all year. I have been warning the rise of the Mets all season. MattS is no homer!
Updating and correcting some of the data in my first post on this subject, I present the following table.
| HR rate | BB rate | K rate | BB/K | BABIP | XBH rate | RS/G | |
| 2005 | 0.030 | 0.101 | 0.171 | 0.590 | 0.306 | 0.087 | 4.981 |
| 2006 | 0.038 | 0.096 | 0.185 | 0.520 | 0.302 | 0.097 | 5.340 |
| 2007 | 0.037 | 0.098 | 0.184 | 0.532 | 0.311 | 0.102 | 5.506 |
| 2008 | 0.039 | 0.095 | 0.179 | 0.530 | 0.279 | 0.097 | 4.798 |
We are still hitting homeruns, walking, striking out, and getting extra base hits at the rate we have been for the past couple of years. There is reason to expect that we should be able to perform better offensively than we have.
In the fanpost, I posted a table with BABIPs for each time in the league this year and last. Our Phightin’ Phils are second to last in the entire major leagues, only ahead of
I have since updated another table since my previous post, but I left in our numbers before the all-star break to make a point.**
| Player | BABIP | BB% | K% | LD% | GB% | FB% | HR/FB | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| Rollins 08 | 0.280 | 8.8 | 10.1 | 22.0 | 45.2 | 32.2 | 6.8 | 0.266 | 0.333 | 0.431 |
| 08 ASB | 0.283 | 8.5 | 10.0 | 24.4 | 42.6 | 32.9 | 7.1 | 0.270 | 0.334 | 0.433 |
| career | 0.300 | 7.4 | 13.3 | 21.6 | 42.0 | 36.4 | 7.8 | 0.276 | 0.331 | 0.441 |
| Victorino 08 | 0.299 | 8.4 | 11.8 | 18.9 | 43.9 | 37.2 | 8.2 | 0.282 | 0.350 | 0.438 |
| 08 ASB | 0.301 | 9.2 | 10.8 | 18.4 | 44.5 | 37.1 | 5.0 | 0.279 | 0.351 | 0.406 |
| career | 0.301 | 7.2 | 13.4 | 18.7 | 46.1 | 35.2 | 7.5 | 0.276 | 0.340 | 0.415 |
| Utley 08 | 0.286 | 9.1 | 16.8 | 22.8 | 32.2 | 45.1 | 16.9 | 0.284 | 0.368 | 0.559 |
| 08 ASB | 0.289 | 9.8 | 16.1 | 23.9 | 31.4 | 44.8 | 18.2 | 0.292 | 0.373 | 0.586 |
| career | 0.323 | 8.9 | 18.1 | 21.4 | 36.7 | 41.9 | 14.1 | 0.297 | 0.373 | 0.529 |
| Howard 08 | 0.276 | 11.3 | 34.5 | 21.8 | 42.9 | 35.3 | 30.0 | 0.232 | 0.320 | 0.483 |
| 08 ASB | 0.275 | 11.8 | 35.6 | 20.0 | 43.4 | 36.6 | 32.6 | 0.233 | 0.324 | 0.511 |
| career | 0.334 | 13.8 | 33.9 | 23.2 | 397.0 | 37.1 | 33.8 | 0.277 | 0.379 | 0.579 |
| Burrell 08 | 0.286 | 17.6 | 24.9 | 20.0 | 35.2 | 44.8 | 20.9 | 0.266 | 0.393 | 0.559 |
| 08 ASB | 0.301 | 18.3 | 25.2 | 20.9 | 32.9 | 46.2 | 20.4 | 0.275 | 0.406 | 0.570 |
