Phillies Breakfast Links, October 9: Leaving On a Jet Plane
I'm still confused whether the keys (or off-keys) to yesterday's strange game was Hamels' pitching, Manuel's bullpen maneuvers, the Phillies' double-play-itis, or some poor fielding decisions. Then I took a peek at the Denver Post, and apparently it had to do with either Jason Giambi's bp chatter or Tracy's lineup maneuvers. Or possibly True Grit. And you can't mention gritty without trying to solve the Utley problem. It was a bad day, but was it terrible? Victorino's ball in the 9th was just a few feet from tying the game. Ah, screw it. Let's just blame it on our rude fans.
Speaking of confused, who's going to start the next two (or three, if necessary) games for the Phillies? Charlie says we'll sort it all out on the plane flight to Denver for pivotal game 3. As Scott Lauber notes:
How much is at stake in Game 3?
Consider this: Since wild-card play started in 1995, 11 best-of-five NL Division Series have been tied after two games. The winner of Game 3 has won nine of those series. Only the 2002 Giants and the 2004 Astros lost a tie-breaking Game 3 in an NL divisional series and still advanced, both times by beating the Braves.
As birth stories go, this has to be one of the more unusual ones. Congratulations Heidi and Cole Hamels on the (pending) birth of your baby boy. (Note to Cole: As a father of two current t-ballers, it takes a lot of effort to get to this level.)
After two midweek playoff starts with predictably low ratings, the Phillies go to Colorado. If you want to look at how the other half is blogging, this along with Purple Row are good places to start. If you're keeping score, three out of the last four postseason games the Phillies have played have featured some pretty wild weather. But this is ridiculous. And if this is the way a sport treats its reigning champion, maybe second prize ain't so bad. Boy, you have a hand in one lowest-rated World Series ever, and it's like the boss takes it personally.
Aww, might as well jump...
So, you may be disappointed with the Phillies' loss yesterday. But be glad you're not a Cardinals fan. The silver lining for Holliday: he must have been wearing a cup. If the ball didn't quite get him in the jewels, maybe Adam Wainwright should kick him there. Or maybe this guy too.
We need to laugh a little after yesterday's debacle, or else you'll find yourself a little short-tempered at work today. Adorable Rockies indeed. Feh. And while we're poking around The Onion, I'll link to this one since the topic has had its own meme-like status on TGP.
Final questions:
Couldn't stay up? Neither could the Red Sox. Angels up 1-0.
Mystified by the lack of plate discipline? Perhaps now we know why the Phillies have been doing so much early-count swinging lately.
Want evidence that there's an effective closer in Philadelphia? Condolences to any alums out there.
Away from the Philadelphia area and homeslck for the local patois? The Daily News seems to be doing these videos daily.
Want evidence that Rick Reilly licks domes? At your service.
Get your rest, everyone, it's a travel day.
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55 comments
Comments
Wow... Say it again... Wow...
Conlin’s article is dead on…Charlie really threw convention to the wind yesterday. And we were all worried that he wasn’t taking the bullpen issues seriously enough. Talk about an overreaction. Using two potential game 3 starters in a losing effort? Letting Cliff Lee pinch run? How about letting Cole Hamels pitch in the first place? If Heidi was in the hospital and labor was imminent, maybe Charlie should have turned to someone else for game 2.
What did we just witness? It’s shocking. These are the kind of moves Fregosi should have been making in game 6 of the 1993 world series. Not in game two of the NLDS where we’re up a game. It smacks of panic. And listening to his postgame comments, it sounds like he’s just making these decisions on a whim. Whew.
Charlie better hope… no pray, that this works out. Otherwise, that truckload of goodwill he built up from last year is going to dissipate as quickly as a fart in the wind.
by Boundforbeach on Oct 9, 2009 8:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the reaction to Manual’s moves is actually pretty ridiculous. If Happ didnt get hurt, Blanton did poop on the field, and the Phillies had won it is possible that everyone would be gushing right now. As far as the game 3 start, both Blanton and Happ could go for Game 3. They didnt throw that many pitches, and there is a day off. For Game 4, Blanton and Happ will be more than fine. That is 2 days rest, if I calculate right after a small bull pen session. Some teams put there starting pitcher out after 3 days rest from a full 100 pitch or so game.
As far as Hamels goes, it is just as likely he would have to not go to CO (or miss his baby’s birth! haha) if he didnt pitch today. Labor being imminent can mean a long time, especially in terms of playoff baseball.
I think Manual’s decisions were fine (except maybe pinch running Lee, but that is pretty minor and Manual has his reasons).
