Halladay/Lee Trades in Peril?
Toronto Sun reporter Bob Elliott tweets that someone involved in one of the deals flunked a physical, potentially throwing everything into chaos. So long as it doesn't come out that we trade Lee without getting Halladay, this actually could be a good thing...
7 months ago
dajafi
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Seriously? Your not playing around here are you? Don’t play with my feelings dajafi, I’ve been very emotional over the last couple days.
Scar tissue is stronger than muscle tissue. Realize the strength, move on.
click the link
The tweet is real. If anyone’s screwing with you—with us—it’s the Toronto reporter. But when you’ve got so many guys involved, including a few (Aumont, Drabek) with known past health issues, it’s certainly plausible.
What I don’t know is how interrelated everything is. The dream scenario IMO is that it’s Aumont who flunked, and either the Phils get a superior player from the Ms (Brandon Morrow, or the infield prospect Liddi), they put Cliff back on the market and wind up dealing him to the Angels or Rangers for a superior prospect package, or—I hesitate even to say it—they hold onto Lee after all and unleash The Devil’s Rotation on a helpless NL in 2010.
they hold onto Lee after all and unleash The Devil’s Rotation on a helpless NL in 2010.
I’ll have one of those, please.
by Screen Name 20 on Dec 16, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
It would be so funny (only in the most gruesome way) if only the Lee trade went through. On the bright side, we’d keep our big 3, but on the other hand we’d be getting less prospect value back than we gave up for him in the first place. I doubt there is any way that the Lee trade happens without the Halladay trade.
It would be outright malfeasance if the Lee trade wasn’t conditioned on the Halladay trade going thru.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Let’s just hope that it’s not drabek who failed the physical and then happ is inserted into the deal cause Ruben ‘must get’ Halladay at which point when all the debris clears the phillies are actually ‘down’ a pitcher.
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:15 PM EST reply actions
eh
Depending on how serious Drabek’s health problems were, I could see that being a net gain for us. Still believe Drabek will have a significantly better career than Happ.
Oh, I’m just looking at the short term…if happ is in the deal, there’s a hole in the rotation that Amaro has to figure out how to fill with his ‘saved’ 9 million dollars that there wasn’t beforehand.
All the ‘phillies are better right away’ talk gets dampened at least a little because instead of just swapping Halladay for Lee – you now have a hole in the back of your rotation and maybe Bastardo and Kendrick can fill it – but i’d rather (short term only) have happ here and have bastardo / kendrick fill in for when grandpa throws out his hip
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Drabek/Happ
I’d rather keep Drabek than Happ in a vacuum, but I don’t want to give up Happ if we are trading Lee. With Blanton as the #3, I really want Happ in the #4 spot for 2010. It’s a tough call.
I was only looking at ‘next’ season – trading Lee was to save cash but now you would have a hole in your rotation if Happ got swapped out for Drabek.
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Fun news! I hope this is right. And that the Phillies wind up with Lee in 2010. What a nice turn of events (possibly).
Yeah… I’m sure Lee wouldn’t be at all pissed off.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Lee’s gettting 9 million dollars next year whether he pitches in Philadelphia, where he could win a Cy Young and a world series, or Seattle where he might not even make the playoffs.
Why would he care either way? NL is the ‘easier’ league to pitch in supposedly
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I still think he’d be pissed off knowing the team tried to trade him. But he’s in a contract year, so if he wants to get paid like Sabathia, he better pitch like him.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
If any of the reports are true about his extension demands and the philadlephia philosophy, he had to know they’d be trying to trade him
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Speculation
If it’s the Toronto reporter, I’d have to think it’s likely to be someone who is part of the Halladay deal that flunked?
rumor
This is third-hand, but evidently 950 AM in Phila (ESPN radio) has it from a source that Aumont failed. INSHALLAH
AWESOME
Nix the Lee deal. Keep him, trade for Halladay. Spend the next four months figuring out finances or a better deal. How is this not a realistic situation?
by David S. Cohen on Dec 16, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Or just trade Blaton for peanuts. Or cupcakes. He’s got to be worth at least a grade C pitching prospect to some team needing pitching rotation depth.
Aren’t the reports out there that the phils tried to do that first and found no takers?
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
In the next three months, things could change. The Phils won’t start paying people until April.
by David S. Cohen on Dec 16, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
True, but the way this is playing out doesn’t it look like this is an all or nothing deal – the phils want to clear that ‘cap space’ and trade for Halladay at the same time…or why would they both have to happen at the same time?
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
No clue
I have no clue why this has to be done at the same time. There’s a long gap in time when this could get done. The Phillies have extra money on the books now, but it doesn’t matter, right? It won’t matter until April. I guess teams could believe the Phillies are in a bind and negotiate with them knowing that, but they know that now too.
by David S. Cohen on Dec 16, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
And I don’t disagree with you, I think the rush to trade Lee is silly because a team like the Angels might offer more due to losing lackey and keeping him from seattle even for that one year (plus they have a 3b prospect that doesn’t suck that they don’t like right?)