| career | 0.300 | 14.9 | 28.1 | 21.0 | 32.8 | 46.2 | 17.0 | 0.259 | 0.369 | 0.489 |
| Jenkins 08 | 0.284 | 7.8 | 23.0 | 20.9 | 44.1 | 35.0 | 11.7 | 0.241 | 0.300 | 0.387 |
| 08 ASB | 0.286 | 6.9 | 23.6 | 20.8 | 38.8 | 40.4 | 9.7 | 0.240 | 0.292 | 0.384 |
| career | 0.325 | 8.2 | 25.2 | 22.7 | 42.3 | 35.1 | 16.9 | 0.275 | 0.344 | 0.490 |
| Feliz 08 | 0.262 | 6.6 | 12.4 | 15.1 | 46.3 | 38.6 | 10.4 | 0.256 | 0.304 | 0.424 |
| 08 ASB | 0.265 | 7.1 | 10.2 | 15.9 | 46.6 | 37.5 | 10.4 | 0.263 | 0.315 | 0.429 |
| career | 0.271 | 5.2 | 17.0 | 16.7 | 43.8 | 39.5 | 11.6 | 0.253 | 0.290 | 0.432 |
| Ruiz 08 | 0.250 | 11.8 | 14.6 | 15.9 | 55.1 | 29.0 | 3.3 | 0.220 | 0.322 | 0.280 |
| 08 ASB | 0.227 | 11.1 | 14.1 | 15.3 | 54.0 | 30.7 | 4.0 | 0.203 | 0.305 | 0.271 |
| career | 0.270 | 10.4 | 13.5 | 17.5 | 49.3 | 33.2 | 5.6 | 0.245 | 0.331 | 0.358 |
| Werth 08 | 0.305 | 11.9 | 26.4 | 23.3 | 39.3 | 37.4 | 20.8 | 0.264 | 0.356 | 0.479 |
| 08 ASB | 0.313 | 11.3 | 25.4 | 24.1 | 40.5 | 35.4 | 21.4 | 0.272 | 0.358 | 0.479 |
| career | 0.336 | 11.9 | 30.2 | 24.0 | 38.2 | 37.8 | 14.7 | 0.260 | 0.353 | 0.441 |
| Coste 08 | 0.301 | 4.9 | 19.1 | 23.0 | 35.6 | 41.4 | 11.1 | 0.270 | 0.322 | 0.451 |
| 08 ASB | 0.295 | 5.3 | 16.0 | 22.6 | 35.0 | 42.3 | 12.1 | 0.278 | 0.333 | 0.481 |
| career | 0.323 | 4.4 | 17.0 | 23.6 | 39.1 | 37.3 | 11.9 | 0.293 | 0.339 | 0.463 |
| Bruntlett 08 | 0.247 | 9.3 | 15.9 | 19.6 | 49.1 | 31.3 | 3.9 | 0.215 | 0.298 | 0.292 |
| 08 ASB | 0.261 | 9.0 | 14.2 | 20.0 | 47.5 | 32.5 | 5.1 | 0.234 | 0.316 | 0.319 |
| career | 0.282 | 9.5 | 19.0 | 20.6 | 41.8 | 37.5 | 5.4 | 0.240 | 0.316 | 0.343 |
| Dobbs 08 | 0.360 | 5.1 | 21.7 | 23.7 | 31.3 | 45.0 | 8.5 | 0.301 | 0.339 | 0.458 |
| 08 ASB | 0.404 | 5.6 | 22.2 | 23.9 | 34.8 | 41.3 | 5.3 | 0.325 | 0.365 | 0.444 |
| career | 0.324 | 6.3 | 20.5 | 20.0 | 36.3 | 43.7 | 6.8 | 0.274 | 0.320 | 0.421 |
| Taguchi 08 | 0.254 | 9.1 | 16.3 | 17.9 | 59.7 | 22.4 | 0.0 | 0.213 | 0.284 | 0.275 |
| 08 ASB | 0.250 | 9.6 | 15.2 | 17.9 | 60.7 | 21.4 | 0.0 | 0.212 | 0.288 | 0.273 |
| career | 0.314 | 7.0 | 14.1 | 21.3 | 48.7 | 30.0 | 5.5 | 0.279 | 0.333 | 0.385 |
Before I discuss the players individually, I have constructed a new table in which I list the players BABIP this year and last year, and break it down into each type of batted ball.