How many times do managers make a bad choice, it works out, and then people say it was still a bad choice. Here Manual made at least neutral choices, they worked out as poorly as is probably concievable, and it is inconsistent to now say they are the worst choices ever made. They were semi neutral gambles, and they didnt work, but oh well.
by Whack8888 on Oct 9, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah – that’s why hind sight was 20-20
Go back and read the ‘game thread’ for yesterdays game – find all the people calling out charlie WHEN it happened – they were stupid moves – you have a bullpen – use it – if you have so little faith in your bullpen your postseason is doomed anyway.
I believed then and did now that charlies head was up his ass yesterday for reasons passing understanding…maybe he was on the nominating committee and knew about what the president was going to get this early morning and he was giddy.
Bringing in BOTH your possible game 3 starters in game 2 of a 5 game series doesn’t make any kind of sense to me -this wasn’t empty your bull pen there is no tomorrow – this was – you still get a few games left don’t shoot your wad now.
Charlie Manuel managed game 2 like a teenagers first time – he shot his wad way too fast.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was barely 17 and he was barely dressed.
never felt so good, never felt so right…
by Wet Luzinski on Oct 9, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So now I’m praying for the end of time
To hurry up and arrive
Cause if i have to spend another minute with you
I don’t really think I’m gonna survive
I’ll never break my promise or forget my vow
but lord only knows what i can do right now
I’m praying for the end of time, so I can end my time with you.
Seems fitting this morning
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking about that Leaving on a Jet Plane vibe. It will be a very strange and difficult way to end the season if the Phils get swept in Colorado, as the last two games’ worth of memories will be so bipolar. I’m hoping it doesn’t, but this morning it just feels that it’s set up to end this way.
by Wet Luzinski on Oct 9, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, well see, I was in a bit of a rage that if i were phillies GM i would have fired Charlie Manuel yesterday for what I perceived to be such a piss poor managing job that it possibly screwed up the entirety of this series.
So now i’m ready for the phils to jettison the 3rd baseman, the catcher (both for a while now) and the manager who probably earned a good 3-4 more years after the world series win last year…the phils are leaving – but they’re coming back.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterdays game you can see the Phillies had it. Well at least they had it in my eyes. The bats need to hit in all areas though, not the 2-6 slots. Feliz and Ruiz are really destroying the end of that lineup, and one pitch Jimmy needs to focus (I personally think alot of his game has gone to his head since he got that MVP award and started to think hes a power hitter).
Let’s win this next game. I got tickets to Game 2 in Philly for the NLCS yesterday and I would like to attend!
by Ant on Oct 9, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Start times
They’re absurd. Just crazy.
by David S. Cohen on Oct 9, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sunday’s start time really bothers me the most. Does make for a full sports day in Denver, however, as the Broncs take on the Pats.
by Wet Luzinski on Oct 9, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s semi-understandable if you start with the assumptions that (1) four games had to be scheduled that day, and (2) no double-booking is allowed. The other three games are all going to be Eastern and Central, while we’re in Mountain.
If the Dodgers complete a sweep on Saturday, though, they should move the Yankees game to 3:30 and our game to 7:00. Or at least move our game to 3:30. Fat chance of that happening though.
by taco pal on Oct 9, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean 7 philly or 7 local time? Just curios
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All times Eastern. So it would be 12:30 or 4:00 local. (Alternatively, since TBS has a flexible schedule (especially on Sundays), you could also get creative and, say, play one game at 4 Eastern and one game at 8 Eastern.)
by taco pal on Oct 9, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colorado is mountain time – so it’s actually 1:30/5 local isn’t it?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure i could look it up but someone here will know
what’s the sunday night NFL game?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s the likelihood that the scheduled start time changes if the dodgers sweep the cardinals – just think of it from a fan perspective if you have plans to come at one time and they suddenly change the start time – with less than 24 hours notice – that could be not the most ‘local’ fan friendly thing to do?
And is it really supposed to snow in denver in the first half of october? That seems not natural
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it depends. If you move the game to a more convenient time for locals, the good will probably outweigh the bad. 8:00 on a Sunday isn’t the worst time in the world, but I think a 5:00 or 6:00 Sunday start time would be even better. And even in Denver, many more fans will be watching on TV than going to the game.
by taco pal on Oct 9, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you think about it TBS is actually starting it earlier than they would want – they’ve alloted 3.5 hours for the first two games in a hope to avoid overlap but only 3 for the yankees games…they want to minimize over lap as much as possible -
What I’d do if I ran turner was take over TNT on Sunday and just have two games simultaneously to avoid this kind of craziness – but with only one station and 4 games they are kind of over a barrel and Colorado is the westernmost city a game is in.
