Salisbury: Roy Halladay trade talks heating up
Phillies talking to Roy Halladay's representatives about a contract extension; might be in Philadelphia for physical sometime this week.
Zeets!
[3PM UPDATE: He's in Philly now.]
[4 PM UPDATE: Now SI.com says the Phillies, Blue Jays, and Mariners are "in agreement" on a deal that would send Lee to Seattle and Halladay to Philly. We'll have to see if anyone confirms, and update when details come out.]
[4:05 UPDATE: Now SI (via Heyman tweet) isn't sure if Lee is involved. Please be right!]
7 months ago
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Seems like a bit much if Lee is out too...
Interesting… would it really be worth shipping off 4 prospects (if Lee is really on his way out too) + whatever else is included in this trade just for Halladay?
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 14, 2009 2:49 PM EST reply actions
also from the article...
It is unclear which players the Phillies would send to the Blue Jays if the deal happens, but there were indications Monday that pitcher Cliff Lee could be traded. Trading Lee would help the Phillies get the prospects needed to complete the deal with Toronto. It would also free up $9 million in salary that would help the Phillies take on Halladay’s $15.75 million salary for 2010.
At the risk of stating the obvious, it seems like Ruben Amaro Jr. and his crew determined that they’re much more likely to sign Halladay long-term at a mutually agreeable price than Lee, who seems pretty hellbent on testing the market.
why?
He’s, um, pretty good.
I’d rather have both, of course, but if they can only have one long-term on a deal that doesn’t cripple the franchise, I’m fine with this.
Assuming pitcher A and pitcher B are on the same talent level, age and accomplishments
Pitcher A is talking long term contract
Pitcher B has publicly said he wants to test the market
Seems like an easy decision to me
I know it’s not that simple, it’s just how i see things
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 14, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I realize that. But we are giving up Lee and prospects to get Halladay (34) for the long term. Which means we are giving up Lee+prospects to make a lateral move (there was very little difference between them WAR-wise). Though I admit, I don’t know how to value a long-term extension.
Depends on the details. We might not have to add that much in terms of our own prospects if we’re getting prospects from a third team for Lee. I’m ready to get pissed, but I’m not pissed yet.
As a value proposition over a longer time frame than one year, you’d rather deal one year of Lee and, say, Gose for 4-5 years of Halladay than deal, say, five years of Happ and the full controlled period of Brown or Taylor and a third prospect for one year of Halladay while keeping Lee.
But you’re right: it depends on the details. And there’s a chance that some team—hopefully an AL team, but still—is going to get one year of Cliff Lee plus two picks at a wildly discounted rate, which wouldn’t sit real well.
Yup, the devil is definitely in the details here.
FM’s reservations are well placed, and I’ll reserve judgment on the whole thing until we figure out exactly what’s going on: players involved, length and money on the contract extension, etc.
But a quick take: if Lee is involved, I don’t think any of Drabek/Brown/Taylor should be part of the package, or at most, only Taylor and a pu pu platter of lesser prospects. I still think there has to be a way to get it done by spinning off Blanton for 1 or 2 prospects, and building a package around Taylor and Gose.
by PhillyFriar on Dec 14, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I’d think the Phillies could figure out how to pay both for one year, knowing they won’t have Lee long-term. They’ve got enough prospects. And Amaro has to be salivating at the thought of Halladay, Lee, and Hamels at the front of the rotation.
by David S. Cohen on Dec 14, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I take that back: if Lee is involved, none of the Big Three should go anywhere, and to be honest, we shouldn’t have to give up any of our own prospects. I said the same thing below as well before I realized that Clyde Simmons said this too.
Rec'd for agreement on the second paragraph
Before I lose it in the teeming comment sea below.
I personally think that we should be able to not give up one prospect, or even net prospects if we trade Lee. He pitched as good as Halladay, is a year younger, is owed less money, and doesn’t have a no trade clause.
I am assuming Lee would have to goto a west coast team that is blocked from getting Halladay because of his no trade clause, in which case I would consider this a lose for the Phillies if we give up ANYTHING.
We have all the bargaining power, Halladay wants to come here, and the Jays want to trade him.
by Clyde Simmons on Dec 14, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
I am assuming Lee would have to goto a west coast team
The Angels? Could we possibly work a trade where we end up with Brandon Wood and get to kep Drabek and Brown? God, I would love that, a net win.
