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Phillies vs. Yankees: How They Got Here

Chan Ho Park is one of only five Phillies on the roster who hasn't yet pitched in the World Series. (AP Photo/David J. Phillip)

More photos » David J. Phillip - AP

Chan Ho Park is one of only five Phillies on the roster who hasn't yet pitched in the World Series. (AP Photo/David J. Phillip)

One is baseball's most storied franchise; the other is trying to shake off a mostly losing legacy. One is lionized and loathed in roughly equal measure; the other, though the reigning World F. Champions and boasting a clutch of likable stars, is to an extent still introducing itself to the world. But the shared strengths of the Phillies and Yankees—power throughout the lineup, rotations fronted by former Cleveland Indians aces, a flair for dramatic late-inning rallies, demonstrated ability to win both at home and on the road, and tight-knit clubhouses where "intangibles" seem to march in lockstep with talent—have baseball fans excitedly anticipating the first really memorable World Series in years.

As SBN blogger John Sickels observes, the teams were also constructed in similar ways: each boasts a homegrown core of superstars, surrounded by free agent or trade acquisitions that superbly complement the farm system products. For how differently they're perceived--and the unusual coincidence, particularly notable after the near-civil war vibe of the NLCS against the Dodgers, that neither team includes a former member of the other on the active roster (sorry, Miguel Cairo)--the opposing dugout will be something of a funhouse mirror for however long the Series goes. 

The only real divergence of note is where they’ve typically done their shopping: Sharper Image for New York, Value City for the Phils. The Yankees wrote checks totaling more than $50 million this year to imports C.C. Sabathia, Mark Teixiera and A.J. Burnett, while the Phils are paying Jayson Werth, Joe Blanton and Pedro Martinez around $10 million combined. (To be fair, the Phils are paying retail for free-agent pickup Raul Ibanez, while the Yanks got great value for trade acquisition Nick Swisher.)

Star-divide

It might come as a surprise that the Yankees are actually more home-grown than the Phils: 12 of the players on their 25-man roster were originally signed by the organization (including Andy Pettitte, who left and came back), compared to 9 for the defending World Champs. The difference here is that the Yankees’ developed stars reached the majors in two very distinct eras: the mid-‘90s, when Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Pettitte and Mariano Rivera arrived on the scene to spark the dynastic Joe Torre champions, and about ten years later, when Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and others showed up to provide the depth and cohesion that had gone missing from the early-'00s menagerie of mega-stars and head cases. While the work of Sabathia, Teixiera, Alex Rodriguez and the other big names has gotten the attention, the contributions of the relatively modestly paid young Yankees in 2009 might explain why they’re back in the World Series where their recent predecessors fell short.

One edge the Phillies have, unusual for an underdog, is World Series experience. All but five members of the current roster—Antonio Bastardo, Cliff Lee, Paul Bako, Raul Ibanez, and Ben Francisco—are veterans of the 2008 Series win over Tampa Bay. Only nine of the 25 Yankees—Pettitte, Rivera, Posada, Jeter, Hideki Matsui, Damaso Marte, Jose Molina, Johnny Damon, and Eric Hinske—have played in the Fall Classic, as has manager Joe Girardi. In a matchup where the Phils might need every little edge to prevail against by far the most formidable foe they’ve faced in the last two Octobers, here’s hoping that turns out to be significant. 

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i’m sick of all the home-grown talk already. The first four hitters in our lineup are homegrown. The yankee’s sluggers are not. Put our home grown up against theirs, see whose players are better… Can’t wait to get to the game tonight just to see the Yankee’s wilt again. Phillies in five.

by packimop on Oct 28, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My goodness -- such anger.

Somebody give him a rubber ball to squeeze.

"It's only fun if you win, Skip." -- Me.

by Paul O'Neill on Oct 28, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Paul... is that really you?

I loved you in that Seinfeld episode. But that’s about the only nice thing I have to say. I found a picture of you online. Is there where A-Rod got the idea?

by Boundforbeach on Oct 28, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he can be friends with this guy. I think it’s a perfect match.

by taco pal on Oct 28, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love

How he repeatedly says he isn’t bothered, yet he was clearly bothered enough for a five paragraph rambling diatribe.

by Cormican on Oct 28, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Victorino isn’t homegrown. Nor is Werth, whom I think counts as one of our “sluggers.” And their homegrown guys include two surefire Hall of Famers, Jeter and Rivera, and a couple others who should have a shot. Of the Phils’ farm products, I think Utley is more likely than not to go to the Hall, and there’s a shot for Rollins and Howard, but in terms of career accomplishments it’s not close.

