Gut Kick Symmetry: Yankees 7, Phillies 4
When this World Series started, most experts picked the AL Champion Yankees based on two factors: their relative imperviousness, on both sides of the ball, to the Phillies' lefty hitters and pitchers, and the enormous advantage they had at the back end of the bullpen with super-closer Mariano Rivera contrasted against agonizingly hittable Phillies closer Brad Lidge.
Four games in, the experts are looking pretty good. Yankee starter CC Sabathia and southpaw reliever Damaso Marte weren't quite as dominant over the Phils' lefty bats as Andy Pettitte in Game Three--thanks almost entirely to Chase Utley, who got Sabathia again for an RBI double and solo homer--but he kept Ryan Howard contained and had his way altogether with Raul Ibanez. And Lidge, after getting one strike away from sending the game to the bottom of the ninth tied, melted down yet again to allow three ninth inning runs. Rivera then came on to set down the Phils 1-2-3, and the Yankees drew within one game of the championship. Charlie Manuel, whose poor in-game tactics contributed significantly to the Game Three loss, bears much of the blame again for getting fooled by Lidge's chimerical success against the Rockies and Dodgers. That he had a few minutes of warning signs before the axe fell, and still didn't make the move, is salt in the wound.
To be fair, Manuel's first gut-call move tonight--starting Joe Blanton, idle for the better part of two weeks, rather than Cliff Lee on short rest--worked out far better than I expected it would. After a shaky start to the game with two Yankee runs in the first, Blanton set down 11 in a row and allowed the Phils to tie it up on Utley's first-inning double and a Pedro Feliz RBI single in the fourth. But a leadoff walk to Nick Swisher in the fifth proved costly: Melky Cabrera followed with an infield single, and after Sabathia struck out trying to bunt, Derek Jeter untied the game with a seeing-eye single. Johnny Damon followed with a bloop to score Cabrera, and the Yanks led 4-2. Blanton ultimately left after six solid innings, allowing five hits and two walks and striking out seven.
Utley's solo homer off Sabathia in the 7th--a near dead ringer for the second shot he belted in Yankee Stadium last Wednesday--drew the Phils within a run and chased the large lefty, who was impressive on three days' rest with 6 2/3 innings of seven-hit, three-walk, six strikeout work. Marte followed by retiring Howard, who went 1-4, to end the frame. After Ryan Madson held off the Yankees in the eighth, Joba Chamberlain came out for the bottom of the inning and struck out Jayson Werth and Ibanez, who had an awful night with three Ks among his four hitless at-bats. But Feliz battled back after falling behind, and re-tied the game on a full-count solo home run to left that briefly electrified South Philadelphia.
That brought on Lidge. Admittedly, he fooled me too at first: a popup of pinch-hitter Hideki Matsui and a rousing strikeout of Jeter. But after getting ahead of Damon 1-2, he couldn't close the deal: two balls and several fouls later, the veteran served a single into left. Then disaster struck: Damon took off for second, and with the Phillies infield in a shift for Mark Teixiera, Feliz fielded Carlos Ruiz's throw--and watched helplessly as Damon ran to third.
Now clearly rattled, Lidge hit Teixiera with a pitch, putting runners on the corners for Alex Rodriguez. Rodriguez took a strike looking, then smashed a double to left that scored Damon. Jorge Posada followed with the coup de grace, a single to the gap in left-center that scored two more.
Manuel has gone with his gut and his guys--the guys we all love for what they did in 2008. But Cole Hamels faltered last night, and Lidge did tonight. Now the Phillies, needing a comeback that would be little short of miraculous, send their 2009 hero, Cliff Lee, to the mound for Game Five hoping to get one more train trip to New York.
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A problem that was never fixed because Lidge was Charlie’s “guy.”
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Nov 2, 2009 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i gotta say..... the 9th inning was a huge heartbreaker for us
eff you we winning anyway
by eagleswin on Nov 2, 2009 12:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
you don’t say?
