Analyzing the Third Base Candidates: Free Agents
The 2010 Philadelphia Phillies aren't likely to be all that dissimilar from the 2009 version that came within two wins of taking home back-to-back World Series titles; 7 of the 8 starting field players return, along with the top 4 starters and much of the bullpen. Given that fact, it's obvious that general manager Ruben Amaro needn't do much to run out a title contender yet again next year.
Yet that single opening in the starting lineup is a glaring one: third base, where the Phillies haven't really found an acceptable solution since trading Scott Rolen away midway through the 2001 season. In a city where the greatest third baseman of all time plied his trade, this is certainly a disappointing development. Thankfully, third base appears to be Amaro's top priority this offseason, and while the term "buyer's market" may be a bit strong, the Phillies nonetheless look well-positioned to address this long-standing need.
So who's available? There are a number of free agents that fit the bill. Who knows how Amaro views these candidates -- TGP has disagreed fundamentally with Rube over free agent value before -- but for what it's worth, here's a look at the key free agent third basemen: Adrian Beltre, Chone Figgins, Mark DeRosa, Placido Polanco, Miguel Tejada, Troy Glaus, and Melvin Mora.
Adrian Beltre
Background: 31 years old, Type B free agent (most recent club: Seattle Mariners)
Upside: Beltre is the youngest of the free agent options, and he's also the best fielder. He's been worth 27 runs with the glove over the past 2 years (according to UZR), and he hasn't shown signs of slowing down. He's flashed decent power throughout his career (.183 ISO), and as a right-handed hitter, he should benefit immensely by moving from Safeco to OFJOAB.
Downside: Beltre won't make anyone forget about Pedro Feliz's impatience at the dish; he's a notorious hacker who has only walked in 7.1% of his career plate appearances. He was banged up this past year and only played 111 games, but the silver lining to that is that it could drive down his asking price. Prior to that, he had played 143 games or more in 7 straight years.
Quick take: He's the best of the free agent options unless Figgins drops his demands significantly.
Chone Figgins
Background: 32 years old, Type A free agent (most recent club: Los Angeles Angels)
Upside: Figgins has grown from super-utility guy extraordinaire to an excellent third baseman and leadoff man. A switch-hitter, Figgins drew walks in a career best 14.1% of his plate appearances this year, helping him to a career best .395 OBP. He's got good speed (42 SB this year, although 17 CS), and has grown into a great fielder at the hot corner, posting an astounding 16.7 UZR this year.
Downside: His career year has Figgins in line for a substantial payday, with his demands reported to be in the 5 years, $50 million range. As a slap hitter (career .388 SLG) whose game is built on speed, he's likely to have already peaked, and the downward career slope for such players is often quick and painful.
Quick take: Buying high on Figgins seems risky. If he'll lower his demands into the Ibanez range (3 years, $31.5 million), then maybe the Phils will have some interest, but that seems unlikely.
Mark DeRosa
Background: 35 years old, Type B free agent (most recent club: St. Louis Cardinals)
Upside: DeRosa has made a nice career for himself as a right-handed super-utility guy capable of playing pretty much everywhere but catcher and center field. He's exhibited greater patience and power in recent years, and he was outstanding for the Cubs in 2008, hitting .285/.376/.481.
Downside: You mean, other than the fact that he's a 35-year old coming off wrist surgery, a .250/.319/.433 year, and he's a pretty poor defender at the hot corner (-8.7 UZR/150 in 2009)?
Quick take: The former Penn QB angle is nice for sportswriters, but unless the Phillies miss out on a bunch of targets and DeRosa lowers his demands, I'd pass.
Placido Polanco
Background: 35 years old, Type A free agent (most recent club: Detroit Tigers)
Upside: The former Phillie is a solid if unspectacular player, displaying great contact skills over the course of his career (a mere 7.1% K) that make him a tough out. He's been an excellent defender at second base over the years, and he's said that he'd consider moving to third base for a contender; his arm isn't ideal for the hot corner, but his career 9.9 UZR/150 at the position indicate that he'd likely be fine there.
Downside: He'd be nothing more than a 1- or 2-year stopgap, and if the Tigers offer him arbitration, there's no way I'd want to surrender a 1st round pick for him. His career BB% is just one tenth of a percent higher than Feliz (5.4% to 5.3%), and he has nearly as little power as Figgins (.111 career ISO), so while his batting average may look nice, he's not all that valuable of a hitter unless he maintains an above-average BABIP.
