trade
by jack is better than asante on Nov 7, 2009 12:03 PM EST
74 comments
the most important thing the phils can do this offseason is to trade an outfielder .. Werth is coming into his own as a star so i think its safe to say we keep him. that leaves victorino and ibanez. if someone would give us value for ibanez i would do it in a second, however given his age and declining numbers there wont be many takers. that leaves us to victorino. shane put up decent but not great numbers this season, and is very good defensively. however, michael taylor is ready now. he will easily give us similar output to shane with more upside. he has better power and just as good speed, the guy really is a 5 tool player. so the phils can ill afford to pull a howard and leave him sit in minor leagues. trading shane for a pitcher would improve our pitching and not lose much in our lineup. the giants were rumored to be sending cain this way for victorino and a prospect. that ship has long sailed and i dont expect our average outfielder to fetch a star like cain, but there our guys such as javier vasquez and erik bedard who would bolster our rotation. which outfielder would u trade and for who?
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Did BGN ban you or something?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Nov 7, 2009 12:31 PM EST reply actions 16 recs
I rec’d you. One more and you tie pompomflipflop, as if you care
by Boundforbeach on Nov 11, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I only care if I get a pony.
Do I get a pony?
by jemagee on Nov 11, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
by The Dark on Nov 11, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s amazing. In one post you have managed to crystalize the overwhelming distaste for this dunce.
by FuquaManuel on Nov 11, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Erik Bedard?
Hes a free agent, right?
No way the Giants give us Cain, especially since they have another Phillie castoff already maning center.
by philiafan14364 on Nov 7, 2009 2:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about you guys...
…but I wish I could trade jack is better than asante to another website.
by ajay on Nov 7, 2009 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wish we could designate him for assignment.
by FuquaManuel on Nov 7, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not a bad idea thuogh because i think dominic brown and mike taylor are ready to be called up
eff you we winning anyway
by eagleswin on Nov 7, 2009 5:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: You don’t trade a key piece on a great team just so you can try out a prospect. What happens if Michael Taylor plays more like Reggie Taylor? He wasn’t exactly spectacular in his 30 games in AAA. Do you really want Ben Francisco starting full-time?
How about you let Taylor get a full season of AAA pitching and call him up in September? Is there really any downside to doing that?
by yosoysean on Nov 7, 2009 11:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yea
u waste a guy another year when hes ready to play now .. victorino wasnt that productive .. if taylor isnt ready im sure a mayberry francisco platoon can give u just as good production .. u should trade how now well he has value .. if ibanez had value i would trade him but hes too old and declining
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 8, 2009 12:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yosoysean
if u are going to go by that logic u would never call ur prospects up .. so u wouldnt trade blanton when drabek was ready? our problem was we kept thome too long when howard was ready .. a lot of teams are opening spots for their young stars . .its pretty common
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 8, 2009 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
for once, i think i agree with u
eff you we winning anyway
by eagleswin on Nov 8, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ryan Howard worked out OK despite being “held back”.
by Walcott on Nov 9, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea
but we wasted a year or year and 1/2 of him in his prime
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 9, 2009 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or
We got that year and a half under team control when he was a finished-product superstar at age 30-31 rather than a work in progress at 22-23.
Besides, the “Howard was held” argument doesn’t really hold up if you look at his progression through the minors. In 2004, at age 24, he had his first really great year as a prospect—destroyed AA and did well in a short callup to AAA and then a September cameo with the Phils. The next spring, at age 25, he was back at triple-A, but the injury to Thome had him up for good in time to win the Rookie of the Year. At most, you could argue that he should have started 2005 in the majors. But Thome was coming off a great year himself in ’04, his buddy Manuel had just been named the manager, and he was the most marketable guy on the team.
The truth is that we were amazingly lucky in how it all worked out.
by dajafi on Nov 9, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. I’m saying don’t trade them when you don’t need to. Taylor isn’t ready yet, as I alluded to in my post.
How many teams are trading away All-Stars to open spots for young players? I can understand letting players go in free agency, but how common is it to just trade away established veterans on a title contending team?
by yosoysean on Nov 9, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
you are an idiot than .. one hes not an all star caliber player .. hes a nice little outfielder .. thats it .. and his production can be matched by taylor .. if hes not ready a platoon of francisco and mayberry will do fine .. and by trading him we upgrade another part of the team .. the pitching .. so yea its a great idea .. taylor is ready rite now .. and lots of teams pave way for young players .. longoria .. ellsbury .. etc.. u dont hold down a top tier prospect whos ready to keep a player who is aging demanding more money and not a huge upgrade from the prospect
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 10, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You do realize that platoons are not comprised of two right handed (or left handed) hitters, right? It’s one of each. Francisco and Mayberry are both righties, thus, no platoon.