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Nov 2, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree with this synopsis
lidge looked just fine through the first two batters, no need to get fooled, he had good stuff, when should manuel take lidge out?? he had two outs with no one on base, no reason to remove him then, your dislike for brad lidge this year has you not seeing the facts, the yankees are absolutely the luckiest team in baseball, bar none, they hit more bloop hits then i have ever seen, and the texeira shift? give me a break, lidge hit tex, if he does not hit tex, he gets tex out, once he hit tex i knew facing a-rod was not a good idea, he should have stuck with his slider, ruiz can block that puppy just fine, he should not have gotten away from it
by PhilsForever on Nov 2, 2009 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
How many times this year did Lidge look OK for a batter or two, then completely disintegrate? This was practically scripted from the regular season’s DNA.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Nov 2, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
All it takes is a walk or a bloop single. Then the runner takes second and Lidge freaks out.
by Screen Name 20 on Nov 2, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees were hit-lucky in the 5th—not so much in the 9th.
by phila on Nov 2, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Lidge: -.438 WPA.
That about says it all, no? There was no more apropos way for the SS 2009 Phillies to scuttle itself.
It really stings that the Phils just needed one of the past three games to be in good shape right now, and Game 2 and Game 4 were both there for the taking.
by PhillyFriar on Nov 2, 2009 12:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes...Cliff Lee in Game 5 Would have looked like a good move
Commentators have been saying how bad a decision to start Cliff Lee in Game 5 on regular rest. But if the Phillies had won just one of the past 3 games, the series would be knotted at 2 each, with Lee starting Game 5…good opportunity to seize the momentum and go ahead 3-2.
by JWoody on Nov 2, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know Posada ended up getting a hit,
but I still think Lidge should’ve walked Arod.
by Pfisher518 on Nov 2, 2009 12:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Load the bases?
Then a walk forces in the leading run.
by GMan83201 on Nov 2, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know it’s been eight seasons since you won—and hey, credit to the Yankees because a lesser organization may have looked at the results in those years and begun to rethink spending tons of money on free agents—but I assure you dissecting the logic of the opposition’s fans is not really all that fun after a big win.
by phila on Nov 2, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't read that whole paragraph
I’m not patient enough. I will assume it was a clever insult, to which I say: well played.
by GMan83201 on Nov 2, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you patient enough to respond but not to read the paragraph? makes sense…
by Clyde Simmons on Nov 2, 2009 7:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Posada is less dangerous than A-Rod
And A-Rod was 2-3 with a HR against Lidge in his career (I know, small sample size, but A-Rod has been killing closers all postseason).
by YankeesRock on Nov 2, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, it was kinda Lidge’s fault that Damon took 3rd on the stolen base. He should have gone to cover the vacant third as soon as he saw Feliz fielding the throw.
by FuquaManuel on Nov 2, 2009 12:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That whole play confused me. Have the Phillies played shifts before with Lidge pitching? Have they been shifting on Texeira this series and somehow I didn’t notice it? I was completely fooled during the play as it happened, as I thought, great, Damon overslid the bag and he’s going to be tagged out, just throw the ball to third …. what the ???
I know it’s hard to see how that play doesn’t involve Lidge, but did he even realize what the possibility was? If you (the Phillies coaching staff) are going to set up something unusual don’t you have a responsibility to remind the players what the situation is? After what happened on that play it wasn’t surprising to see Lidge get rattled. I imagine it would have rattled any pitcher out there in that situation.
by phillyinportland on Nov 2, 2009 1:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
nope, wrong again
manuel said in the press conference, it was ruiz’s responsibility to cover third, that was such a fluky play, another lucky yankee break
by PhilsForever on Nov 2, 2009 1:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You have to admit that was heads up base running by Damon
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Nov 2, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one is saying $201 million doesn’t buy you a good team.
by phila on Nov 2, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, cause after that piss poor performance from Lidge pitching Manuel will put salt on his wounds publicly…
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As a Yankee fan --
It was a good game, guys. I know you don’t want to hear it, but I feel that, after spending the ALCS reading what those whiny-ass Angels fans had to say on their blog posts, I have to congratulate you guys on taking it like men and not whining about how many things “went against you.” Two great teams going at it here. Even when Feliz tied it up and I thought we were going down, I said to myself — what a great series.
