Uggla v. Feliz: fair trade?
No, no, of course it's not a fair trade. But is it a good idea - could Dan Uggla fully replace Pedro Feliz's performance on both sides of the ball?
Jemagee, FuquaManuel and I kind of got into this a little bit on the 10/4 game thread. FM, I believe it was, said that Uggla could play 3d; I voiced concern about replacing Feliz's defense with Uggla, and was challenged to come up with some stats to substantiate my concern. They probably thought I would just go away and take my uninformed opinions with me. No such luck!
I did some digging, and I therefore present for your consideration some numbers to consider when adjudging whether Uggla could replace Feliz on defense. I'll leave offense for another FanPost, or another day.
I figured I'd get numbers for Uggla and Feliz as well as, for comparison's sake, since they play different positions, one other generally well-regarded defensive player for each of their respective positions, - Utley and Ryan Zimmerman - and I'd get stats for each of the last two seasons. I got Runs Allowed Above Average 2 (adjusted RAA) from Baseball Prospectus; Ultimate Zone Rating from FanGraphs; and Range Factor from ESPN (also available as RF/9 on Baseball Reference). I was able to find NL rankings for 2B and 3B for the latter two stats but I can't find where BP gives rankings for RAA2.
RAA2 UZR UZR rank RF RF rank
Uggla 08 4 1.6 3d of 7 4.86 6th of 7
Uggla 09 13 -12.6 11th of 11 4.44 11th of 11
Utley 08 15 20.2 1st of 7 5.18 1st of 7
Utley 09 -8 11.2 1st of 11 5.05 3rd of 11
Feliz 08 -6 7.2 1st of 11 2.72 3rd of 11
Feliz 09 25 5.8 4th of 9 2.83 3rd of 10
Zims 08 -6 2.1 7th of 11 2.91 [would be 1st]
Zims 09 10 18.9 1st of 9 2.97 2nd of 10
And this tells us............ um, I dunno, you tell me. Between 08 and 09, Uggla and Feliz both supposedly get better by RAA2, but worse by UZR. Feliz and Zimmerman are supposedly six adjusted fielding runs below average in 2008 - the same season that Feliz was in the top three in the league by both UZR and RF. Utley's numbers are consistently very good, except for being 8 adjusted fielding runs below average this year. Uggla meanwhile has generally lousy numbers except for being 13 RAA2 in 09 and 3rd out of 7 in the league by UZR in 08.
Feliz comes out as best in the league (among qualifiers) at UZR in 2008, but not so good in RAA2 that year. The next year he was 25 adjusted runs above average :) but only 4th of 9 qualifiers in UZR :(.
In terms of my discussion with Jem and FM, there's evidence here that one could point to as support for a claim that Feliz is a good defender and Uggla a bad one, and that therefore we would have to assume that, in addition to the presumed difficulties of learning a new position, Uggla would bring along his generally subpar defense, and that that Phils defense would measurably and noticeably suffer.
But the data is ambiguous enough that I think you could equally well set it all aside as conflicting and inherently unreliable. So - I've met Jem & FM's challenge to dig up some numbers. But those numbers don't consistently support my argument that the Phils' defense would measurably and noticeably suffer if we swapped out Feliz for Uggla at 3rd base.
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Very nice work.
I wasn’t really disputing that Feliz is a better defender than Uggla. What matters, I think, is does Uggla’s superior offense make up for the runs that he is responsible for allowing on defense? I am still curious to see the total difference in offensive production between these two players and if I have time I will look into it.
In fairness
I found this article on FanGraphs that makes a pretty good case that UZR undervalues Uggla’s defense:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/marlin-range
I should also note that Zimmerman’s 08 RF is unranked because evidently he only played 104 games and thus wasn’t ranked among ESPN’s qualifiers; his rate would have placed him first among those who were ranked.
"I am the Walrus?..... I am the Walrus." - Donny Kerabatsos
I can't believe you're discussing this
You really want Uggla in a Phils uniform? Really? Feliz may be one of the more mediocre bats on this team, but I’ve got no problem with that: his defense is excellent and his offense is good enough. Have you looked at the rest of our line-up?
It’s not like Feliz is so bad we have to get rid of him and Uggla is a natural candidate. Uggla plays second base (remember?). I can only assume that the gentlemen involved in this debate have such affection for Dan Uggla that they are trying to find the best scenario for getting him in a Phillies uniform. That, to me, is extremely disturbing.
Uggla? Seriously?
Well, we all know what happens you make assumptions.
Part of the feliz debate comes down to how important you think defense is in terms of the aspects of the game…some people value it more highly than others…personally I’m tired of llight hitting defensive third baseman mostly because 3rd bseman are supposed to hit….and feliz/ruiz makes up a pretty weakass 7/8 in a batting order and i’d rather have a stronger 3rd base bat who struggles a bit more on defense than vice versa
Uggl just happened to come up in conversation and the idea was explored – no one had a ‘hard on’ for uggla as you seem to be implying…though obviously when you were little he kicked your ass and stole your lunch money
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 7, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
“obviously when you were little he kicked your ass and stole your lunch money”
So that’s what a punch in the kidneys looks like….
"I am the Walrus?..... I am the Walrus." - Donny Kerabatsos
by The Navigator on Oct 7, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Feliz does not have one of the more mediocre bats on the team. Of players who get regular plate appearances on this team, he has by far THE WORSE bat on the team. Oh, what’s that, you’re not satisfied? How about this: of starting 3rd basemen in the league, Pedro Feliz is the WORST offensive 3rd baseman.
And his defense is not “excellent”, it is slightly above average.
I was surprised to see it, but the numbers, broadly speaking, support FM here: on average, they show Feliz as above average but not truly excellent.
I will say, though, that doing this brief research confirmed my skepticism about the numbers. You’ve got different people reaching very different conclusions based on different supposedly ‘advanced’ numbers for the exact same players.
"I am the Walrus?..... I am the Walrus." - Donny Kerabatsos
by The Navigator on Oct 7, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

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