Quick take: Detroit has until December 1 to offer him arbitration, and if they don't, the Phillies could certainly do worse than Polanco as a low-cost stopgap if they miss out on some of their bigger targets.
Miguel Tejada
Background: 35 years old, Type A free agent (most recent club: Houston Astros)
Upside: Like Polanco, Tejada would be switching positions, and no one's positive yet that Tejada won't find a gig masquerading as a shortstop somewhere. The power he flashed at his peak has receded, but he still posted a .298/.327/.435 line in Houston over the past two years. He's a contact-oriented free swinger, striking out just in just 9.8% of his at bats the past 3 years.
Downside: Tejada walked just 19 times in 674 plate appearances this year -- a mind-numbing 2.7% of the time. It's an open question how his subpar defense at short would translate to third base, and the Phillies seem to think that his reputation will command a contract that's beyond what they're looking to hand out.
Quick take: Sounds like the Phils will pass, which is a good idea given the rapid down slope of Tejada's production the past few years.
Troy Glaus
Background: 33 years old, Type B free agent (most recent club: St. Louis Cardinals)
Upside: When healthy, Glaus is a right-handed slugger who exhibits both patience and power. In 2008 with the Cardinals, he hit .270/.372/.483 with 27 HR and excellent control of the strike zone (13.8% K, 19.1% BB). And he's probably be available on a low-cost deal because...
Downside: ...he's not healthy. The Cardinals gave him only 4 starts all year at third base because they feared his surgically repaired shoulder just wasn't capable of making the throw across the diamond. Even healthy, he's not nearly as good a defender as the mainstream media would have you believe (career -5.4 UZR/150). The odds of him playing 130 games next year are, to be charitable, not good.
Quick take: There are simply too many medical red flags for the Phillies to entrust their third base job to Glaus.
Melvin Mora
Background: 38 years old, Type B free agent (most recent club: Baltimore Orioles)
Upside: He'd probably come cheaply. He's a career .278/.352/.436 hitter, but both his OBP and SLG have been down in recent years as he's adopted a more contact-oriented approach to compensate for the effects of aging.
Downside: He's an average at best defensive player (career -2.8 UZR/150 at third base), and... well, he's 38 years old. He could make some sense as a right-handed bench bat capable of playing all four corner positions, but his days as a first division starter are well behind.
Quick take: I will personally drive to Citizens Bank Park and heckle Ruben Amaro if he's even remotely considering Mora as a full-time starter at third base.
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On Monday, we'll tackle the potential trade candidates at the hot corner. In the meantime, what do you think about the free agent bunch? Would you prefer the organization go for broke to sign Figgins, or sign one of the "lesser" options and spend the savings elsewhere? Or are you pleading the fifth until you see what's available on the trade market?
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Chone is, by far, the most intriquing since he can bat lead off and allow Charlie to tinker with the lineup. How many times this year have we heard the cliche, “as Rollins goes, the Philles go.” With our big bats, getting the leadoff guys on base seems so crucial. And the guy is multi-dimensional and can play different positions. My vote is to go all-in for him UNLESS this will affect our ability to extend Cliff Lee. That said, I’ll be somewhat shocked if we ink him.
The biggest rub here is that he’s a Type A free agent, so the Phillies would forfeit their first round pick to sign him. I don’t relish the idea of losing the first round pick two drafts in a row.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
well, we’re drafting around 26th so it won’t be like losing a top ten pick. I could live with that for Chone, but forfeiting that pick for Polanco or Tejada would hurt.
by Boundforbeach on Nov 13, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
A team cannot forfeit a top 15 draft pick by signing a Type A free agent, but maybe you knew that. Teams drafting in the top 15 instead forfeit their second round pick.
With a Figgins signing, as with most things, the devil would be in the details (i.e., length of contract, dollars, back loaded, etc.)
I can absolutely conceive of a “good contract” for Figgins but I’m not optimistic it would actually happen.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Nov 13, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
No, I wasn’t aware of that. Thnx. Also, in terms of FA’s, I think Ruben said he wouldn’t rule out bring back Pedro. I wonder what kind of contract he might fetch.
by Boundforbeach on Nov 13, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Crummy group
Nice rundown, but that’s a crummy group of free agents after Figgins. Some might make us long for the days of Pedro Feliz’s patience at the plate.
Any way we can make a trade for Longoria?