The phillies and cardinals are to blame here…if they had finished one two in some sort – one of the sunday games would be in Los ANgeles instead of STL :)
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has Pedro pitched since he left that start early with a tweak in his neck?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, though not particularly well. How could you forget?
by taco pal on Oct 9, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cause for the last couple weeks of the season I was embroiled in too many classes – getting Keith Law data to meet his deadline and work emergencies that I was ignoring some things :)
Thanks
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So here’s a couple things that irritate me
Been a full 162 game season – could people please learn to pronounce JA Happ properly?
I don’t give TBS grief for their start times – but I must say – that I found it irritating that while most teams get ‘non specific’ announcers it was irritating to hear one of the NESN guys doing the Red Sox game last night.
If you believe in such things – Skip Bayless is on the phillies side – I don’t feel confident about that.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2nd guessing
It’s hard not to do, obvs, and it would probably be better to resist the urge.
But don’t you think the following factors would have led you to holding Hamels for game 3 and starting Blanton or Pedro?
- Phillies up 1-0 and playing with (a little bit of) house money in game 2. Why not save the big gun for a must win game 3 scenario?
- Hamels’ wife in labor, perhaps a little distracted?
- Hamels is a different pitcher in night games than he is in day games. Game 3 is at night.
I think trotting out Pedro is the right play given the situation, and I say that as a huge fan of the work of Joe Blanton (who would be my game 4 starter in this scenario).
by BigPhillyStyle on Oct 9, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Counter argument
You start your two best pitchers in the first two games.
Hamels is one of the phillies two best pitchers.
Period
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t necessarily accept your premise. Nothing changes if you’re up 1-0 instead of down 0-1?
by BigPhillyStyle on Oct 9, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why should it? You want to win the game either way. You put the pitcher out there who gives you the best chance to win.
"It was almost like if Harry didn't call it, it wasn't real." - Jayson Stark
by Chris Haines on Oct 9, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s alright, I don’t accept any of your premises (premisi?) either…but no – to me nothing changes if you’re up 1-0 or 0-1
There’s all this talk about who a #1 is or a #2 – you pitch your best pitchers ‘in order’ or what’s the point of a rotation….did the dodgers change their rotation cause they were up 1-0, will the yankees or angels change who pitches game 2 since they are up 1-0
Most of what you’re doing is reveisionist thinking.
ANswer this – before game 2 started – how did you feel about Hamels starting?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
During the game
the TBS guys said that since Heidi was so pregnant, Cole would not be making the trip to CO (since he wouldn’t be pitching). Now, I’m not sure how accurate that is, but it seems like she was more likely to go into labor while the team was CO, meaning he wouldn’t have been entirely focused then either.
Also, what jemagee said. 2-0 lead would be huge and Hamels gave you the best shot at that.
"It was almost like if Harry didn't call it, it wasn't real." - Jayson Stark
by Chris Haines on Oct 9, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll admit I haven’t been following Heidi’s pregnancy too closely. You make a good point about getting a start out of Hamels in Philly and leaving him home from the CO trip.
by BigPhillyStyle on Oct 9, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Mr Hamels
Next time, if the playoffs are approaching, please consider inducing so that this whole thing is taken care of before you pitch.
A concerned fan and child of an OB/GYN
Thank you for your support
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 10:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By the way
The rockies put up 5 runs against one of the phillies best pitchers and just barely escaped with a win.
I don’t know how much confidence they can expect to have right now, a few ‘lucky’ hits go to the phillies instead of the rockies and the phils DO win that game.
Of course you counter that with the rockies seeing both potential game 3 starters pitch already and the phils still undecided about a game 3 starter.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Philly Fans
The stories of fan behavior are getting ridiculous.
I have a great story about Game Four of last years world series that I’m tempted to tell. It involves Evan Longoria’s mother and her love of her middle finger -and showing it to Phillies
fans. Philly fan bashing is old.
by Pedro45 on Oct 9, 2009 11:24 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Hmm…so by tempted to tell it you meant – i’ll tell all the salient details but claim I didn’t tell it?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’ve really piqued my interest with this potentially salicious story that you can’t tell. Maybe you could sell the rights to TMZ. In the meantime, I guess I’ll just have to go pique my nose.
by Boundforbeach on Oct 9, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamels/labor issues
I’ve never before heard so much about labor issues in baseball without hearing the names of Marvin Miller or Donald Fehr. Regarding this somewhat different version of labor, consider the following:
1. Heidi Hamels was and has been very pregnant. She was not in labor prior to the game so far as I am aware. Labor comes when it comes. She (and he) should not be compelled to induce labor or make other major medical determinations based on the convenience of fans. That was offered tongue in cheek as a comment to this post, but it is obviously silly.