Salud and we will see you tomorrow night.
by Solomon96 on Nov 2, 2009 1:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You must see how this is a condescending post right?
by phila on Nov 2, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You want some salsa with all those chips?
"It's only fun if you win, Skip." -- Me.
by Paul O'Neill on Nov 2, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s been so long since Yankee fans won anything relevant they forgot how to be gracious about it – you’d think with all that choking experience the past 8 years or so they’d be more gracious
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I refuse to acknowledge all of the Yankees World Series titles that came before black people were allowed in the major leagues.
by FuquaManuel on Nov 2, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Take your goddamned olive branch and shove it. No one wants to hear this shit right now.
Something that has annoyed me to no end about the culture of sports blogs is the opposing team fan who shows up after a tough loss to offer their completely insincere and condescending condolences. Go celebrate amongst your damn selves, but don’t show up here and pretend to be nice…it doesn’t make us feel any better.
by FuquaManuel on Nov 2, 2009 2:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They just want you to recognize that their team winning is good for baseball. Is that so much to ask?
by phila on Nov 2, 2009 2:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just ignore those losers. Discussing baseball online is fun. Getting into trash-talk piss fights with random Internet losers is a waste of time. If you met those guys in person you wouldn’t care what they thought, so don’t make more out of it than it is.
by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good point
I don’t see the point win or lose to go to another team’s blog
by j reed on Nov 2, 2009 2:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What happned to this team man……..We were looking so good in game 1…cole hamels u dissapoint me man……rollins and victorino can’t get on base…and ryan howard is striking out left and right…..we need to get this together or else we are done…..come on cliff lee win one more for us baby….we still have a chance
by eaglesfan20 on Nov 2, 2009 1:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
ehh
rollins and victorino were on base with nobody out in the 5th and 3-4-5 shit the bed. and right before Utley’s HR, they both hit rockets that unfortunately were right at fielders. shit happens man. baseball is a game of high variance. we’ll get ’em in game 5 and go from there
by spacab on Nov 2, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeahh true forgot out that……we need to take advantage whenever we get rollins and victorino on base… we dont’ need homerunss, lets just get the ball in the gaps and let those two fly i swear they can probably run around the bases under 10 seconds flat….if we win tommorrow we need to take every at bat seriously….one more loss and and that its boys….168 games for nothing…lets get this….do it for harry kalas and pedro man…
by eaglesfan20 on Nov 2, 2009 1:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A Cub fan hopes:
The Phillies don’t commiserate about what has happened up to now, get their s*** together, beat the Yankees and take the Series back to New York to win it in seven.
Go Phillies!
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Nov 2, 2009 5:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This one is over
sign, sealed, delivered.
You’re absolutely out of your mind if you think the Phillies can win 3 in a row against the Yanks in this series.
by Off The Hook on Nov 2, 2009 7:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just would like to point out that the pitching matchup are in the Phillies favor. Lee vs. AJ, even if AJ pitches like he did in game 2. Pedro vs. Petitte, I like for the phillies too. I can see a strong possibility of this series going to game 7, and then it is anyone’s series…I could even see Lee pitching a couple of innings in relief.
by Clyde Simmons on Nov 2, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
That’s what makes last night’s loss so tough. Charlie rolled the dice with Blanton to give himself favorable matchups in 2 out of the last 3 games. We still have a chance considering the pitching matchups, but I’ll feel even more uncomfortable in a close game in the late innings now.
by Screen Name 20 on Nov 2, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what I hate more...
Speciously sincere “condolence posts” or payroll/money arguments.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Nov 2, 2009 8:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A poll, perhaps?
(Not sure which way I’d vote… they’re both sickening.)
by PhillyFriar on Nov 2, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about the fans from other teams rabidly posting here during games to ‘beat the yankees’?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really get the mentality that impels a Yankees fan to come here and post after that game last night. At all. What possible good can come of this?
