Phillies Breakfast Links, November 2, 2009: China Syndrome, Death by Lee, Finger Pointing

by WholeCamels on Nov 2, 2009 8:23 AM EST Comment 49 comments

Bill Conlin: Ghosts of World Series past haunt Phillies

We see you in the shadows, Ken Griffey Sr. The Phils led the Big Red Machine, 6-4, in the bottom of the ninth in 1976's Game 3. Then George Foster homered, Johnny Bench homered. Everybody walked off to a famous World Series with the Red Sox when Griffey scored Dave Concepcion with a one-out, bases-loaded single.

Um, fact checking?

LEE SHOWS HE'S NO DOC
What the hell is this guy talking about?

Sam Donnellon: Manuel should have pitched Lee in Game 4
Oh man, I really hope this "Cliff Lee is soft, he should have pushed to start, I wish they had Roy Halladay!" thing gets off the ground!!!

Aaron a reminder of an innocent era
An era where amphetamines and booze were the drugs of choice...

Victorino silenced after loss
The writer kind of sounds like he hates Victorino.

McCaffery: Howard fills dreaded role of fallen star
The scapegoating has begun...

Philly needs Lee to step up again
This reminds me an awful lot of Game Five, 1993 World Series. Sure they might win this one, but then what?

Frank: If stats aren't enough to bench Hamels, his words should be
Stop it.

'It just didn't work out' for Blanton
Joe Blanton was fine, really.

Phil Sheridan: Phillies struggling to recapture 2008 form
Great headline, really.

Rich Hofmann: The moment we all feared: Lidge implosion
The moment we feared, and saw coming about a million miles away.

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The emphasis being paid to Cole’s comments regarding his opinion of this season is a crime. He made a mental gaffe by ever saying anything like that, but was specifically asked a question that had little other answer but that. Don’t criticize a guy for talking about the end of the season when you friggin ask him about the end of the season, and immediately after a tough loss, at that.

by Steve J on Nov 2, 2009 8:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I did particularly like Ozzie Guillen’s comments before the game about it, though.

Last I checked “I’d sit down with him and figure out why he said that and figure out what we should do moving forward” is not Venezuelan slang for “I’d kick the living crap out of him.”

by Steve J on Nov 2, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what Cole said, and I’ve been a detractor of his antics this season.

I’m sure it has been tough for him. He was a stud last year, guiding his team to a WS. This year, he’s average at best, and been smacked around in the post-season. I’m pretty sure he wants it to be over. That’s normal.

I’ve been pretty quiet in the game discussions lately, the stress gets to me in the WS.
One thing I’ll say, is that should the Phils bow out tonight, it’s not going to sting like it did for me in 1993. They won it last year. They’ve been 2 years in a row. The core group of players is great, and I don’t worry that they won’t make the playoffs for the forseeable future. Odds are they’ll make it to the post-season next year, and we can start the fun all over.

I feel bad for Howard that he’s had such a miserable series. He’s had lefty after lefty thrown at him and they’ve pitched him perfectly. He needs to adjust, but I’m not mad at him.

I think they can win tonight’s game, and then who knows what could happen after that. It doesn’t look good, but right now BP has them as 9% to win the WS. That’s still better than 28 other teams.

by Bilzo on Nov 2, 2009 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Especially with a fanbase (or large portion) and press that has dressed the guy down all season for having a bad year, and then… wow, Hamels says he doesn’t like struggling! What a weak whiner!

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Nov 2, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can’t find the sequence of questions anywhere online, which I think is total journalistic irresponsibility. Did anyone catch what Leslie Gudel said a few minutes prior to the game? She said he was first asked for his comments on a potential game 7 and how much he would like to pitch – to which he replied with the boxed answer of “I’d welcome the opportunity, I want to get another shot, yadda yadda”.