It’s like they’re operating under the assumption that no one else will want Cliff Lee and that just seems odd to me – hell offer him up to the NYY and Red Sox and start a bidding war – they’ll offer him that extension now possibly.
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but that’s when the Phillies were shopping Blanton in the hopes of replacing Drabek/Taylor/d’Arnaud, which was never going to happen. If they just put him up for auction, they’re bound to get one C+ level prospect (John Sickels rating system), which would be a no brainer.
Oh, ok, thanks for clearing that up.
Still think that makes more sense than rushing to trade Lee personally
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
It’s an interesting question as if a failed physical holds back the trade to Toronto, did the Phillies establish that the Lee trade is dependent on the other trade going through. I’d imagine it would be.
Also, couldn’t it easily be Brett Wallace (of the A’s) who flunked the physical, which wouldn’t affect the Phillies at all — unless the Jays really don’t want Taylor.
TSN
Reporting it wasn’t Aumont or Gillies. Oh hell, this is crazy
"It was almost like if Harry didn't call it, it wasn't real." - Jayson Stark
SB Nation
Colonel Mustard in the observatory with a tire iron!
by FuquaManuel on Dec 16, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
"It was almost like if Harry didn't call it, it wasn't real." - Jayson Stark
SB Nation
by Chris Haines on Dec 16, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
bacon and beer, the only things that matter.
Scar tissue is stronger than muscle tissue. Realize the strength, move on.
I prefer good old USA bacon that canadian bacon stuff is just ham
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Aluminum. Kid you not, we get around $8 billion worth of aluminum per year from Canada.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
But that doesn’t off set celine dion and that bitch anne murray too
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Word is it’s Aumont who failed.
Scar tissue is stronger than muscle tissue. Realize the strength, move on.
At least one guy on Bluebird banter claims sources (no linky) that says it’s Drabek.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
While it’d be great if that simply meant that Drabek was out of the deal, I honestly shudder to think how Amaro gets this done at that point. Drabek stays in the deal, and we flip in another prospect to cover the “risk”? Drabek’s out, so we give up Brown instead? I mean, Toronto’s made it clear that they’re not taking Aumont back.
Let’s be clear here: Halladay’s extension is signed, so this is getting done one way or the other. I just hope and pray that it doesn’t wind up costing us more.
I just saw that Phuture Phillies just tweeted essentially the same thing:
If its Taylor of Drabek, I can only imagine how badly Amaro is going to panic here. Brown, May, Gose and Cosart better pack their bags.
I knew it was agreed upon but it was signed? Without completion of the deal and physicals…strong that MLB would allow such shenanigans
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
He can’t give up Brown AND Taylor. He just can’t. He’s already on thin ice as far as I’m concerned, but if he did that then he would NEED to be fired on the spot. That would be simply irresponsible.
Since when has he acted responsibly in the last two weeks?
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
By the way, Lauber speculates that it's Taylor.
He stresses that it’s just speculation, but he does point out that Taylor left winter ball in Mexico after some elbow problems. I’d read that it wasn’t supposed to be anything serious.
If that were the case then he would have to put in Brown probably. Which would be worse than the existing deal.
worse...
by a long shot
If Brown goes in, Drabek comes out and is replaced with a lesser piece. Please?
http://www.thegoodphight.com
Except if a contract is already signed the jays hold more ‘chips’ in that the deal HAS to get done…if one of the pieces going to Toronto failed, Toronto actually probably now does have Amaro over a barrel as opposed to before when they didn’t but he acted like they did
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Beaney
I guess it’s a question of whether you think the inclusion of Taylor was at the request of the Blue Jays pursuant to an understanding with Beane/Oakland that the subsequent swap would be made. And whether Beane would allow them to “sub in” Brown instead. Apparently Beane has had his eye on Taylor for awhile, so who knows?
http://www.thegoodphight.com
I wish…can you image how different the world would be if they had fired a certain moron back in 2001?
Are we talking white house or comcast owned organization?
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
And i was just referring to the phillies organization – you know get rid of dallas green too
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Mabye… The Drabek rumor comes from the Drunk Jays Fans blog. It doesn’t cite anybody reliable, just “two people” who claim to be in the know. Take if for what its worth.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve seen tweets that it’s down to either Ramirez or one of the Phillies prospects.
With any luck, maybe it’s d’Arnaud, and we get to replace him with Sebastian Valle!
/thinking positive thoughts, thinking positive thoughts…
Micheal Taylor’s name is being thrown around a lot.
Scar tissue is stronger than muscle tissue. Realize the strength, move on.