Dream scenario...
but good luck trying to keep Wood, Drabek, Brown, AND get Halladay.
Not if the Angels send 2 or 3 prospects and you pair all those not named Brandon Wood with Taylor for Halladay.
True...
but then the Angels would have to send either 4 prospects (wood + 3) and have one of them be a top-ranked pitcher so the Phils don’t give up Drabek. I’m not sure if the Angels will think that Lee is worth both a front-line pitcher AND wood in the same deal.
Here’s some speculation from Rosenthal as to possible destinations.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10523430/Sources:-Jays,-Phils-talk-Halladay-Lee-blockbuster
by Boundforbeach on Dec 14, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
TP… I’m with you. I’m keeping my fury in check until we get specifics. But I’m not exactly doing cartwheels over the prospect of not enjoying Cliff Lee for next year. This smells like a zero sum gain.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 14, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
right, there is nothing to gain unless you sign Halladay to a discounted long term deal.
by Clyde Simmons on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Not a lateral move
Because of the extra years for Halladay.
by David S. Cohen on Dec 14, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Halladay in Philly...
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/Halladay_and_agent_in_Philadelphia.html
To be clear, this isn’t a Cohen-esque head fake: they’re in town.
It seems unusual that a trade would require a physical in order to announce an imminent trade. There must be a contract extension here.
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 14, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
i hope we can sign halladay....but first we gotta get the trade
everything we have in philly is for him
he wants to play for a championship team, which is us
and also his home is like a few blocks away from the phillies spring training in florida,
and we are also in the NL, much easier than the AL
eff you we winning anyway
But man, if Lee goes, he would go down as having the bizarrest tenure of any Phillie in the history of the franchise. To be such an important member of the team and to become so popular and then “poof” – he’s gone. It would be different from the Sabathia-with-the-Brewers rent-a-player type situation that many other teams have gone through, since in those cases you expect the guy to be gone shortly.
I agree that it’s a strange rent-a-player situation. Considering he was thought to stick around another year and people invested into that idea. Now the Halladay shirts will be flying off the shelves and those fans who fell in love with Lee… I’m sorry. It’s still a cool shirt.
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 14, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
I would hate to see Cliff Lee go. But… the move would make sense for the Phightin’s.
Interesting times forthcoming it seems.
Cliff Lee we hardly knew thee.
Chase Utley is so good that on one pitch he stole second, third and the shortstop's hat.
As much as I don’t want to see Lee go, I actually think this makes complete sense to me.
-you get a guy willing to take a discount to get out of Toronto.
-hopefully you don’t give up any prospects, or even net prospects (we stole Lee)
-you make the jays pay Halladays salary this year, so you are freeing up 9 mil of cash this year.
maybe Lee will start to lower his demands if he will get traded away too…I mean he got traded to a team and got to pitch in the world series, that has to be somewhat sentimental.
I think everyone is sentimental to some point
by Clyde Simmons on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Just read the Fox Sports report...
…and I have to say, this part bothers me:
The Phillies would acquire prospects for Lee to help satisfy the Blue Jays’ demands for Halladay, and also send prospects of their own to the Jays.
I fail to see how Cliff Lee, for one year at $8.5 million, doesn’t net you everything you need to deal for a guy (Halladay) with a no-trade clause who’s making $15.75 million next year. I mean, the Blue Jays have essentially no leverage here. I can see the logic in swapping Lee for Halladay, but I can’t see the logic in swapping Lee plus any of your own prospects for Halladay.
Rosenthal also suggests that Jays might actually pay us to take on some of Doc’s salary for next year, but how does that square with an extension?
by Boundforbeach on Dec 14, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Lee not in the deal -- thoughts?
Let us suppose:
1. Halladay is obtained by trade, and
2. Lee is not in the deal for Halladay
How can that happen?
If I’m Toronto, I have to eat Vernon Wells for 5 more years (I think) even if I trade him. Therefore, I want cost-controlled players, not players finishing out arb or facing FA. Toronto is unlikely to sign FA players in the near future as a result of salary issues, IMHO. Wells and Halladay are killing them and they are not close right now.
Toronto could sit on Halladay, pay his $15M in 2010 and hatch two first rounders for it (a comp and sandwich pick, IIRC). Toronto should therefore ask for more than 2 prospects, since that’s what they get anyway, though a “known” prospect should be worth more than a pick (better history, more information, etc.). If they are to bite on a trade, they will want salary relief and prospects, or at least I would, if I were GM in Toronto. I’m not sure I want Lee unless I want to flip him, too. He’s the same problem as Halladay.