Also, responding to yosoyseaen’s assertion that Taylor is not ready by simply saying that he is ready is not going to win you an argument.
Finally, you really shouldn’t call other people idiots.
by FuquaManuel on Nov 10, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"you are an idiot than"
eom
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Nov 10, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yay
no more feliz .. i want beltre bad! but there are a few guys who would be huge upgrades
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 8, 2009 7:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
your name doesnt make sense anymore, we cut Jack. Change it to Sheldon is better than Asante.
by Clyde Simmons on Nov 9, 2009 8:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
JIBTA still has hope for Jack.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
by Eaglesgrl5 on Nov 9, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL Victorino for CAIN!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 10:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
lol
i laugh at it too .. the giants were discusing it before .. now i dont think they would but they cant afford to keep both cain lincecum when they are paying zito and have bumgarder on the way
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 10, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When were the Giants discussing Victorino for Cain?
I really want to know about the world you live in, cause I know it’s not the one the rest of us live in.
Rumors exist that the there may have been fielder for cain talks that the giants turned down…so I doubt there were a lot of Victorino / Cain talks.
And the Giants can afford to keep cain and lincecum for a few more years and zitos contract does not last forever
by jemagee on Nov 11, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a world in which the shift key doesn’t exist, punctuation is frowned upon and analysis consists of making it up as you type it.
by Cormican on Nov 11, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea
it wasnt strait up .. victorino was the centerpiece with some prospects
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 11, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the Paula Abdul spelling of straight up right?
Do you have reliable (any) sources for these fascinating made up trade talks?
by jemagee on Nov 11, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1) Victorino isn’t good
2) We have Rowand in CF (that sucks)
3) When Tim is a FA Zito will be off the books
4) Cain has been one of the best young pitchers for awhile now and we would get more for him than Shane+prospects
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 12, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t call .292/.358/.445 with speed to burn and above average defense “not good”. I’m pretty sure most teams would gladly take that. I agree with you on the rest of the points though. jibta is just an idiot.
by yosoysean on Nov 12, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no
i doubt u will get more than victorino drabek and knapp .. that was to proposed deal on the table
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 13, 2009 4:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what in the sam hell are you talking about?
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Nov 13, 2009 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a string theorist. He’s apparently living in a parallel alternate universe where we were offered a deal of Matt Cain for Shane, Drabek and Knapp. Or he’s just a jackass.
by Boundforbeach on Nov 13, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness, it’s an indisputable fact that there are an infinite number of parallel universes.
by PhillyFriar on Nov 13, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
u guys are idiots .. u dont think drabek victorino and knapp was fair? the giants needed a bat bad .. victorino was arbatration elligable .. they got back two pitching prospects .. already have bumgarder coming and cain is due for a big pay day ..but that was over 6 months ago . this aint happening now
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 13, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair for the Phillies = yes. Fair for the Giants = No. Trading a front of the rotation, 24 year old player for a 28 year old centerfielder with (at the time) one decent season under his belt along with 2 (at the time given injury history/age) long shot pitching prospects is the type of thing that gets GMs fired.
by Cormican on Nov 13, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Giants needed a power bat. Victorino is definitely not that.
Besides, I think your timeline is off. Any article I read mentioned Carrasco, Donald, and Greg Golson. I did not see one mention of Victorino other than by delusional fan posts. I see absolutely no signs of rumors of Cain even being mentioned with the Phillies this past season.
Cain has a club option for $6.5 mil in 2011. That is low for a pitcher of his talent. He isn’t getting his “payday” for another two seasons.
by yosoysean on Nov 13, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, everything I read on mlbtraderumors about Cain is the Giants vehemently denying that they were even open to trading Cain. Point me to any source that linked the Phillies to Cain this season and MAYBE your point has a sliver of credibility.
by yosoysean on Nov 13, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there some new convention in blog comment posting whereby you must now call everyone idiots before going on to make an idiotic post yourself? Must have missed that.
by FuquaManuel on Nov 13, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By calling everyone idiots you automatically establish yourself as more knowledgeable than the rest…the more insults you spew towards a poster, the more weight and intelligence and insight your posts actually have.