2. Nobody knew when the ball would drop, so to speak. This is not New Year’s Eve at Times Square. You also can’t put Hamels on the DL with “anxiety pending wife going into labor” for possibly a few weeks — life goes on.
3. Hamels should have started because: (a) Happ is a rookie, and (b) the Rockies have awful platoon splits versus lefties, and © Hamels was the remaining lefty starter option after Lee and after Happ is excluded (I am assuming Hamels’ experience and prior performance were worth considering, which is admittedly a big leap), and (d) Hamels has been inconsistently decent, albeit with fairly bad luck this year on BABIP.
4. Personal drama does not preclude good performances. To wit (and I’m going anecdotal here): (a) Pete Rose getting divorced during his 44 game hitting streak, (b) Brett Favre on MNF against the Raiders the night after his father died, © my wife going into labor between days 1 and 2 of my first felony criminal trial: I had about 2 hours of sleep and, while the case was lost at trial, I was able to cultivate enough issues to win the case on appeal. With the client bailed the whole time, he dodged a significant jail sentence on a burglary. In case you missed it, I got a Web Gem for it.
The point being that labor (or another similar significant personal event), in and of itself, is not necessarily a debilitating condition. People can perform at a high level under personally stressful events.
To simply assert that Hamels should have been held back because of a possible, but uncertainly-timed, incidence of labor is not really supported clearly by anything I’ve heard or read so far. I an unaware of any statistical body of work to suggest that it is a help or hindrance to professional athletes, or starting pitchers in particular.
In short, the whole tenor of this “he should have been held out because Heidi was about to drop” smells like unsupportable bullshit.
There’s a vein of wishful thinking in it that we want to believe. It goes like this: The possibility of a spouse going into labor with a first child is so emotionally overwhelming that it must affect job performance. It seems so plausible on its face that it “must be true.” The idea is therefore adopted uncritically, since everyone just gives it a pass without examining it further. I call bullshit.
Finally, while he wasn’t lights out, Hamels hardly crapped the bed yesterday. He had 5 strikeouts and 0 walks. He gave up 7 hits and four runs (should have been 3) in 5 innings. The homer is on him, but this was hardly a meltdown.
With tighter defense in the first, he probably goes 7 innings, because I don’t think you pinch hit for him in the bottom of the fifth and his spot wasn’t up till the bottom of the seventh. It’s a whole different game. Of course, if my uncle had tits, he’d be my aunt, but there you go. I am not worried about Hamels, nor am I upset that he started yesterday.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Oct 9, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It’s actually kind of a welcome sight to see the media all freaking out over the game and generally turning every questionable thing that happened into a soap opera. Just goes to show that the Phillies are now getting the same kind of coverage that the Eagles get. Still, the city needs to call the #@#$ down. We’re still in pretty good shape in this series.
by taco pal on Oct 9, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree. Manuel still has the rotation intact. And let’s not forget he’s got two full days of rest and neither Happ nor Blanton threw all that many pitches.
Perspective also exists on the link I included about being a Cardinals fan. That overflow thread got completely out of hand.
by Wet Luzinski on Oct 9, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we just tell our players that fucking without contraception in January and February is strictly off limits?
by SJPhillyVT on Oct 9, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How do you know it's Cole's baby?
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Oct 9, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A. Cole Hamels can get anyone he wants pregnant just by thinking about it – obviously
B. It’s Cole Hamels baby because Cole Hamels thinks it’s cole hamels baby, if he wanted it, you’d be his baby, just by deciding it’s so.
Jeez people
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I am not his baby
I am his bitch.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Oct 9, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he told me the same thing! That lying …..
by Wet Luzinski on Oct 9, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh please, you know you’re just gonna take him back again.
by taco pal on Oct 9, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, Cole's going to take my back again.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Oct 9, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you for some reason think Cole Hamels is limited to only one bitch? We are ALL his bitches.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
He is Cole Hamels.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Oct 9, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He used contraception. His sperm are so potent that they ate their way right through the rubber.
by FuquaManuel on Oct 9, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please – the force with which his ejaculate travels they just puncture it – no freaking eating involved
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know, having corrosive sperm sounds more gully than having sperm that is ejaculated with such force that it can puncture things.
by FuquaManuel on Oct 9, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh i thought you were implying that his sperm has some sort of mouth receptacle that fed on rubber….maybe they are part mercury too?
That would explain a lot (except of course to people who have no idea why i brought up mercury in the first place :) )
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 9, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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