For that reason, I think Lee is not part of this deal, assuming a deal occurs.
If a Halladay deal happens, it won’t include Lee. We’re looking at a Phillies rotation with Lee and Halladay for 2010. The big question is who is there in 2011 and in the future. Do the Phillies sign one of Lee/Halladay? Both? Neither and get 4 picks?
The resigning(s) can be dealt with later. Right now, the question is: who (among cost-controlled players) do the Phillies cough up for Halladay?
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 3:56 PM EST reply actions
where there’s smoke, there is usually fire. Most speculation to date seems to indicate Lee is on his way out to make this deal work. But we’ll see.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 14, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Not to Toronto, though
And that seems to be the tenor of the rumors so far. I’m interested in who the Phillies will include in this deal from their own inventory. Adding much, if anything, seems foolish.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like Lee will go in this deal. It does make sense if the Phillies at least want to make sure they can get what they want with either pitcher, that is an extension. Halladay your going to get it, Lee your not. Toronto will love it because then it allows them to now trade Lee midseason as a rental.
I would love to see both pitch for us but overall this is a great trade if its the two straight up and maybe one small prospect (if needed, shouldnt be). Also if Blue Jays are willing to pay for some of his salary it might make the Phillies put out some cash for the bullpen.
MLB Shake-Up
I may hate this trade, but man, this could turn the entire MLB world upside down from the ramifications of it all. It’s kind of wild how the Phils now seem to be pivotal figures at the trade deadline and in the offseason. It almost feels like the Flyers.
Any ideas on the third team that is pretty important
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST reply actions
Either the Angels or Mariners
It looks like (leaning towards it being Seattle)
if you want to guess, read Rosenthal’s speculation (link above)
by Boundforbeach on Dec 14, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
WIP Reported...
WIP says Lee to Mariners, Mariners sends prospects to Jays, and Jays send Halladay to us.
Maybe I’m asking for a level of detail that WIP can’t give, but does that mean we’re not sending any prospects?
and if it is anyone who bought a Lee shirt should be able to return it for a Halladay
by Clyde Simmons on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/roy-halladay-rumors-monday-1.html
um, apparently the deal has been agreed to between the Mariners, Phillies and Jays
Heynman tweet - deal is done
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/6673019520
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST reply actions
Heynman retracting
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/6673202446
Tweet, tweet, tweet.
No chance work gets done now.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the tweet feed:
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe they’ll take Moyer. They have junior back in Seattle, why not Jamie?
/sarcasm’d
by Michael Levin on Dec 14, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
they can have Ibanez back while they’re at it…
by Boundforbeach on Dec 14, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Now this is some realistic trade talk. All that other stuff was bor-ring.
by Michael Levin on Dec 14, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
And dobbs if it means us keeping Clifton Phifer.
by Michael Levin on Dec 14, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
this is more fun than the NLDS
“Heynman fists it to Rollins…..”
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:09 PM EST reply actions
Hm so twitter is a little useful, damn
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST reply actions
well in this wacky twitter world, it should take about 10 minutes…
by Boundforbeach on Dec 14, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
So the reasoning is that Halladay wants to sign long-term and Lee wants to test the market right? Thats the answer I’m telling my friends for now…
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:17 PM EST reply actions
Mariners 1-2
King Felix and Cliff Lee… Mariners have officially retooled themselves.
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 14, 2009 4:18 PM EST reply actions
True but in all honesty they’re not making it to WS so who cares we wont deal with them
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'm nervous right now.
The Mariners system has some nice prospects, but not anyone who could headline a deal of this sort. Which makes me nervous that the Phillies have had to kick in a prospect or two to get this done — and if that prospect is anything but a throw in, then this is a big time mistake.
I’m worried it’s Taylor. Real worried.
by Michael Levin on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
maybe we get more then just Halladay?
Because Mariners need to give Lee worthy guys and we arent stupid like the Indians….
If it is, then Amaro’s a fucking moron.
I wonder if Michael Saunders, Brandon Morrow, and Carlos Triunfel would be enough for the Blue Jays. Maybe Phillippe Aumont too. There’s just no way we should have to kick in a good prospect to make what is, for 2010 at least, a lateral move.