| Player | BABIP | LD% | GB% | FB% | LDBIP | GBBIP | FBBIP |
| Rollins 2007 | 0.300 | 0.20 | 0.36 | 0.44 | 0.717 | 0.257 | 0.130 |
| 2008 | 0.279 | 0.20 | 0.46 | 0.34 | 0.718 | 0.181 | 0.153 |
| Victorino 2007 | 0.302 | 0.16 | 0.47 | 0.36 | 0.730 | 0.280 | 0.122 |
| 2008 | 0.299 | 0.19 | 0.43 | 0.38 | 0.710 | 0.288 | 0.092 |
| Utley 2007 | 0.362 | 0.22 | 0.38 | 0.40 | 0.792 | 0.294 | 0.175 |
| 2008 | 0.281 | 0.22 | 0.33 | 0.46 | 0.725 | 0.200 | 0.123 |
| Howard 2007 | 0.328 | 0.26 | 0.32 | 0.42 | 0.750 | 0.187 | 0.121 |
| 2008 | 0.272 | 0.20 | 0.43 | 0.38 | 0.702 | 0.164 | 0.159 |
| Burrell 2007 | 0.276 | 0.20 | 0.31 | 0.49 | 0.714 | 0.243 | 0.094 |
| 2008 | 0.281 | 0.19 | 0.35 | 0.46 | 0.732 | 0.224 | 0.119 |
| Jenkins 2007 | 0.301 | 0.22 | 0.42 | 0.36 | 0.766 | 0.192 | 0.130 |
| 2008 | 0.280 | 0.20 | 0.45 | 0.35 | 0.738 | 0.163 | 0.169 |
| Feliz 2007 | 0.257 | 0.16 | 0.43 | 0.41 | 0.680 | 0.214 | 0.135 |
| 2008 | 0.261 | 0.14 | 0.47 | 0.38 | 0.667 | 0.248 | 0.117 |
| Ruiz 2007 | 0.283 | 0.19 | 0.47 | 0.35 | 0.729 | 0.220 | 0.136 |
| 2008 | 0.250 | 0.17 | 0.55 | 0.29 | 0.714 | 0.195 | 0.070 |
| Werth 2007 | 0.389 | 0.21 | 0.42 | 0.37 | 0.744 | 0.338 | 0.220 |
| 2008 | 0.302 | 0.19 | 0.39 | 0.42 | 0.718 | 0.222 | 0.171 |
| Coste 2007 | 0.298 | 0.18 | 0.43 | 0.39 | 0.700 | 0.277 | 0.108 |
| 2008 | 0.299 | 0.21 | 0.37 | 0.43 | 0.657 | 0.266 | 0.149 |
| Bruntlett 2007 | 0.306 | 0.23 | 0.47 | 0.30 | 0.680 | 0.235 | 0.152 |
| 2008 | 0.247 | 0.18 | 0.50 | 0.33 | 0.655 | 0.222 | 0.039 |
| Dobbs 2007 | 0.311 | 0.16 | 0.38 | 0.46 | 0.718 | 0.286 | 0.182 |
| 2008 | 0.357 | 0.24 | 0.32 | 0.44 | 0.906 | 0.167 | 0.173 |
| Taguchi 2007 | 0.315 | 0.21 | 0.50 | 0.29 | 0.707 | 0.277 | 0.079 |
| 2008 | 0.254 | 0.16 | 0.61 | 0.22 | 0.545 | 0.244 | 0.067 |
I have posted a few more detailed comments in a fanpost on the sidebar. Here are the highlights:
--Rollins .181 BABIP on groundballs this year is way below league average, despite his usual infield hit percentage.
--Victorino’s plate disciplined has worsened in the second half, but his BABIP has not fallen because of an improved line drive rate.
--Utley’s line drive rate BABIP’s from 2005-08 have been .811, .860, .795, and .725. That seems like bad luck.
--Howard has been very unlucky on line drives this year-- .822, .795, .750, and .702 in the last few years. Since the break, his line drive rate has been almost 30%.
--Burrell has a .242 BABIP since the break. Even with a higher groundball rate, that seems ridiculously low.
--Jenkins’ numbers are consistent with him aging.
--Before the break, Feliz seemed to have improved in Philly, but either regressed or was playing hurt for a while.
--Ruiz still is hitting way too many groundballs, but his luck has turned around quite a bit on BABIP as could have been expected.
--Werth’s line drive rate has always been high as his BABIP until now. With a high line drive rate, his BABIP seems low due to bad luck.
--Coste is about as expected.
--Bruntlett is bad but his .247 BABIP makes him seem even worse. He’ll regress to the mean.
--Taguchi is older than he’s ever been and now he’s even older.
--Dobbs is hitting .906 on line-drives. His BABIP has already started to regress since the break.