Then the immediate follow up was “What if there isn’t a game 7? How do you look at this season?”

by Steve J on Nov 2, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

All summer long. We post, comment and analyze. What’s wrong with Lidge? Injury, mechanics, psyche, or a combination of some or all… Looking back, we never really did find an answer. As summer waned, the question of “what’s wrong” gave way to “would Charlie really do it”— put him in when it mattered the most? Not when we’re leading in a series or up by three runs, but in the most pivotal, high pressure moment imaginable. Last night was that moment. And Charlie went with his guy. And stuck with his guy. Even after he drilled Texiera. His control now lost and hands trembling with the enormity of the moment, A-Rod walks to the plate. You didn’t have to grow-up a Phillies fan to know what would happen. The script was written all year, just waiting to be acted out. Fregosi and Mitch. Charlie and Lidge.

by Boundforbeach on Nov 2, 2009 8:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

100% correct. Perfect post

by DT1 on Nov 2, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What's so unbelievably frustrating...

…is that with Johnny Damon down 1-2 with 2 outs in the 9th, you could see the path to winning this World Series with clarity. A bottom of the 9th featuring Phil Coke vs. the top of our lineup would likely produce the run needed to knot the series at 2 games apiece, and then Cliff Lee was on the bump to give the Phils a 3-2 lead. One win in New York for the defending world champs? I’d like my odds there.

To say that Lidge’s meltdown was devastating doesn’t even begin to tell the story. Argh.

by PhillyFriar on Nov 2, 2009 9:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...Starting Cliff Lee in Game 5 Could have been a Good Move

If the Phillies had won just one of the past 3 games, then Cliff Lee is just who you want starting game 5…get back the momentum and go back to NY just having to win one game.

by JWoody on Nov 2, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

um ... the top of our lineup would LIKELY produce a run?

LIKELY? No way

by DT1 on Nov 2, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can anyone tell me what the hell that brown, pine-tar looking stain was on the bill of Blanton's cap?

You know, the one that no one talked about on the FOX broadcast?

Yeah, the one he kept touching with his right hand throughout the six innings he was out there?

The one that looks identical to the stain he had in LAST year’s Game 4 where Joe Maddon brought it up?

Joe Buck really is a little prick for hushing up on it. Funny.

"It's only fun if you win, Skip." -- Me.

by Paul O'Neill on Nov 2, 2009 9:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Go post your bullshit elsewhere. Better yet, just go away

by Boundforbeach on Nov 2, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know what, that's a good idea!

Maybe we can talk about Andy Pettitte’s balk move while we’re at it. Or ARod’s habit of peeking at the catcher’s position during at bats (a real no no within game etiquette).

I mean, really… it’s not good enough for you to win a World Series — you need to win against a team that’s cheating, with umpires and broadcasters that are covering it up, to feel good about yourself? Please just go away.

by PhillyFriar on Nov 2, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/88/88ebush.phtml

by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, but first tell me what that shit was on Cartman's hat.

Because Buck and McCarver almost tapped the umps on the shoulder the other night and told them Andy should be called for a balk.

"It's only fun if you win, Skip." -- Me.

by Paul O'Neill on Nov 2, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It was dirt. They checked it last year and found nothing. It’s been on his hat for every single game throughout the regular season and the postseason. That’s why it isn’t worth reporting anymore.

by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He posted the same stupid comment on Pinstripe Alley last night and they basically told him to shut-up and that it was dirt, the same as Joba had on his hat. He’s just being a miserable troll.

by Boundforbeach on Nov 2, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think much of his personality either, but I doubt it’s worth it to point that out because I’m sure he acts like that on purpose. If he does the same in real life, someday he may come to realize that nobody he knows likes him very much including his “friends” and family. Maybe that doesn’t make a difference to him.

But, personality aside, I’m going to assume he’s an intelligent person who’s capable of understanding simple logic and facts and isn’t totally dishonest, unless and until he proves otherwise.

by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

classic Yankee asshole fan

by DT1 on Nov 2, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it was frosting

eom

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Nov 2, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously, people who trash talk about sports are losers at life. I’ve never met anyone in real life who acts like this whom I’ve respected as a human being (no matter what teams they root for, including Philly teams). Why would you puff your chest out about something when all you did was watch it on TV? It’s absurd.

by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess it took a real winner to point out that people who talk trash about sports are losers. Thanks, Phillies fan.

