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The Phillies All-Decade Team

Okay, this is kind of a weird exercise (especially with some of the rules I’m going to impose—see below). But we did have 100 percent roster turnover from the first Phillies team that took the field in Arizona on April 4, 2000 to the lineup in Game Six of the 2009 World Series on this past November 4—a fact in keeping with the 180 degree turnaround of the Phillies organization over that period. 

The really interesting question might be how this team compares with, say, the Yankees or Red Sox or Cardinals All-Decade teams. I guess this could be simulated, though I have neither the technical skills nor the frighteningly high levels of uber-geekery to pursue that exercise personally. This one’s plenty geeky enough, of course, and it beats doing work.

So, the rules: to be eligible, a player must have spent more than one full season with the Phillies in the role for which we’re considering him. This means, for instance, that Endy Chavez can’t be on the all-decade team, nor Rod Barajas. (Interestingly, Wes Helms can—he spent something like two days on the 2008 club. Not sure if he got a championship share; one would hope not.) While those guys obviously wouldn’t have made it on merit, Cliff Lee just as obviously would have, and David Dellucci, Raul Ibanez and Kenny Lofton all might have.

I’ll do position players today and pitchers later this week. All these choices are my opinions; as always, disagreement (polite) and debate is encouraged in the comments. 

Star-divide

Catcher: Mike Lieberthal

A member of the promising but ultimately disappointing core the Phils assembled late in the previous decade, Lieberthal had his very best season in 1999 at age 27, slugging 31 homers and hitting .300. But he continued to produce at a high level for years thereafter, turning in solidly above-average seasons at the plate in 2000, 2002 and 2003 and doing respectable work for three seasons thereafter, including 2006 when his health began to give way. While I don’t remember him as a very good defensive catcher, he wasn’t brutal either, and he seemed to call a pretty good game. It’s arguable that the worst thing about Lieby was his timing: his first season as a Phillie was 1994, a year after the team won the NL pennant, and his last was 2006, a year before the Phils took the first of three straight NL East titles. (Sadly, if he’d not been lost for most of the 2001 season with a terrible knee injury, the team might well have won the division that year.) Still, the .279/.345/.444 line he put up between 2000 and 2006 is pretty strong for a catcher, and gets him the nod—narrowly—over Carlos Ruiz, the superior defender but inferior (before October, at least) hitter who was the primary backstop for the three division winning teams. It’s also probably worth noting that Lieberthal played upwards of 130 games most seasons when he was relatively healthy; Chooch has yet to top 117 in any single campaign. 

First base: Ryan Howard

You were expecting Travis Lee? No later than 2007, his third season, it was evident that Howard was the greatest first baseman in the Phillies’ century-and-a-quarter history. A Rookie of the Year Award followed an MVP and three more top-five MVP finishes will do that. In some ways, 2009 was the big man’s most impressive season: after finally securing the enormous payday he’d been after since reaching the majors with a three year, $54 million contract, he not only didn’t slack off but dropped 25 pounds, dramatically improved his defense, reversed a three-year slide in his offensive numbers, and took NLCS MVP honors as the Phils won their second straight pennant. While Howard is the obvious choice here, we’d be remiss not to mention here Jim Thome, whose signing as a free agent seven winters ago arguably put the franchise on a trajectory toward baseball’s pinnacle and who was every bit as good as advertised in his first two seasons, even as the Phils fell just short of the postseason. Even Thome’s injury proved tremendously fortuitous; had the thirty-something slugger stayed intact in 2005, it’s very likely Ed Wade would have traded Howard for David Weathers or a reasonable facsimile thereof. The warm reception Thome got as a member of the Dodgers in this year’s NLCS was in part tribute to what he meant for the Phils both in his presence and his absence. 

Second base: Chase Utley

Maybe an even more obvious call, as there’s no Thome equivalent here (though Placido Polanco was pretty good in his first go-round as a Phillie). From his initial billing as a guy with above-average power for a middle infielder but a questionable approach at the plate and an even worse glove—I initially pictured him as a Todd Walker or Mark Grudzielanek type—Utley has emerged as the leader of a championship team and a guy who ultimately could put himself in the conversation among the greatest second basemen ever to play the game. Hyperbole? Baseball-Reference has Utley’s most comparable player as Joe Gordon, a Hall of Fame second baseman, and his career .295/.379/.523 batting line compares favorably to every second sacker in the Hall other than Rogers Hornsby. The one thing that would be nice is if the Gold Glove voters ever realized that Chase is about as superlative a defender as he is a hitter. 

Shortstop: Jimmy Rollins

There’s almost literally no alternative here, as Rollins has had the job since the start of the 2001 season. (Desi Relaford and Alex Arias handled shortstop duties for most of the 2000 season.) He’s the only player to have appeared for all ten Phillies teams in the decade, debuting in September 2000. We’ve pretty exhaustively covered Rollins’ ups and downs, attributes and shortcomings over the years, so there’s not much need to do so again here—but I’ll reiterate that this guy could well join Utley in Cooperstown one day. Barring collapse, he’s likely to finish well north of 2500 hits, 200 homers and 400 steals, with a clutch of Gold Gloves, an MVP award and a lot of leadership cred. He doesn’t compare quite as well to the Hall of Fame shortstops as Utley does to the second basemen, but few can match his across-the-board offerings of speed, power and defense. Rollins’ deficiencies as a leadoff hitter unfortunately obscure the totality of his excellence; he might be the signature player of this era of Phillies baseball, the greatest in team history. 

Third baseman: Scott Rolen

I’m not crazy about this either. If Thome was the harbinger of Phillies greatness and Howard, Utley and Rollins were the guys who did the most to fulfill the promise, Rolen was the last and in some ways most painful exemplar of everything wrong with the organization leading up to the current period of greatness. A homegrown star who was, along with Curt Schilling, pretty much the reason to watch the Phils through their late-1990s malaise, Rolen soured on the team immediately after Larry Bowa was hired. Bowa’s first season of 2001, which brought the Phils their first winning record and brush with contention in eight years, was Rolen’s unhappiest as a pro to that point; in retrospect, that he hated the manager more than he loved the experience of playing meaningful late-season baseball maybe should have resonated with some of us (me) more than it did. But putting all that bad feeling aside, the man could play: he hit a combined .297/.394/.523 in 2000-2001, while winning two Gold Gloves. Suffice it to say that the third basemen who’ve followed since—David Bell, Abraham Nunez, Wes Helms, Greg Dobbs, and Pedro Feliz—haven’t quite measured up. Feliz was probably the next-best of the bunch, and you know how we at TGP felt about that guy. 

Left field: Pat Burrell

Again, Raul Ibanez isn’t eligible by my arbitrary rules, as he spent only 2009 with the Phils. But would you really turn aside Pat anyway? He wasn’t quite as central to the team’s success as the Big Three infielders, but his personal arc over the course of the decade uncannily mirrored the team’s: from hope to disappointment and stagnation to sweet, sweet redemption. Burrell’s great 2002 season, when he hit 37 home runs and posted a .920 OPS as a 25 year-old, set expectations that might have exceeded his abilities; those expectations crushed him during his nightmarish 2003. But after an injury-marred ’04, he emerged as a supremely streaky hitter who nevertheless put up more or less the same numbers year after year after year: around 30 homers, 95 RBI, .900 OPS. And those streaks! From July 8 to September 13, 2007—a stretch of 59 games—Burrell put up a .337/.453/.679 line as the Phils were trying to hang in the division race that they subsequently came back to win.  He was Albert Pujols for two months. The next spring, he was the biggest reason the Phils got off to a strong start, hitting .289/.433/.614 through the team’s first 70 games.  After a relative fade for most of the next four months, Pat ended his Phils tenure right: the big double in Game 5.2 to put the team on track for the World Series clinching win, the parade with Elvis, an emotional return in April 2009 to get the ring for which he’d worked so hard. Burrell’s 251 home runs for the Phils in the decade were a team high, followed by Howard’s 222. 

Center field: Shane Victorino

Probably the toughest choice of any position, as Aaron Rowand, Marlon Byrd and even arguably Jason Michaels have arguments in addition to the Flyin’ Hawaiian. (Sorry, Doug Glanville.)  But the many elements to Shane’s game give him the nod in my view. He’s scored over 100 runs in each of his two seasons as the regular CF, he led the league in triples in 2009 (I had no idea, honestly), and he’s long since dispelled questions about whether he could hold up physically with everyday use. Crazy Victorino stat: in 32 career postseason games, he has a slugging percentage of .513. More revealing number? His on-base percentage has improved in each of his four seasons as a regular or semi-regular. It shouldn’t be controversial to assert that he, not Rollins, is this team’s best leadoff hitter going forward. Rowand is the runner-up here; his 2007 Gold Glove marked the first of the Phils’ three straight at the position. (Victorino’s in ’09 was something of a bad joke, but in general this isn’t an award that’s particularly well quantified.)  Despite his propensity for self-damage, Rowand played 161 games in ’07, hitting .309 with 27 homers. I don’t really buy that he "taught them how to win" or any of that nonsense, but I can believe that he gave the team a certain confidence and swagger they might previously have lacked as they broke through after years of painful near-misses. 

Right field: Bobby Abreu

Another difficult call on emotional grounds, as Jayson Werth emerged at the end of the decade as the team’s breakout star who did pretty much everything Abreu once had done, playing better defense but hitting for a lower average and drawing fewer walks. Still, Abreu’s body of work as a Phillie is tremendously impressive: in the six seasons from 2000 to 2005, he averaged 159 games, 107 runs scored, 25 homers, 97 RBI, 31 steals and 110 walks while batting .300 on the nose with a .411 on-base percentage and slugging .517. His combination of grace on the field and relatively stolidity off it was often mistaken for indifference; but I’d call it supreme professionalism. It’s arguable that no Philadelphia athlete has been less appreciated for the excellence he so consistently delivered. Abreu probably won’t quite finish with the counting stats or high-profile attainments needed for a strong Hall of Fame case, but there were very few who could match him for durability and accomplishment during the decade. As for Werth, through his three-year Phillies the team has asked him to do more and more, and his performance has improved every time his role has expanded. From fourth outfielder in 2007 to emerging right field starter midway through 2008 to sole right-handed slugger in ’09, the guy has stepped up his game repeatedly. Now heading into his 30s as an established star, it will be very interesting to see if he can sustain it, and if he’s a Phillie for the long term. 

Bench: Ruiz (catcher), Thome (1b), Polanco (utility), Rowand (outfield), Werth (outfield)

Lineup: Victorino/Rollins/Utley/Howard/Rolen/Abreu/Burrell/Lieberthal

0 recs  |  Comment 135 comments |

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an angry Doug Glanville is someone not to be trifled with.

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 21, 2009 1:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Always best not to piss off the Mechanical Engineers….Go Quakers!!!

Philly Sports and Coyotes Hockey - and yes, I am tired of defending my teams...

by Moridin417 on Dec 21, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good, because he was a civil engineer!

by taco pal on Dec 21, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Specializing in mass transit no less!

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 21, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldnt even want that starting lineup...

at least in its current playing level

by Ant on Dec 21, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

to be clear

I’m talking about the platonic ideal of those guys, as they were at their best in whatever point during their tenure with the Phils in this decade (e.g. Lieberthal 2003, Rolen 2000, Howard 2006, Rollins ’07, et al)

by dajafi on Dec 21, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If only we could have had 2002’s Pat Burrell for a whole decade…

by yosoysean on Dec 21, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the man part or the machine part?

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 21, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’d be more curious to see the pitching all-decade team

by Clyde Simmons on Dec 21, 2009 2:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts:

5 starters (Lee not eligible per the rules):
Randy Wolf
Brett Myers
Cole Hamels
Jon Lieber
Vicente Padilla

4 relievers:
Rheal Cormier
Ryan Madson
Aaron Fultz
JC Romero

closer:
Brad Lidge. Jose Mesa and Billy Wagner are other possibilities.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 21, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kevin Millwood is another possibility.

by taco pal on Dec 21, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, towards the bottom, there was some debate for me between Lieber, Padilla, and Millwood. What got me was that Millwood only played two seasons with the Phils and had a sub-100 ERA+ both years (99 and 93). Padilla threw 5 years (and a partial), and his two worst were about equal to Millwood. Lieber was around league average all three years, but that was still about the fifth-best starter I could find, sadly enough.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 21, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

what about Robert Person?

by Ant on Dec 21, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I missed Person. OK, so the candidates for the bottom slots:

Robert Person (1999-2002) – 108 games, 99 starts, 606.1 IP, 7.9 K/9, 1.81 K/BB, 105 ERA+
Kevin Millwood (2003-2004) – 60 games, 60 starts, 363.0 IP, 7.3 K/9, 2.47 K/BB, 96 ERA+
Vicente Padilla (2000-2005) – 162 games, 111 starts, 741.1 IP, 6.0 K/9, 1.95 K/BB, 104 ERA+
Jon Lieber (2005-2007) – 76 games, 74 starts, 464.1 IP, 5.9 K/9, 3.48 K/BB, 99 ERA+

Unfortunately, Schilling only played part of one season in this era, or he’d be a shoo-in.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 7:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Phillies starting pitching

That’s just awful.

Remember the Phitans

by RememberthePhitans on Dec 22, 2009 8:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

JA Happ

It might be easier to see after watching him over the next few seasons, but I think his small sampling in this Decade is pretty good.

JA Happ (2007 – Present) – 44 games, 28 starts, 201.2 IP, 6.7 K/9, 2.08 K/BB 133 ERA+

by CountryRoads_to_a_WFC on Dec 22, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Moyer? (2006-2009) 104 games, 99 starts, 47-31, 609.0 IP, 5.6 k/9, 2.11 K/BB 99ERA+

certainly comparable to that crew

by irons21 on Dec 22, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Personal opinion, I’d put Moyer sixth. I’d replace Lieber with Person on my list, so it’d be Wolf, Hamels, Myers, Padilla, Person. Moyer’s equal to or slightly better than Lieber, and better than Millwood, in my opinion.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Blanton’s certainly in the mix also

44 g, 44 gs, 16-8, 266IP, 7.2 k/9, 3.1 k/bb, 104ERA+

by irons21 on Dec 22, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree. I really liked Person when he was here, he and Wolf were sadly our 1-2 punch but he was pretty consistent for us. Still don’t like Padilla that much in the list. What sad starters we had.

by Ant on Dec 22, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I remembered Person’s fifteen-win season in 2001, but until I looked up his stats just now, I had forgotten all about the two other decent seasons he posted here in 1999 and 2000. He had legit stuff and I don’t think he was a fluke. If he hadn’t gotten hurt in 2001, he might have had several more good years. It’s too bad.

On the downside, the “Person People” were the lamest of the fan clubs of that era.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank God that trend died, lest we be subjected to Hamels Camels, Moyers Lawyers and Happ’s Craps.

by Cormican on Dec 23, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually saw a group purporting to be Moyer’s Lawyers this year at CBP. But it was just for one game. You can’t sustain that kind of thing without a 700 level. The dudes were just wandering around the Ashburn’s Alley area trying to get on camera.

by taco pal on Dec 23, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My brother was one of the founders of Flash’s Heroes, he was the guy in the Spiderman costume. They had a trip planned to go to Shea with the Wolf Pack at one time as well as good friends with Scott Matherson when he was up on the roster at the time, I think he’s got like 5 autographed balls laying around and they met Flash as well.

by Ant on Dec 23, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely agree with this! What about Kevin Millwood?

by Phanatic43 on Dec 22, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s definitely a bunch of more difficult calls. There were a lot of Phillies pitchers who had at least one good to really good season this decade, but not many at all who had more than, say, two.

by dajafi on Dec 21, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

this was kind of my point. judging that the one person who has attempted to do it has Jon Lieber and Vincente Padilla on his list, I think it was a reasonable one.

The rotation has consistently been inconsistent. Does that make them consistent? wait..I’m confused.

by Clyde Simmons on Dec 21, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

j-roll

Chris Rock once had a quote to the effect of “Ever since I met Lorne Michaels, I haven’t been broke a day of my life.” Well for us, ever since the Phillies met Jimmy Rollins, they haven’t been bad for a single season. I’m not saying correlation proves causation or anything. I’m just saying that for that reason, J-Roll will always be the person I most identify with this period of Phillies history, personality-wise.

by taco pal on Dec 21, 2009 2:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Love it.

Great stuff, can’t quibble with any of the choices at all.

I think it shows just how good this current incarnation of the Phillies is — we don’t remember Victorino as the best center fielder because he won the World Series, but because, objectively, he absolutely was the best center fielder of this decade. When 6 of 9 spots are filled by guys on that World Series team, that’s impressive.

by PhillyFriar on Dec 21, 2009 2:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

BUT AARON ROWAND RAN INTO A WALL AND BROKE HIS NOSE

by jemagee on Dec 21, 2009 3:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Which makes him Manlier in my book…

by Clyde Simmons on Dec 21, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In my book it made him dumber than Shane – which turns out is pretty tough

by jemagee on Dec 21, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t say they did – you’re the one who said it made him manlier than victorino – I just said it made him dumber.

I didn’t connect the two – that must just be your subconscious :)

by jemagee on Dec 21, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

um, Vic got married in shorts. It’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and.

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 21, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s Hawaii. That’s just fine there.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Dec 21, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It is OK at funerals too?

by taco pal on Dec 21, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

actually, it is

shorts and a Hawaiian shirt are acceptable for any occassion
I lived there for 3 years and it was great
if I ever win FE (f*@$ everbybody) money in the lottery, I’m going to live there

by SmilingJPhilsPhan on Dec 21, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Santa Barbara Dress code is very casual, I wear jeans to work every day, ‘dressing up’ involves nothing more than slightly more appropriate slacks and a button down shirt.

When I move the worst part will be the need for a new wardrobe

by jemagee on Dec 21, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, like they wear on Psych, except that most of that ain’t shot in Santa Barbara (most of the aerial shots however are ;) )

by jemagee on Dec 28, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If you just looked at best individual season – would CF and Catcher change at all (I don’t believe any of the other 8 positions would change under that criteria)

by jemagee on Dec 21, 2009 4:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Catcher would not, though Rowand might take over in CF. His 2007 season was really good.

by taco pal on Dec 21, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think any of the position player choices were really all the difficult to mull.

Lieby vs Chooch (and maybe Rowand vs Vic) are the only ones where debate might even be appropriate.

I really liked Liebs, but it used to drive me nuts every time an awesome throw from the outfield would come to him and pop right out of his glove before he’d go for the tag. Aside from that, I had no problems with him and forgive his late career decline owing to injury.

by Bilzo on Dec 21, 2009 4:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

yep. He pretty much nailed it. Not much to debate, really. I’m waiting for pitchers. Now that should stir up the pot a little bit. Brett Myers better be on the list …(ducks)…

by Boundforbeach on Dec 21, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

awesome

Was actually going to put in something like “if only he could field the throw for any play at the plate”… great minds and all that.

by dajafi on Dec 21, 2009 5:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

That’s not a bad group of players, can’t really argue with any of those selections.

Scar tissue is stronger than muscle tissue. Realize the strength, move on.

by JCB79 on Dec 21, 2009 4:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I can think of some places where the right fielder might raise a holy war

by jemagee on Dec 21, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m still not an Abreu fan, but his 6(?) years of production in the 2000’s is way better than Vic’s one season, or Werth’s 2 or anything that Geoff Jenkins did.

Kinda like asking a sane republican which person they’d elect president:
Obama or Osama.

by Bilzo on Dec 21, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

asking a what?

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 21, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

geez no wonder the team sucked in 2000

looking up and down that roster it’s pretty pathetic (though Rico Brogna strikes a cord in my heart). and what’s with Andy Ashby as the opening day starter?!?

by LondonPhillie on Dec 21, 2009 9:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

You could do worse than having Lieberthal, Abreu, Rolen and Burrell (who was promoted in May or so) as the lineup core—all 28 or younger, all cheap.