Summing up, let’s look at another table, comparing the Phillies to the rest of the league in 2005-2008:
| Player | BABIP | LD% | GB% | FB% | LDBIP | GBBIP | FBBIP |
| TEAM 05 | 0.306 | 0.21 | 0.42 | 0.37 | 0.731 | 0.237 | 0.123 |
| TEAM 06 | 0.302 | 0.20 | 0.44 | 0.37 | 0.738 | 0.237 | 0.137 |
| TEAM 07 | 0.311 | 0.19 | 0.41 | 0.39 | 0.741 | 0.253 | 0.146 |
| TEAM 08 | 0.279 | 0.19 | 0.43 | 0.38 | 0.716 | 0.207 | 0.131 |
| NL 05 | 0.295 | 0.19 | 0.45 | 0.36 | 0.728 | 0.229 | 0.135 |
| NL 06 | 0.298 | 0.19 | 0.44 | 0.37 | 0.729 | 0.234 | 0.137 |
| NL 07 | 0.301 | 0.20 | 0.44 | 0.37 | 0.719 | 0.245 | 0.134 |
| NL 08 | 0.296 | 0.19 | 0.45 | 0.36 | 0.715 | 0.228 | 0.146 |
Overall, it seems like with the exception of a few hitters trying to adjust in light of their unlucky numbers, it doesn’t seem like there is any reason that the team should be hitting .279 on balls in play. While a few players seem to be playing over their heads, the majority of the team is playing well below their abilities. The team still hits line drives on 19% of balls in play, just like last year, and yet has fallen back to the league average level of success when doing so. While that does seem like regression to the mean, a team with so many gap hitters should be above average. In fact, the team beat the league average on line drives in play by 22 points last year. The team only has a .207 average on groundballs. That is way below the league average of .228. The last three years, the team did better than average on groundballs. It seems like more balls should find holes from here out and that should be a key reason why the team should improve. The team as a whole is still distinctly below average on flyballs that stay in the park too, hitting just .131 on them. The league average is .146. Before anyone claims that the small stadium is the cause, notice that the team outperformed the league on this statistic in 2007, matched them in 2006, but underperformed them in 2005. It seems like this is just one of the unlucky years.
The Phillies are an elite offensive team. They do not have the runs to show for it, but they still have the potential to score five and a half runs a game, and I expect them to score another 200 runs in their final 38 games. Hopefully that’s enough!
*There were a few calculation errors in earlier posts. While they did not qualitatively alter the results, there are some discrepancies that are reflected in the updated data in this post.
**Technically, these are the numbers from the day before the all-star break, not including Sunday, July 13th.
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8 comments
Comments
Lemme intersperse a few comments, as I’m just browsing through this…
“—Rollins .181 BABIP on groundballs this year is way below league average, despite his usual infield hit percentage.”
Maybe, but how does it compare to his average. Rollins ground balls always seem to go to the right side of the infield, which is why despite his speed, he rarely gets an infield hit.
—Utley’s line drive rate BABIP’s from 2005-08 have been .811, .860, .795, and .725. That seems like bad luck.
I think there’s something else going on here. Either he’s hurt, or pitchers have picked something up with him.
—Burrell has a .242 BABIP since the break. Even with a higher groundball rate, that seems ridiculously low.
Burrell is a terribly slow runner, and doesn’t hit that many live drives. His hits are usually balls in the gap or homers. I don’t think that number is absurd for him, because I don’t think HR’s factor into BABIP.
—Jenkins’ numbers are consistent with him aging.
Yes – he sucks. Next….
—Ruiz still is hitting way too many groundballs, but his luck has turned around quite a bit on BABIP as could have been expected.
I’d love to see what his average is by count. He seems to get into a good hitting count and then hits a grounder to 3rd on a 2-0 pitch. Either he neglects plate discipline once he gets in a good count or he’s just not a good hitter.
—Bruntlett is bad but his .247 BABIP makes him seem even worse. He’ll regress to the mean.
Disagree. He’s not going to do well enough to regress to mean. He may do better than he has been, but it’s too late to compensate for the horrific start. Not enough ABs left in the season.
—Taguchi is older than he’s ever been and now he’s even older.
I’ll refrain from making the comment about how it’s impossible to tell how old an Asian person is. Oops. Think I just made the comment.
I was excited about the signing of Taguchi. I envisioned him as a .280 guy with great speed who could even PR once in a while, the replacement for Bourn. I was dead wrong.
—Dobbs is hitting .906 on line-drives. His BABIP has already started to regress since the break.