Guess its time to start the Good Luck Clifton we loved you for a hot few months
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions
The guys at Lookoutlanding
are deliriously happy. Wish I was…
Is anyone else remembering that
Halladay looked sort of ordinary for lots of this year?
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST reply actions
ERA+
Halladay 2009: 155
Lee 2009: 131
by David S. Cohen on Dec 14, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
baseball-ref comp for last 3 yrs?
Tim Hudson.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Without the injuries
Hudson was a superior pitcher.
WAR over the last 3 years
CC Sabathia: 20.6
Tim Lincecum: 23.6
Felix Hernandez: 14.9
Zack Greinke: 16.8
Josh Beckett: 16.8
Dan Haren: 17.5
Roy Halladay: 20.3
I wouldn’t worry about Halladay too much. I’d worry more about finding out what the Phils have given up here.
Okay, he's pitched in the same division as the Yankees and the Red Sox for how many years?
Now he’d come pitch in a division with the Nationals and Mets. Think he might do better here, regardless of anything else?
And he is a flyball pitcher
Why not get Lowe or Chien-Ming Wang for a lot less?
Halladay is top-shelf, but he can only (at best) pitch 15% of the innings. Should he get 14% of total payroll?
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Wang is a disaster waiting to happen.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
He doesn't get 20 mil+, though
You can take a flyer. GB pitcher with the Phillies D? Worth trying.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
He’s a flyball pitcher? His groundball/flyball ratios over the last 3 years: 1.79:1, 1.75:1, and 1.72:1
Dropping over time. See:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/hallaro01.php
2006: 59%
2007: 55%
2008: 54%
2005: 2.53
2006 2.33
2007 1.91
2008 1.84
2009 1.73
That is not an encouraging trend.
Lowe was 2.45 this past year. Wang 2.54 (injured). Cook: 2.31. A pile of cheaper options are ahead on GB%. Halladay is not a straight flyball guy. He misses bats and grounds out a lot of guys. Is he the best, most cost-effective guy? No.
Is his ration declining? Yes. Are we looking at him in Philadelphia for many years? Possibly, and the trends already there are alarming.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
P.S.
during this summer’s Halladay Mania episode, I cautioned that the guy is not god. He remains “not god” and the fan boy aspect of many of us should not blind us to the fact that he may be showing wear. The Phillies are in danger of buying at the absolute top here.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Cliff Lee is not god, either. He was demoted to the minor leagues no less than 2 years ago. This is a case of what the Phils think is affordable. All pitching contracts carry inherent risk.
I agree Lee is not god
I’m no Lee fanboy. I’m for a good team at an affordable cost with a minimum of risk. I do not want to see the Phillies crippled by a huge, bad contract. Get your WAR from a variety of sources to mitigate the risk.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yea I hope Ruben isn’t being blinded by the desire to just make a deal. White whale talk and all. However, I think Lee pitched a little above himself when he first came /playoffs. Halladay is more proven long-term
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:24 PM EST reply actions
So it sounds like we are definitly getting Halladay,
what we are giving up is not clear yet. Appearently the contract extention is a “formality”? When does that happen?
Halladay wanted to be in Philadelphia, as the Phillies train in Clearwater, Fla., not far from his offseason home.
this is really funny to me seeing as Toronto spring training is in Dunedin FL which is right next to Clearwater.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
That and the Blue Jays won’t sniff the playoffs
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
One thing I must say, out of SI/ESPN/MLB.com right here has the fastest news/analysis/whining/cheering of anywhere on the interwebs
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions
Who else is coming to Philly?
Brandon Morrow?
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 14, 2009 4:30 PM EST reply actions
I’d love to see us hold on to one or two of the prospects we’d get from the Mariners, especially if we’re trading MT. Some value aside from Halladay would be really nice.
by Michael Levin on Dec 14, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Except...
1. Halladay > Lee (exclusive of cost-control issues)
and
2. Lee > prospects.
Why would the Phillies get anything but Halladay?
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Because it can’t be simplified like that.
by Michael Levin on Dec 14, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
There were rumors
That the Jays would offer to pay for half of this years salary too, to do that means we give up something else.
A "ton of smaller pieces"
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1468
“According to multiple reports, Roy Halladay has been dealt to the Philadelphia Phillies as part of a three team deal. The Phillies will send Cliff Lee to the Seattle Mariners. There are also "a ton of smaller pieces" in this deal, players which I’m told are "top prospects" and "major league guys."