Evan Longoria is a great hitter, a young guy at 24, and already has a nine year $44M contract in place. If we have the prospects to get him, he will be a cheap long term option.
by CountryRoads_to_a_WFC on Nov 13, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
We could start by offering Utley and Hamels. Friedman would still hang up the phone, but at least he’d pause for a split second.
Longoria may be the most valuable commodity in baseball at this point (Dave Cameron seems to think so). We can dream about it, but it won’t happen in a million years.
Isn’t that kind of like asking if you could get A-Rod when Seattle still had him under contorl?
by jemagee on Nov 13, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I like this idea. Make it happen Rubes.
/sarcasm
by FuquaManuel on Nov 13, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
This will happen right after JIBTA’s imaginary Victorino for Cain trade. If Ruben could trade for Longoria, I’d begin building building St. Ruben churches.
Is a low K rate really a plus?
Does a low K rate really make someone a tough out if it doesn’t come with a high walk rate or serious power?
Several of the options sound like frequent GIDP candidates, especially with the likelihood of runners on base ahead of them with the Phillies’ line up.
All other things being equal, it’s always better to have a low K rate than a high K rate.
The correct sabermetric position is that the significance of K rates is overstated, not that they don’t matter at all.
What he said.
Strikeouts are the worst possible outcome for a hitter according to run expectancy tables, so putting the ball in play (and risking the odd GIDP) is generally a good thing. Also, in general, if you subscribe to the idea that BABIP normalizes in the .300 range, putting the ball in play more often will lead to more hits.*
*Granted, this is more true for guys like Polanco and Tejada who have an uncanny ability to barrel up the ball, and less true for guys like Feliz who make weak contact.
by PhillyFriar on Nov 13, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Too bad it is practically impossible for everything else to be equal.
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
It isn’t really such a bad thing. If it were, we would have to eliminate every field of social science from every college curriculum, among other things.
Then there’d be more money for real sciences
by jemagee on Nov 16, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I vote Beltre, maybe CBP (or just not the Mariners home park) + the Phils current lineup would have a similar effect that it did on Ibanez.
by philiafan14364 on Nov 13, 2009 11:12 AM EST reply actions
Over performing for a couple of months and then sliding back closer to his career averages?
by jemagee on Nov 13, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Actually – for the season his OBP and BA were below career averages and his SLG was above – career high in homeruns at 37 – i think that’s definitely sustainable.
PS – according to yahoo he made about 7.5 million last year so he’s not 2 years 20 – he’s 2 years 22.5
by jemagee on Nov 13, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
how does that make any sense?
if he’s 7.5 mil a year and u give him two years its 15, why are u subtracting from 30?
Because the reported deal was 3 years 30 million and yahoo says he made 7.16 million last year.
So it’s actually slightly more than 22.5 for the next 2 years…
the reported deal wasn’t 3 years at 22 million now was it?
So as he gets older and closer to 40 they pay him more – that’s awesome
by jemagee on Nov 13, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
oh so his contract was top heavy
well i don’t think he’s worth that now after coming off an injury plagued season and with the other third basemen on the market team might want to sign a sure thing. Although there doesn’t seem to be one besides figgins for the next 3 years. After that who knows what he’ll be putting up
If the total amount of a guaranteed contract is fixed, it’s almost always better to backload it because of the time-value of money. The fact that Ibanez will be making more when he’s (presumably) a worse player is irrelevant if the total is the same.
Setting that aside, I believe he also had a $2 million signing bonus, which may or may not be included in that Yahoo figure. On the flipside, I believe the total size of the contract was $31 million, not $30 million.
I prefer front loaded contracts, they are paid more when they will perform better so you’re getting a better ‘value’ from them and as their skills deteriorate – so does their pay
by jemagee on Nov 13, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Unless you’re raul ibanez and the phillies :)
Also – front loaded contracts – they give you more money to spend as the player ages and gets to the end of their contract…which sort of makes sense to me as well.
Then again, 3 years for a 36 year old left fielder never made sense to me anyway
by jemagee on Nov 13, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Front loading also makes the player easier to trade. Raul’s backloaded deal makes him harder to move, if Ruben were so inclined.
I would imagine for some teams at least that accounting has an effect. If you’ve got some big contracts coming off the books in a couple years, you may want to backload a contract so the money is paid out when you’ve got room in the budget.