Philly is a bad fit for Dobbs. We have too many left handed power hitters. I think he’d be a great #2 or #5 batter, but it’s just not there. I think the Phils missed out when Feliz got hurt. They should have showcased Dobbs as a real offensive juggernaut at 3rd base and then tried to trade him for something better. I love the guy. I just think his efforts are wasted on the bench as a PH in Philly. Instead we got thge 2008 version of Abraham Nunez at 3rd base for 20 games.
by Bilzo on Aug 21, 2008 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m actually of the opposite view on Dobbs. I think he’s perfect as a bench option, but he’s overexposed playing regularly at third or anywhere else. If you tried to use him as an everyday 3b, he’d be the lefty Wes Helms… as he was in ’07 when he platooned with Helms and Noonz.
On Utley, I would have agreed entirely before last night when he got two hits the other way. If he does that a few more times, the shift goes away and his average starts to climb again. But I do think he’s been hurt.
by dajafi on Aug 21, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, I appreciate the comments. Here are my thoughts on your responses.
Rollins— .181 on groundballs is way below his career average of .227. Not enough balls have gotten through the whole. It won’t really depend on which side he hits them to.
Utley— pitchers don’t really affect BABIP much, and if they did, it’s not by making Utley’s line drives go at people. Perhaps defenses can learn where a player hits line drives, but it’s highly unlikely this would take three yeras to figure out and all of a sudden they would. This seems like bad luck.
Burrell— He has a lifetime BABIP of just about .300. There is nothing about a player that makes a .242 BABIP normal, certainly not within the major league level. Just chopping at the ball could accomplish that.
Ruiz— His splits by count this year can be found here: http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=ruizca01&year=2008
There isn’t much data in one season by count. He’s 0 for 6 on a 2-0 count for example.
Bruntlett— Regressing to the mean does not mean counteracting bad luck with good luck. For example, if you flip a coin and it comes up heads 50 times in a row, and then you flip it 50 more times, you do not expect it to come up tails 50 times to even it out; you expect 25 heads and 25 tails from there out and would expect 75 total heads out of 100 flips at that point. For hitting, I meant that Bruntlett would hit .300 or so on balls in play from here out. Obviously that would land him around .260 or so.
by Matt Swartz on Aug 21, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The full title of this post should have been “TELL YOU WHUT, WE GON’ HIT”, or alternatively, “WE GON’ HIT, TELL YOU WHUT.”
“WHUT” may also be transliterated as “HWUT”
by taco pal on Aug 21, 2008 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bruntlett BABIPing at .260 or so is still bad, so we are in agreement there.
I still am not sold on Rollins. I think his ground ball number being higher contributes to his poor hitting. If he hits a slow roller to third or short he has a shot at legging it out. Chopping the ball to 1B is an auto out for anybody, and he seems to do that a lot on ground balls. I hope he gets better. I’m not a CBP boo bird. I’m a little miffed at his comments, but as he’s a phillie, I hope he does well.
by Bilzo on Aug 21, 2008 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rollins’ infield hit percentage is 5.3% this year and 5.4% on his career; he hits .060 on balls in the infield this year, .068 on his career. No difference really at all. This is about whether groundballs make it to the outfield.
Hitting lefty, he pulls 40% of balls, hits 43% up the middle, and hits 17% the other way this year. In his career, those numbers are 33, 52, and 15%. Those aren’t large differences.
Hitting righty, he pulls 33, 53 up the middle, and 14% the other way this year. In his career, 33, 51, and 15%, respectively. Almost exactly the same.
The difference between Rollins this year and a .285 hitter is 9 hits that haven’t gotten through the hole.
He is hitting .094 this year as a LHB hitting the ball the other way— 3/32. In his career, he hits .226 lefty on balls hit the other way. If he did that this year on those 32 balls hit the other way, that would be 4 more of those 9 hits. There is really very little statistical significance between Rollins and his normal self (except for the power); those 9 hits probably would have changed the outcome of a game or so, but they aren’t necessarily caused by him doing anything different.
by Matt Swartz on Aug 21, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rollins Last Night
Ground out to short, ground out to first, fly out to center, ground out to short (think it was back through the middle tho).
by Bilzo on Aug 22, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have we really looked into why the hitting is underachieving and the pitching is excelling despite the expectancy of the opposite for both? Bad weather in Philly? A strange hex? Something is causing this bizarro world…
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
by jonk on Aug 21, 2008 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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