It’s called the BelShore school of posting.
by jemagee on Nov 14, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If being an idiot is qualification for bannination then i’m screwed
by jemagee on Nov 13, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You have long way to go before you get to JIBTA dumb.
by Cormican on Nov 13, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WEll, I want to come out every day, take it one post at a time, give 110%, I want to play good, I thought I played good
by jemagee on Nov 13, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t actually a bull durham reference, but thanks :)
by jemagee on Nov 17, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, turns out it’s a mixed reference, but bull durham wasn’t the inspiration
by jemagee on Nov 17, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it was fairly close, as I allowed for blogging
and what, pray tell, was the inspiration??
by SmilingJPhilsPhan on Nov 17, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A bad remake of a bad filim with brendan frasier and liz hurley called bedazzled i think? He wants a new life and he becomes this REALLY stupid pro basketball player
by jemagee on Nov 17, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect that that was itself an homage to Bull Durham.
by taco pal on Nov 17, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bad movie, although I did like the part where he turned into a Columbian drug lord.
by Boundforbeach on Nov 18, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bad movies can be entertaining and I think Fraser is underrated
by jemagee on Nov 18, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would certainly hope so. How bad would he be if he were overrated?
by taco pal on Nov 18, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dude
fuck u .. i know more than u do cormican .. cain is not a ace .. he is a number 2 at best .. he has great stuff but isnt dominant like he should be .. basically hes aj burnett .. his last three years he is 7-16, 8-14 and 14-8 .. not exactly ace material .. hes underperformed .. and his great stuff makes u over look that .. lincecum is clearly their ace .. and bumgarder has a higher ceiling than cain .. so can they really afford to pay him 10 million anually based on potential .. victorino would be a great upgrade .. they ended up getting freddie sanchez and ryan garko .. both are not as good hitters as victorino .. plus victorino is great defensivley and young.. so yea him and a top tier pitching prospect along with a high ceiling arm was fair .. i dont get this notion that cain is untouchable .. he is not going to be a giant in 2 years anyway .. felix hernandez is young and a better pitcher and hes on the market
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 15, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The first problem is that this trade proposal you are talking about never existed in the first place and you are yet to show any evidence that it did.
Record has nothing to do with the quality of a pitcher. Was Jamie Moyer better than Cole Hamels in 2008? If you’re answer is “yes” then don’t even bother responding because I don’t want to read it.
Lincecum and Baumgartner’s status have no effect on Cain. Teams use 5 starting pitchers. Having two others doesn’t make a 3rd expendable. Cain is 24 years old and has a bargain of a contract. He’s not even in his prime yet.
I don’t get your logic. Andy LaRoche would be an upgrade over Pedro Feliz. Should the Phillies trade JA Happ for him? Needs at a position don’t create equal value in a trade. Sanchez and Garko weren’t traded for proven MLB players (though the Sanchez trade was pretty dumb). In fact, it should go to show you that the Giants are trading away prospects to get more talent now. Trading Cain for Victorino would make their current team worse.
I also think you’re overrating Victorino. His career OPS+ is actually worse than Garko and Sanchez. He’ll be 29 next season. He’s not going to get any better than he currently is.
Cain is still under contract for 2 years. Who is to say that the Giants won’t re-sign him? San Francisco isn’t a small market. They’ve opened their checkbooks for Zito and Rowand. Who is to say they won’t do the same for Cain? There’s no reason to think they can’t pay both Lincecum and Cain. I’m sure they believe that having two great SPs will make them dangerous if they can get over the playoff hump.
Mariners trading Felix would be a huge mistake. Seattle is always up there in salary and are one of the teams that can afford to keep him. Their mistake doesn’t make trading Cain any less of a mistake for the Giants though. Felix’s availability is irrelevant.
by yosoysean on Nov 15, 2009 4:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
wheres evidence that cain is that good .. cuz to me he looks like a guy with great stuff who has underachieved while lincecum has been nasty
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 15, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where’s the evidence that indicates that you have a clue about what you’re talking about – regardless of the topic. All available evidence indicates that you make things up in your fevered imaginations and then try to make them seem like they’re real facts.
PS to the folks in charge – there is a way to lock postings right?
by jemagee on Nov 15, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
solution
don’t have to worry about JIBTA anymore
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Nov 15, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you!
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
by kmblue on Nov 15, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Aww, I kind of enjoyed reading his work.
by taco pal on Nov 16, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Head on over to Bleeding Green Nation
Or did he get banned there too?
by phatj on Nov 16, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With great wailing and gnashing of teeth?
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
by The Dark on Nov 16, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m almost sad about that, I’ll miss his Salvador Dali like talent for twisting reality into something unrecognizable. Though his evident disdain for punctuation and the shift key do get on my nerves.
by Cormican on Nov 20, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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