Oh I get the accounting side – I just think that accounting should be a tertiary consideration when signing a deal.
by jemagee on Nov 13, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
No, over performing, and then tearing his groin…
by philiafan14364 on Nov 13, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Can we get Beltre with a side order of DeRosa?
I would love to get Figgins, but like mentioned above, I dont want it to affect signing Lee long term. He should be priority 1. The yanks, mets, angels, etc are going to get into a war over this guy and i’d rather it not be a mistake in 3 years.
I would be more than happy with Beltre as our 3B for the next 3-4 years. Good hitter in a large park, and we saw what Ibanez did coming over before his injuries.
If we can get him at a good, low salary, do we have enough money to make a run at DeRosa as a super sub? We’ve seen what Utley can do when he is not as run down, Ibanez is coming off surgery and Rollins/Werth/new 3B could get a rest without hurting the lineup too badly. DeRosa could get as many as 2-3 starts per week in the dog days, and PH appearances regularly.
I worry about moving either Polanco or Tejada to third this late in their carrers…is there any precedent for a player moving to 3B and having success. ( I can think of only A-Rod, and he was much younger – 5 years- when he made the switch, as well as being a better athlete, with or without roids.). Mora has been a good contact hitter, but we would need to look for someone new in the next 1-2 years.
Another reply to myself (I wish there was an edit feature).
Melvin Mora played 26 career innings at 3B before becoming a full-time 3B at 32 years old and he’s been decent.
At least Polanco has over 2000 career innings played at 3B. It’s nothing new to him. he just hasn’t done it recently. I’d hope he’d be more of a backup plan to Beltre/Figgins though.
Not a great bunch of options.
If Beltre would come at something like 3 years, $25 million, that works for me—if the medical guys conclude that he’s not a chronic health risk going forward. Otherwise, Polanco on a one or two-year deal at no more than $5-6 million per is uninspiring but okay.
Unless PhillyFriar knows something I don’t (which is entirely possible), the trade guys are people like Andy LaRoche and Kevin Kouzmanoff—also not guys I find thrilling. At that point, I’m thinking semi-seriously about bidding on Garrett Atkins after the Rockies release him, putting him in some kind of job-share with Dobbs, and signing some defensive wizard to come in late in games.
And yes, I realize this is basically the 2007 idea (Helms/Dobbs/Nunez) redone three years later. And no, I’m not real happy about that.
THE CURSE OF SCOTT ROLEN LIVES!
alex gordon is probably on the trade block as well, but he’s a lefty. Don’t really need another one of those…
The list of trade targets isn’t overwhelming either, but there are some guys (like Gordon and Brandon Wood) that are worth inquiring about. All in all, Beltre is probably the best option, but past that, you get into some tough choices; for instance, I’d rather trade for LaRoche than sign a Type A free agent like Miguel Tejada.
I would say Beltre if he’s healthy. Figgins would be nice, but there are several problems with him: he would want a lot of money, he’s a Type A free agent, and he’ll be getting paid based on last year, which was a career year for him. I’d say if you can’t get Beltre, might as well just try to resign Feliz at a lower rate. None of these guys are anything special.
I guess some of this depends on what the organization’s mentality is. Does anyone think a move like the trade for Lee suggests that the Phils wouldn’t be looking for a short term or stopgap? Are they more likely to go after a guy that makes them significantly better for one or two more runs at a title?
Well, as Lee appears to be determined to play out his contract and then go for the big payday, I think the Phillies need to be looking at a short term or stopgap player who also makes them significantly better for the next season or two.
For my money, that’s Beltre (the usual caveats about health apply, of course). I think he’s a better fit and he definitely has the most upside with the bat.
Question for Phillies fans...
Does Ruben Amaro work and play well with Scott Boras?
If not, you might not be able to sign Beltre.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Don't know
He’s only going into his second season as GM—but he did do a deal with Ryan Madson last season and Scott Boras is his agent. So there is that precedent.
Thanks.
I was remembering J. D. Drew, though that was many years ago.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Yes
And the Phillies learned a big lesson in that mess, but they were a much different team back then, and one that was not very intent on building a WS contender.
i put the JD Drew fiasco wholly on Drew and Boras.
Any jackass who tries to hide from his registered letter so he can claim he was never contacted and try to become a free agent is not someone I want in my organization.
Drew’s bullshit cost him the shot at a potential hall of fame career so he could make some extra money.