Discuss and I’ll update as the news comes in. "
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 4:32 PM EST reply actions
uggh… just so long as all the prospects and major league guys come from the Mariners.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 14, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
I’d love to hold onto Taylor and send Francisco in the deal, but that is at this point probably a pipedream.
Heyman just said on twitter...
im being told #halladay will agree on deal with #phillies, which would finalize trade. but not likely to happen today,
Source: Toronto getting Phil Aumont and Dominic Brown in 3-way Halladay/Lee deal involving SEA/PHIL and TOR
Via Jim Bowden’s Twitter (yes, really: http://twitter.com/jimbowdeniv !)
*sigh*
If that’s true, the Phillies give up Knapp, Carrasco, Donald, Marson, and Brown for a half-season of Lee (plus some awesome playoff pitching) and however many years Halladay ends up signing for.
*sigh*
Yeah, that’s weird. It was up there earlier (and I’m quoting from someone else too, so he saw it), but now it’s blank for me too.
*sigh*
It’s somewhere towards the bottom of this thread: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/fever_pitch_trade_talks_for_halladay_heating_up/ for reference. One of like 6 tabs I’m refreshing right now trying to figure out if anyone knows what the hell is actually going on.
*sigh*
Haha me as well with the 6 tabs. Thanks for pointing this out though, and maybe we’ll figure out what happened soon.
Thanks guys at least I can stay productive….oh wait….
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
There could be salary relief, too. Let’s wait until we hear all the details. I don’t see the Phillies as just “throwing in” someone like Brown.
Maybe it was Blanton and not Lee…does that make sense?
by Clyde Simmons on Dec 14, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Sources wouldn’t make that mistake….
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
if they had to throw in Brown … maybe
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Lee has been confirmed its the smaller pieces that aren’t
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing has been confirmed until Halladay signs an extension … just saying.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Very true. My point is that the deal is about Lee Halladay and Prospects. They wouldn’t choose the prospects then choose the center-piece of the whole negotiation…
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
well as an Eagles fan I seem to remember 3 years ago already trading for Larry Fitzgerald according to sources … and well that never worked out.
I admit at this point it’s more hope than reality but I’ll hold on as long as I can :)
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Yea true I remember that as well. But was Larry and his agent ever in Philly…
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Stop poking holes!!! … but are Lee and his agent in Seattle?
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
yea but would you trade for a pitcher for a 1 year rental …
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
they have cash, so they will try to give him a stupid deal
Lee and King Felix with the new 1-2 punch bats, and rumors for more…
Consider
Seattle got stronger (stole Figgins from the Angels) and the Angels have gotten weaker (losing Lackey and Figgins, and only getting [so far] Matsui). With this deal Seattle’s probably the big favorite in the AL West.
I dunno, how does one trade our 2nd best prospect in a swap of equal aces…this doesnt make sense
by Clyde Simmons on Dec 14, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. Twitter stories are nice and fast but who knows if they’re true at all…
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
With Bowden’s twitter exploding maybe he was incorrect and he wanted it gone…. just hoping
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
b/c in years past we wouldn’t know much until the very end. Now we’re catching bits and pieces as they get negotiated without finalizaiton
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
ESPN News saying sources close to Halladay that Roy was willing to take a discounted deal to sign with Phillies. Somewhere in 5 yr/$100MM range and this was something Lee was unwilling to do.
Thats what I’m talking about. Everyone hold off on the Amoron crap
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
That last tweet knocked the air out of this discussion, huh?
Ha I think it pissed off more people than anything. Bowden’s page is still not up…
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Just checking Google to verify that I’m not insane, you can see the Tweet in the Twitter search stream.
*sigh*
And now Heyman’s twitter is down
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:54 PM EST reply actions
If we do, this will be a case of Amaro having to get his man. Apparently, Halladay is someone he’s coveted for years.
Not having a good feeling about this...
Lee + top 3 prospect = fail
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
If Brown is traded, I hope he becomes a Hall of Famer in Toronto. Maybe that will finally teach Philadelphia a lesson. Then again, if we didn’t already learn that lesson from Ferguson Jenkins and Ryne Sandberg, maybe we’re just incapable.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=sihp SI update we send prospects to toronto as well but get some from seattle
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 14, 2009 4:57 PM EST reply actions
Proving that nobody knows shit, Jon Morosi (Fox Sports writer) says at http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/6674641214
Source says Aumont (from SEA) and M. Taylor (from PHI) among players heading to TOR.