"It's only fun if you win, Skip." -- Me.

by Paul O'Neill on Nov 2, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

^ you

by Boundforbeach on Nov 2, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Awesome picture :)

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

decisions

I don’t know whether to ban you, or shake your hand for proving our points so succinctly and perfectly.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Nov 2, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can be doing both?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s up to people who know me in real life to judge whether I’m a “real winner,” but really, but no, it doesn’t “take” one to point out that people who talk trash about sports are losers. It’s obvious to just about all regular, decent people. Apparently not to you.

by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would expand your treatise (thesis? hypothesis?) to all forms of trash talking, about anything, not just sports and it’s equating with loserdom

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps. Will have to think about that.

by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

For instance, trash talking when you beat someone on line in some sort of video game be it sports related or FPS related….

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And while we’re at it, let’s talk about Posada’s need to walk out to the mound 10 times an inning.

by The R on Nov 2, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

New Hamels controversy

No, not over his performance, but over his anti-gay video game ad.

by David S. Cohen on Nov 2, 2009 9:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

What a strange world we live in. I clicked on your link and the second story (with pictures) is about how some video game promoter hired a bunch of strippers to see if his video game players were impervious to distraction while playing.

by Boundforbeach on Nov 2, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That was really him?!? I thought they’d just found someone with a similar voice!

by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This reminds me an awful lot of Game Five, 1993 World Series. Sure they might win this one, but then what?

I know the odds are long, but let’s just hope they win tonight, and worry about tomorrow tomorrow (or actually, the day after tomorrow).

by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 10:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Combination of 1983 and 1993

So far this year, the sequence of games has followed that of 1983: win on the road in game one, lose game two, come home and lose game three after taking an early lead and lose a frustrating game four. The Orioles scored early in game five and coasted to the title. But this year actually reminds me equally of 1993. That year the Phillies lost game one and won game two in Toronto, came home where they had been dominant all year, and promptly dropped games three and four (the infamous 15-14 game). But ace Curt Schilling pitched a brilliant game five – much like we’re hoping Cliff Lee will do. And the Phillies staged a spirited comeback in game six, down 5-1 after six innings, and took a 6-5 lead into the 9th. Not that any of this matters directly on this year’s World Series, but I don’t think anyone should assume the Yankees have this locked up.

by phillyinportland on Nov 2, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True. Interestingly about 1993, a lot of people today seem to think Schilling got both of the Phillies’ wins that World Series – that he was dominant while all the other Phillies starters sucked. It’s a case study in how people’s perceptions can get distorted over time – in this case, by the memory of Schilling’s dominant Game Five and the reputation he developed in the years that followed. Actually, Schilling lost his first start (in Game One) and pitched poorly in that game. Terry Mulholland was the starter and got the W in Game Two.

I have good hope for tonight, but it isn’t a sure thing by any means. The team can’t let up just because Lee is on the mound.

by taco pal on Nov 2, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Schilling’s first World Series game wasn’t good, but he was pretty much as good as you get in the rest of his World Series starts. If Lee is capable of Schilling-like dominance, as he appears to be, then he has already gotten over any game one jitters and should do okay. I just hope the Phillies batters are ready for Burnett and his first-pitch strikes if he tries to duplicate his previous performance.

by phillyinportland on Nov 2, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

1983 world series schimdt 1 for 20- Howard?

about the same

by DT1 on Nov 2, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hey remember...

when the yankees started their ace on 3 days rest for the first time in his career in the post-season?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=271008110

by char6587 on Nov 2, 2009 10:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I was at the game last night. It just seemed to me that the Phillies where always positioned wrong. Why where they playing Damon so deep?

say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan

by say hey nation on Nov 2, 2009 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I’m there tonight. Gotta feel a win. Then back to NY with Pedro in game six or Happ?

Just gotta win tonight thats all for now. Hopefully Charlie was taught a lesson again that there shouldn’t be just one “closer.” If it doesn’t work out things could be worse, remember we’re not Mets fans, or Indians fans, or Dodgers fans…etc. etc. etc.

by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Nov 2, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure how comfortable I feel with pedro on ‘normal’ rest – his last two really good playoff starts have both been with rest of closer to two weeks than the standard 5 days.

Maybe he’s ‘early’ pedro who went 6/3/5/2 in outing on normal rest or the guy who had that nice string of 3 starts on normal rest in early september.

I don’t feel pedro is any sort of lock in game six.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Nov 2, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I swear, if we lose this series, and the media starts to take it out on guys who were integral parts of last year’s championship, I will spend all off-season ripping apart the GARBAGE we call Philly sports writers and talk show hosts.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Nov 2, 2009 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs