WS Rotation and Cole
So, with the probable impending date with the Evil Empire, what are you guys feeling for a rotation? It's obvious that right now Cliff is the man, but do we want to start him in Game 1? Let's look at this carefully... The Yankees are using a three man rotation, assuming we use the same rotation we used in the NLCS, the matchups would look like this:
- Sabathia vs. Lee
- AJ vs. Cole
- Pettite vs. Pedro
- CC vs. Cupcakes
- AJ vs. Lee
- Pettite vs. Cole
- CC vs. Pedro
Let's be honest... Games 1 is a toss up and right now AJ looks sharper than Cole. Throw in that Pedro will be a bit of a wild card in Game 3, and then we get CC versus Cakes in Game 4. I'm not really feeling this. However, if we start Cole in Game 1, I think we have a better pitching matchup for the series as a whole:
- Sabathia vs.Cole
- AJ vs. Lee
- Pettite vs. Pedro
- CC vs. Cupcakes
- AJ vs.Cole
- Pettite vs. Lee
- CC vs. Pedro
The goal for Games 1 and 2 should be a split. I'd rather take our chances, and perhaps put the chips on Game 2, where Lee should have an advantage over AJ. If we split and go to Philly 1-1, good. If Cole puts together a gem in Game 1 and we steal that too, even better. I'd look to exploit Game 2 and hope that Pedro shows up in Game 3. I think we have the advantage if we're 2-2 when we roll around to Games 5 and 6. Hopefully we get a good performance from Cole in Game 5 versus AJ and Lee should be able to outlast Andy in 6.
Thoughts?
Additionally, I've been thinking about the Cole Hamels situation. Now, I'm going to throw out an theory which I neither have the time, resources, or talent to test. But if you do, by all means please follow through. We've looked at metrics over and over to show that, besides a hugely inflated BABIP, Cole is the same pitcher. Well, I think that's exactly the problem; he's the same exact pitcher as last year and the opposition has adjusted.
We've been assuming that the inflated BABIP is due to a mixture of luck and some defensive lapses, but other than luck, what affects BABIP? I say the quality of swing and contact on the pitch that's put in play. So is it just luck that the little grounders to Jimmy and Chase from last year are now shots in the hole? Is it luck that the lazy outfield flies are now gap shots? Or is it that Cole has become so predictable that the opposition can sit on pitches in certain counts and put better quality swings on the pitch? I think this might be the case... which would explain why all of the other metrics are the same as well.
There's a way to test this, but it would take some work. I think this problem is most prevalent on the following counts: 2-0, 1-2, and 0-2. Practically everyone knows Cole loves the 2-0 change up. If I can sit at home and call it, do you think the hitter knows its coming? He's fallen in love with it. What about 1-2 and 0-2 you say? I've noticed that Cole is giving up lots of hits (especially HRs) in pitchers counts. Again he's predictable. He doesn't mix in the curve enough and his change is his bread and butter for his put away pitch and when down 2-0. I know it's coming, and so does everyone else. His fastball isn't overpowering, so I think they're sitting on the change in these three counts and just fouling off fastballs until they get it.
Anyone have the tools and the talent to take a look at Cole's pitch selection in those three counts this year versus last year and the BABIP as well? Something tells me that when hitters had more guessing to do last year, the BABIP was way down here. Also, I would bet his pitch selection in these counts is similar, but the BABIP is huge. And that's especially bad for 1-2 and 0-2 counts where he should have the advantage.
Thoughts?
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There isn’t the extra off day between Game 4 and Game 5 of the World Series, like there is in the Championship Series round. So for Sabathia to make 3 starts, he’d have to go on short rest twice. Not saying that couldn’t happen, but I wouldn’t say it’s set in stone yet.
by PhillyFriar on Oct 22, 2009 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This might be oversimplifying it... But I think we should look at it this way...
We’re the World Champs, we’re rolling right now, we’re the best team.
We’re gonna pitch our best guys first, in order, and the Yankees can pick their poison.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 22, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
definetly dude, couldnt hve said it better myself
eff you we winning anyway
by eagleswin on Oct 22, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had Sabathia last year...
And he is their best pitcher. Im not too worried about our rotation. Last year our weak spot was Moyer and this year is Hamels. The thing is Hamels looks better this year than Moyer last year so its not too bad. We were told that the Dodgers pitchers and bullpen in general were better then ours and we found faults in each pitcher. As long as our bats are still there we will be fine. And if Werth is starting to get on fire then we are in great position.
by ssean2266 on Oct 22, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Game #1
Yankees will be slight to moderate favorites (I have them at 56.9%) in a Game #1 featuring Lee vs Sabathia. Lee is by far the Phillies best pitcher If all you are after in New York is a split the Phillies would be best off by taking a chance and pitching Cliff Lee in Game #2 instead of Game #1.
Like all gambles, there is a risk/reward factor to take into consideration. By doing so, you raise your chances of gaining a split, but you also lower your chances of winning both games in New York. The move only slightly raises your chance of a split, so is it really worth the tinkering?
Some other factors to take into consideration would be later on in the series, if you were to go to a 7th game and you had Lee pitching in Game #1/5 vs 2/6, he’d have rested his arm between the end of Game #5 and perhaps the mid part of Game #7 in a relief appearance.
These are the chess moves that help make the playoffs more interesting.
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 22, 2009 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Charlie doesn’t look at stats, and that’s why I love him. I want my best guy out there Game 1, my second best guy out there Game 2, and so on… None of this pussy conceding games bullshit to hope for a split – That’s garbage.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 23, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until it gets to the last game and its dependent on the last game and you got the third best starter out there.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
by Eaglesgrl5 on Oct 26, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but what if you never get to that last game and your 3rd best starter pitched in favor of a better option?
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 26, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, there is a lot of scenerios you could analyze. If we are looking to sweep the Yanks or at least get a one game advantage we won’t make it to the last game. I got my fingers crossed I won’t have to watch all 7 games in favor of the Phils of course.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
by Eaglesgrl5 on Oct 27, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the phils have always lost the second game of every series they have been in… well most of them anyway. i’d still like to have lee start game 1 and cole game 2 and pedro 3
eff you we winning anyway
by eagleswin on Oct 22, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
or maybe have blanton instead of pedro game 3 and happ game 4
eff you we winning anyway
by eagleswin on Oct 22, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee is the Phillies' top starting pitcher ...
And what has been extremely important in every series they’ve been in over the last three years?
Winning game one. Lost game one in 2007. Since then it has been 1-0 (or 2-0 ) in every series and the Phillies have never trailed in games in any series the last two years. Charlie Manuel made the right choice for the NLDS in going with Lee as his number one. With a week before the Series opens I see no way he would do anything different this time. Do you want to tell Cliff Lee – I think you can beat AJ Burnett but I’m not sure you can beat your old teammate from Cleveland, CC Sabathia. I understand the logic of your proposed move but to me it sounds like the play you might make if you have a 3-2 lead in games and can afford to pitch your best pitcher in game 6 or 7, not something where you aim for a 1-1 split at the start of the World Series.
by phillyinportland on Oct 23, 2009 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happ
Why isn’t he getting and starting consideration? NYY have never faced him. He’s had a great season. He’s got solid stuff. I think he’s more important as a Game 3 starter myself than working him out of the bullpen. Thoughts?
"Red, it took me sixteen years to get here. You play me, and I'll give ya the best I got."
by Touchdown on Oct 26, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Correction
He face NYY once. Ugh my memory ain’t what it used to be!
"Red, it took me sixteen years to get here. You play me, and I'll give ya the best I got."
by Touchdown on Oct 26, 2009 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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