*sigh*
That would be better than losing Brown
Plus, with the SI report, I wonder what prospect(s) we’d be getting from Seattle here.
I don't know what to think of that
other than the front office thinks Lee is going to want a butt-ton of money.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
Lee was also a salary dump to get Halladay
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 14, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Please let Victorino go instead of a prospect!
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
I’d trade Vic and put Taylor in…just to clear cap room.
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
oooh….now we’re getting metaphysical up in this bitch
by Michael Levin on Dec 14, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
+1, but not logical since he just came from there.
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
You gotta clean your shorts after seeing that comment.
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
You're dreaming.
No way. Why would Seattle be involved in that?
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
You get sick, go to sleep and wake up to find you've missed the world
I know we’re in rumor-frenzy right now, but GOOD LORD WTF? And I love how in the five minutes since I came to this site a dozen different players have been mentioned.
If we’re getting rid of Lee, there’s no reason to include prospects. None. If it’s somehow Blanton or Happ then maybe Taylor going would make sense, but the Phillies are getting hosed if the Lee/Brown price for Halladay is true.
Pat Burrell rumored to be in the deal and coming back to play 3rd!
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
by jonk on Dec 14, 2009 5:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
no no
We’re trading away Lee, Mike Schmidt, Ryne Sandberg, and $10 million in cash for Halladay
only if we’re good boys and girls. Then Santa Claus will give us the rights to sign Joe Cowley.
by Wet Luzinski on Dec 14, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
And good Saint Lance Parrish will stuff everybody’s chest protectors with money if you leave them outside your garage on Christmas morning.
by Wet Luzinski on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Hold On
How do we know we aren’t getting anything other than Halladay in this mega trade? What if we get a relief pitcher like a Scott Downs or Aardsma back?
I think the point is
That nobody, besides the 3 GMs, has a clue right now as to which players are involved here. Wait til tomorrow. Then complain.
We're screwed then
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
which is why I think he’s holding Taylor and dealing Brown.
by Wet Luzinski on Dec 14, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
taylor is closer, so
it would make more sense to ditch him. Brown can hang out another year in the minors without stagnating.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
But I think the Phillies are operating under the assumption that Brown is closer to helping the club, so they can let Werth walk when his contract is up. It’s sad, but this is the business side of baseball. I hate it. Why can’t we just be the Yankees and have it all?
Halladay is great, but I have questions.
First off he is 32.
5 years 100MM? thats 20 a year.
When he gets hurt, then WTF.
We a re paying a shit ton of money to our older players. WTF
Doubt it’s anywhere near 20mil a year
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I bet it is 20MM.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Who is Seattle giving up here?
It’s has to be more than just Aumont… idea’s?
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 14, 2009 5:15 PM EST reply actions
Halladay. Duh.
The thing is that Seattle has got to play some role here. Toronto is getting prospects. IF the Phillies cough up one guy and Lee (the prevailing hypothesis here) and the Jays cough up Halladay, Seattle doesn’t get Lee for a year for nothing (and presumably the picks he would result in if he leaves in FA).
Seattle has to be adding a prospect (or 3) or eating cash.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Lackey is rumored to be signing 82MM for 5 years
Just by way of comparison here. And the Sox will lose picks.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 5:15 PM EST reply actions
I personally think Halladay is much better than Lackey…
I think we need to remember that we are getting multiple years from Halladay and Lee was likely one and done…
World Ph*cking Champs! That was fun - let's do it again...
by Jordan Ellel on Dec 14, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
If we’re really giving Halladay a five-year extension, the multiple years are both a blessing and a curse. Halladay will turn 33 in May. That will mean that in the last year of his extension, he’ll turn 38 midway through the year.
For a guy that’s been as durable as Halladay, I’m not sure I’m opposed to having him signed for that many years (if it really is 5…who knows at this point?)
World Ph*cking Champs! That was fun - let's do it again...
by Jordan Ellel on Dec 14, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yup.
But how does the allocation of risk and the acquisition of WAR for 5 years work with Lackey v. Halladay?
Is Lackey + $4MM year for other needs > Halladay? Maybe, especially since the risk is spread. If the acquired WAR of Halladay = the same WAR of (Lackey + Other), then Halladay < (Lackey + Other). Think portfolio theory and risk modeling.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 14, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
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