That said, I think we are where we are in this Series right now on merit. The bottom of the fifth vs the top of the ninth last night says it all: the Yankees have taken advantage of their opportunities for big innings, the Phils haven’t.
Also, we’re now ourselves too rich a team to make the payroll whine.
by dajafi on Nov 2, 2009 10:34 AM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
whine
The Rockies could have done the same thing to us. We’re more than rich enough to “compete” even if resources do give the Yankees an advantage in that regard. Do we want them to not exploit that advantage?
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Nov 2, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that complaining about payrolls now is not worthwhile.
After all of today’s emotions subside, however, I will continue to believe that baseball has some genuine structural problems. I don’t think there’s a contradiction there between saying that we shouldn’t blame the Yankees for spending, and saying that the sport would be better off with some more financial coordination.
by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with tp (shudder), because the yankees do everything within the rules of baseball (so do the red sox folks, just saying) – the structure is broken, no sport has as much ‘team based’ revenue from tv contracts as baseball….I’m pretty sure the lakers don’t get that much more cash from FSW than the Bobcats get from whomever does their home games.
This has been a problem for a while, and no one in baseball, either players or owners, seems to care enough to really fix it and as long as attendance goes up – why should they?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As I said above, I don’t think payroll is determinative. And yeah, if I were a Yankees fan I’d absolutely want my team to spend what it could to put the best team on the field. I want that for the Phillies, after all. And I think you can make a good argument that the industry is very adaptable, so the advantage isn’t as important as it might seem. You can probably trace what look to be weaker free-agent markets to the idea that teams now lock up at least a few free agent years of their stars while they’re still young, pushing back the average age of free agents. And yeah, we had a higher payroll than the Rockies, so it’s not as if we’re the Marlins.
However, I don’t think I’m just being petty, either. I think the extent of the disparity between the Yankees resources and everyone else undermines the idea that roughly, this should be about adeptness in putting together a team rather than just an exercise in spending power.
So yeah, this is whining a little bit—but I don’t think that makes the argument invalid, either.
by phila on Nov 2, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well the yankees didn’t create the system, they just take advantage of it better than any other franchise (aside from the red sox who i believe are a better run franchise top to bottom than the yankees).
But at the same time you have owners pocketing ‘revenue’ sharing as opposed to spending it – so why should the yankees give ‘more money’ to teams who aren’t spending what they get already.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But the Yankees don’t take advantage of the system because they’re particularly astute. They have brute force. Instead, you want to encourage intelligent management. And to be fair, that element is there in this year’s team: Swisher was a great addition and they found some good arms in the pen who’ve helped them a lot, guys like Aceves and Robinson.
On the other hand, it’s very hard for me to see how their resource advantage doesn’t undermine the idea of competition. I understand the “it’s their money they should be free to do what they want with it” argument. However, whatever the merits of that in the real world, sports is designed specifically to measure skill and skill in putting together the team is part of that.
by phila on Nov 2, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand, it’s very hard for me to see how their resource advantage doesn’t undermine the idea of competition. ,
Well, see, that’ where the cheapness of other teams comes into play – the minor leagues are supposedly the great equalizer but teams who won’t spend on free agency ALSO go cheap in the draft, 10 million in the draft can produce a lot more than 10 million in free agency and don’t say teams don’t have it – they do – they are too cheap to spend it.
The yankees have the highest payroll pretty much every season
And yet – they don’t win the world series every season
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So teams with less money spend less on the draft than teams with more money? You don’t say.
by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But they don’t have as much ‘less money’ as they would have you believe – they just pocket it – the revenue that teams like the yankees and red sox share with the royals (or the twins and their billionaire owner) don’t go back into their franchises you sarcastic dolt – they go into their owners pockets.
The whiner teams have money to spend – they won’t spend it
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“sarcastic dolt,” eh? Now that’s some real irony.
Do you really think you’ve impressed anyone here with your intelligence, ever? People who are intellectually confident don’t act the way you do. I don’t think you’re stupid or anything, but you don’t have anything more than a mediocre mind.