Well Drabek had TJ surgery so maybe they didn’t like how it looked…
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Well of course not – the blue jays just get a list of phillies prospects and get to select one or two more to replace drabek…if he’s the guy…and that’s awesome
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
But if is Drabek, remember that Drabek is to the Blue Jays now what he was to the Phillies in July: a dealbreaker.
But if the contract is signed, then the deal has to get done does it not, or the phillies end up in breach?
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
depends on what the contract sez. I imagine all players passing physicals is a condition precedent to it going thru.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
No contracts can be official without all players passing there Physical, at least, thats what its like in Hockey and Football.
he’s a nice pitcher but I strongly prefer Drabek going forward, and you should too
http://www.thegoodphight.com
I do, but I can’t be too excited about a guy that failed a physical 2.5 years after surgery, if it is infact Drabek.
So, who pitches in place of happ next year, where does the money come from to pay the guy or do you plug kendrick/bastardo in and then plug the other guy in when moyer inevitable breaks?
It’s the budget issues that concern me if happ is included…
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I’d be encouraged by that if I wasn’t convinced that Amaro’s an idiot.
“Alex, I’m sorry about Drabek failing his physical. Hmmm, how can I make it up to you… look, how about you keep Drabek just as a throw in, and we’ll go ahead and add in any 3 prospects you want not named Brown. What’s that? Oh sure, Happ counts as a prospect. So I’ll put you down for Happ, Gose, and Cosart then. Pleasure doing business with you too.”
And in that scenario, Amaro sits there and thinks to himself…
“Hmmmm, how can I clear $6 million from payroll… how can I… hmmm. You know what? Maybe I can just trade Hamels! Yeah, that’s it! There’s a couple of fringe prospects from Seattle that I didn’t get last time around… alright, Rube, good thinking, buddy!”
Why does it seem like every time something ‘new’ comes out on this deal it gets worse for the phillies?
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 2:28 PM EST reply actions
Toronto sportswriter Jeff Blair may have a ray of sunshine for us…
Well-placed baseball source on failed physical reports involving a player coming to the Jays? “Totally false rumour.”
meaning (1) there is no failed physical of any player; or (2) the failed physical is not one of our prospects?
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
And, unceremoniously...
Cue Jim Salisbury:
Deal done!!!! 5 p.m. press conference…. who brings the hoagies???
I for one am just glad it’s over.
I’m still hoping Ruben sees common sense and puts Cliff Lee on the open market for bidding
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
check out Lookout Landing
and see how ecstatic the fans are about this Ruben. This is how we acted when the Phils picked up Lee for peanuts. It should be a sign that everyone is happy there and in TOR, but very few are as giddy as the other fan bases with teams involved in the trade.
Chase Utley is so good that on one pitch he stole second, third and the shortstop's hat.
Ruben only reads those columnists that praise him, ie, Conlin.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
But Ruben gave up Michael Taylor, which is bound to irritate Conlin eventually.
by ThinMountainAir on Dec 16, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Conlin will be distracted by the shiny-ness of Roy Halladay
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
They should be happy
They just got a really good pitcher. I doubt, however, that Toronto is jumping up and down. They are still losing their ace pitcher. We gave up a lot to get him, but there’s no guarantees they turn out to be what Cleveland fleeced the Expos for in the Colon trade.
They’re doing high fives, not cartwheels. Go look at bluebird banter.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 16, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Toronto was ALWAYS losing their ace pitcher, it was a fait accompli, they just got ‘over paid’ for him…so they should be thrilled, I doubt they’d have gotten a better package from anyone
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
we need Ruben to take a business class to learn about not wanting to be the person to “set the market” (ie Polanco) and about leverage and how to use it (Halladay). Here’s hoping it works out.
Chase Utley is so good that on one pitch he stole second, third and the shortstop's hat.
He ‘set the market’ for Ibanez too – just most other GM’s ignored that :)
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
whats worse than just setting the market, is setting it for someone who’s demand is not setting the world on fire, but is old enough to retire before the end of his contract.
Chase Utley is so good that on one pitch he stole second, third and the shortstop's hat.
Yeah well, that’s what makes him our ruben doesn’t it?
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
A graphic of ruben amaro being visited by the ghosts of trade past present and future would be nice
by jemagee on Dec 16, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for squandering our future, Ruben
Maybe you never read Moby-Dick, but CHASING A WHITE WHALE IS A BAD THING!! CAPTAIN AHAB DIES!! THAT’S THE POINT OF THE BOOK, YOU STUPID F***!!
You might have a Stanford degree, but you were there on an athletic scholarship, and you’re still a meathead all the same.
by taco pal on Dec 16, 2009 2:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe it’s the film version from 1930 where Ahab returns to his wife.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0021149/
Maybe? Please? Yuch.
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