Then again, that wasn’t the point here. I was just making a general observation about how durably good teams tend to get built and noting that both these clubs got here on merit.

by dajafi on Oct 28, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s a good point to be sure. I had no idea the Yanks had 12 home growns on the roster, even if some are just playing bit roles. And very well written. “One is lionized and loathed in roughly equal measure.” Hell, even Paul O’Neill posted a comment.

by Boundforbeach on Oct 28, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, but Paul O’Neill was not home grown! He came up through the Reds organization.

by taco pal on Oct 28, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yet he’ll be remembered as a Yankee, like Brosius, Girardi, Nelson, Stanton, Knoblauch and all the other imports of those late-’90s teams.

It’s arguable that the real similarity is between the current Phillies and the late-‘90s Yankees: Werth is our O’Neill, Feliz is fairly close to Brosius, Lee is our David Cone, etc. That’s a somewhat comforting thought.

by dajafi on Oct 28, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it’s interesting. Do fans give more inherent love to a home-grown versus a hired-gun hero? I’m not so sure. It’s nice to say that your own system develeped the core of a champsionship team. But if Lee manages to win a game or two and we win this series, he’ll be deified and his place in Phillies history cemented.

by Boundforbeach on Oct 28, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pete Rose spent the vast majority of his career in Cincy.

Steve Carlton started his career in St. Louis.

Tug McGraw started out as a Met.

Gary Maddox was originally a Giant

Gary Matthews was also originally a Giant

In fact, aside from Schmidt, Boone and Bowa that entire ’80 team was free agents/trades. Never loved them any less.

by Cormican on Oct 28, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it depends.

All other things being equal, people will generally prefer the guys who first became big while they were together. (Which doesn’t necessarily mean they have to be technically “homegrown” – see Werth and Vic.)

But all other things are never equal.

by taco pal on Oct 28, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

With the exception of the newest players from the past two years (Blanton, Ibanez, Pedro and Lee), most of the team has grown together at some point with each other, that being as minor league or major league teammates. So, IMHO they have somewhat “homegrown” together, and for me that is good enough.

by SmilingJPhilsPhan on Oct 28, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Greg Luzinski says hi.

by Wet Luzinski on Oct 28, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There were a few homegrown pitchers too, I wasn’t planning on recapping the entire roster. Sorry I forgot Greg though, he was a huge part of that team and a fan fave.

by Cormican on Oct 28, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sarge actually wasn’t on the ’80 team. He was on the ’83 team though.

by taco pal on Oct 28, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mathews replacing Luzinski

I don’t remember why Luzinski was released/sold to the White Sox in the spring of 1981, but Mathews coming over from the Braves (for reliable rookie Bob Walk) was the only major roster move for the 1980 champions. I did find it interesting, however, that when the playoffs arrived in 1981 both Bob Boone and Garry Maddox had lost their starting positions to younger players – Keith Moreland behind the plate and Lonnie Smith in center field. The pitching staff was pretty much the same, minus Walk and Randy Lerch

by phillyinportland on Oct 28, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, the Phillies were actually doing a pretty good job of replenishing their team in mid-flight after the 1980 season. But then, they suddenly changed their minds and abandoned that path for one short-term run at the title by trading Smith, Moreland, Ryne Sandberg, Mark Davis. And they lost their ability to develop new prospects at right around the same time. If they’d been willing to suffer a little bit in 1982 and 1983, we might not have had to suffer so much more in 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991…

by taco pal on Oct 28, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But then the Cubs wouldn’t have broken their 39-year title drought. I think five of their 8 regulars that year played for the Phillies between 1980-82.

by phillyinportland on Oct 28, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I realized that on my drive home from work.

by Cormican on Oct 28, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We still have a good number of home-growns, though, most of whom are starters – Rollins, Utley, Howard, Hamels, Myers, Happy, Mad Dog, Chooch, and Bastardo. Victorino and Werth were both Rule 5 draftees. We seem to raise starters, and sign (relatively) inexpensive role players for the bench.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Oct 28, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Werth was signed as a free agent. Victorino is our only Rule V player.

by Cormican on Oct 28, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, you’re right – I misremembered us Rule V’ing Werth when he was off the roster in ’06, but we signed him after that season.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Oct 28, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Enough talk – let’s get it on already! Going stir crazy here…

by taco pal on Oct 28, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

agreed

I can’t sit still

by BigPhillyStyle on Oct 28, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees – Baseball’s most storied franchise, or baseball’s most steroided franchise? Or both?

by BigPhillyStyle on Oct 28, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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