Also, if you’re going to make wild factual claims as the bases for your opinions, you should cite some figures. Financial info is available all over the web. Do some research and write a fanpost. Don’t just rely on vague memories of stuff you might have read on the Internet.
by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s also the Rays, a well run organization that spends money on their young players. They don’t fall into that pattern. It’d be difficult they’re on anything close to even-footing.
Also, I think you’re focusing on the Marlins and Padres of the world. What about the median MLB payrolls, which are about $80 million? Even there it’s difficult for me to see how that’s close to even.
You’re right, some owners are really cheap. And some teams just don’t have money, but would probably spend more if they could.
by phila on Nov 2, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Show me those teams – show me the teams that ‘would probably spend money if they could’ – the teams who are just so cash strapped they are near bankrupticy – i mean there’s the rangers – but who else really doesn’t have the money?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are cases where clearly a personnel move was made for financial reasons. And they happen to teams, not just at the bottom of MLB’s payroll list, but in the middle. Look at the Indians over the past two years. They have a middle of the pack payroll and just traded away 2 Cy Young Award winners. Look at Tampa—they’re highly constrained by finances.
by phila on Nov 2, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But that’s anecdotal evidence, we have no access to the books of those teams that indicate they can’t afford those players and more, just their statement that they can’t afford those players…and Tampa hasn’t really had to worry about it just yet have they? Who did they give away for financial reasons who went on to dominate?
Aside from the Rangers public issues with finances (and the padres and soon the dodgers problems that stem from divorce of the owner) everything else is just taking owners at their word, people who like to make money and have money
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too much Tuesday Morning Quarterbacking. Blanton actually pitched great and could have had a shut out with a little luck. Damon’s double was the only hard hit I remember him giving up. Lidge fell apart but who did you have more faith in there? Myers? Durbin?
What bothers me more is I can’t understand why they’re not running on Posada more often. Rollins and Victorino with no outs in the 5th. I thought they’d be going within a pitch or two. Obviously wouldn’t have mattered if Utley and Howard still popped out, but would have been nice to put a little more pressure on CC and have him worried to throw his slider down (you know, like Lidge was…)
by Everybody Hits on Nov 2, 2009 11:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure I enjoy Bobby Valentine agreeing with me this morning but he was on the Mikes wondering (as I did) why Damon being on 3rd takes away Lidges best pitch if it is indeed his BEST PITCH. How can your best pitch be your best pitch if you don’t have confidence to throw it in a situation like that due to not being able to really control where it goes?
Then again, Valentine also called Lidge the phillies best pitcher all year – so I’m pretty sure he was drunk
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 11:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was so excited about that Feliz HR. I am sure we all were. I really thought I was going to lose my mind because the entire house around me was asleep. Everyone was, and it turned out they had the right idea. So I am pumped up, still wanting to yell “FUCK” like I had Tourettes syndrome in the most serious of forms. I think I may have contracted it for a few moments. And then, the commercials were a blur, and I honestly forgot about what I saw next.
Brad Lidge.
That name, and that name alone, stopped my brain. What’s really remarkable was Feliz’s ability to make me forget about all of our problems. That was as exciting as it gets for a Phils fan and then you know what your chances are next.
What I find to be particularly disturbing and strange is the manner in which we treat this. We all know where Brad is at, and I think we empathize with him to some degree. He is like a mother is to us. (S)He gave berth to our World Series trophy, and we respect the hell out of h(im)er because that’s a mighty feat for an asshole to accomplish. Then all of the sudden we get older and realize that mom is just a complaining psychotic babbling asshole. But she is still our mother and we fight for her unconditionally, much the same way the love between the two functions. So we all saw this coming and no one is intensely irate with Mr. Lidge. I am having a hard time dealing with this internally myself, which is why I am here.
Three more boys. This team has provided us with this before. We need great starts from Lee and Pedro, with bullpen miracles abound. Hell, the Eagles made the playoffs last year.
by hessshaun on Nov 2, 2009 3:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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