The MLB draft is in place to help the bad teams find good players. It irritates the shit out of me when foriegn players try to bypass the draft as well as clowns like drew. MLB needs a sliding salary wage scale for draftees and amateur foreign guys have to go through the draft.
Foreign pros like Ichiro and Dice-K don’t bug me as much because you have a realistic body of evidence to assess how good they are and make sound business decisions as to how much money to pay them as a free agent. JD Drew could’ve been Todd Van Poppel.
Drew’s bullshit cost him the shot at a potential hall of fame career so he could make some extra money.
No, it didn’t, Drew’s injury history and inconsistent play cost him a potential hall of fame career…if he had played to the hype – the draft thing wouldn’t have mattered one iota.
Josh Hamilton being an idiot cost him a hall of fame career probably, plus, possibly, the ability to make it through a 162 game season even when he’s clean.
But Drew refusing to sign with the phillies didn’t cost him a HOF career, not being good or healthy is what cost him a HOF career. One year didn’t kill him performance wise
by jemagee on Nov 14, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
and wouldn’t have been a bad FA signing later, but the sour taste prevented it.
by Wet Luzinski on Nov 14, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
and wouldn’t have been a bad FA signing later, but the sour taste prevented it.
by Wet Luzinski on Nov 14, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
This does bring to mind a question I have no expertise whatsoever to answer: are there any capable Japanese 3B out there? Not that Ichiros grow on trees, but I’d imagine by their training a high-contact, high OBP guy with plus fielding skills could come in handy.
by Wet Luzinski on Nov 14, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t know either, but they don’t seem to have many stand out third baggers in Asia. I don’t think a single Asian ballplayer has ever made MLB as a third baseman.
I take that back
Looks like Iwamura didn’t play 3B in 2008 except for one year; Willy Aybar played until Longoria took over.
Regardless, Iwamura’s natural position is still 3B, I think.
Yeah, but if he couldn’t stick at the position, I think it still holds that Asia hasn’t really produced anyone at that position for MLB. If Luzinski is looking for someone to take over third for the Phillies, if the best Asian candidate so far is a guy who couldn’t beat out Willy Aybar, then I wouldn’t get my hopes up.
beltre
beltre is the only big upgrade .. i wouldnt mind tejada but that type a sucks ..
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 15, 2009 12:42 PM EST reply actions
So that would mean the philies should in no way sign Beltre?
by jemagee on Nov 15, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Non-Phillie fan with a question
I know Pedro’s option was declined, and reasonably so, as he probably wasn’t worth 5 million.
But has there been any talk of just bringing back Pedro at a lower salary? Would you guys be up in arms about a 3m dollar contract?
Give -peace- Ryan Garko a chance.
Non-Phillie fan with a question
I know Pedro’s option was declined, and reasonably so, as he probably wasn’t worth 5 million.
But has there been any talk of just bringing back Pedro at a lower salary? Would you guys be up in arms about a 3m dollar contract?
Give -peace- Ryan Garko a chance.
Beltre is the only FA I’d be interested in. A couple of the young trade options intrigue me. As much as I love Michael Taylor, I’d consider Taylor for Wood. And I think LaRoche might be a good choice, too, but I wonder if Pittsburgh would really try to rob us blind.
Minor league reviews at philliesphans.com. Also check out http://phillychuck.blogspot.com/ for prospect pics and analysis.
Options
Now that Bruntlett is gone I say we get Polanco on waivers in December as a utility infielder and either Adrian Beltre at 3rd or bring back Feliz at a lower salary. That significantly upgrades our hitting (Polanco over Bruntlett) and gives us a guy who can spell Feliz and Utley with little or no drop at defense or at bats.
Utley can use more rest as well as Feliz. They’ve both played banged up the past two years but we had no bench player who could take over without really dropping our run production. I’m not sure Polanco would take the utility spot but if it was more of a platoon of 3rd with Feliz or another it might work out. Our bench play really suffered this year, and we need to upgrade it big time if we are going to beat the Yankees. If they can pay starters to ride the bench and come in as utility hitters than so can we. That is the one advantage that AL has over NL teams with the DH.
by Fillyfaninforeignland on Nov 17, 2009 4:13 AM EST reply actions
I doubt Polanco takes a bench spot. Even worse, if you sign Polanco and Beltre, you have likely spent well over 10 Million to replace two guys who total around half that amount.
Also, if Feliz was brought back with Polanco I would almost rather have Polanco start and Feliz be the late inning defensive replacement.

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