That team actually was expected to contend. They traded prospects for Ashby the previous winter, and thought that he, Schilling and Byrd (who was good in ’99) would be a great front three with Wolf and Person rounding it out. But Schilling started the year hurt, Ashby and Byrd were terrible, they had no bullpen, and the rest of the lineup was lousy.

by dajafi on Dec 21, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good points. A starting 5 of Schilling, Ashby, Byrd, Wolf and Person should have been very good. I’ve never been a big fan of Ashby, but Schilling is just a few notches below being a certain HOFer. Byrd is spotty, but had some very good seasons, Wolf is a very effective lefty and I always thought Person was a little underrated. So much of baseball is luck to a certain extent and the Phils, were very unlucky in the early 2000s. Which they then followed with a few years of incompetence, prior to the current good times.

by Cormican on Dec 21, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That 2000 lineup was infuriating. Rolen and Abreu were good bats, and Gant, Burrell, and Lieberthal were all around average. Unfortunately, Relaford, Glenville, and Morandini made Feliz look like Pujols at the plate.

Brantley was an atrocious closer. The best thing about Boyd was that he only pitched 34 innings. Brock, Gomes, and Vosberg were decent relievers, but only decent. All of the relievers gave up too many walks (Brock was the lowest at 4.0 BB/9), and Brock, Brantley, and Vosberg gave up too many homeruns. Evil Lidge was worse than the relieving corps that year, but not much worse.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 7:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lieberthal was well above average for a catcher. For a while, he was one of the top five hitting catchers in MLB. I never understood the level of hatred he received from the fans here.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

See Abreu, Bobby, Burrell, Pat

I think for the same reasons

No visible grittitude or hustleability etc…

by jemagee on Dec 22, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Burrell isn’t in the same category as those other two guys. I’d classify his relationship with the fans as more “love/hate”. He was certainly underappreciated but he was still well=liked by some of the fans all of the time and all of the fans some of the time.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he got a lot more hate than necessary and his ‘appreciation’ base was about the same as the ‘abreu appreciation’ base…being here when the team got that world series was helpful of course.

I never understood why in a town where he was so under appreciated (to me) he refused to be traded (according to reports) a couple times…never made any sense to me

by jemagee on Dec 22, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No chance. Abreu had it much worse.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pat the Bat always got extra attention because of the JD Drew fiasco the year prior to the Phillies drafting him. Pat needed to be amazing, to show up JD Drew (in some people’s eyes). In some ways he represented 2 drafts for the Phillies so he got extra attention from the get go. Had Drew signed with the the team or the team drafted someone instead of Drew that year, Burrell would have just been another pseudo anonymous guy coming up through the system.

by Cormican on Dec 22, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

People thought Lieberthal was gay, which simply doesn’t fly among our bigoted fanbase —or any fanbase for that matter.

by FuquaManuel on Dec 22, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Never seemed to hurt Piazza, who was stuck with those rumors for much of his career.

by Cormican on Dec 22, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

First I heard of it

He should be like jeter and date a series of ‘beautiful’ women – acts as a good beard

by jemagee on Dec 22, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The point isn’t that he’s actually gay, it’s just that he was rumored to be. Which I hadn’t known about, but I don’t doubt FM’s account. In real life, Lieberthal is married with a kid. I know that doesn’t necessarily close the case, but it’s a pretty strong datapoint all the same.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure is, Tom Cruise depends on all of us to believe that too.

Seriously, I don’t care much if a guy is gay or not as long as he doesn’t suck at the sport he chooses to play and I root for him…‘statistical probability’ indicates that there are gay professional athletes in every league even today (Gasp I know) and maybe if the average sports fan wasn’t so insecure in his own heterosexuality it wouldn’t matter that fracking much.

I find it fascinating when I hear players who were discriminated against in sports less than 70 years ago spew forth with the same kind of bile towards homo sexual ahtletes that would have been spewn forth towards them, it’s sad that nothing has been learned

by jemagee on Dec 22, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, sure. Nevertheless, it’s equally obnoxious to go around declaring that everyone who’s rumored to be gay is actually gay. Even if we agree (to paraphase Seinfeld) that there isn’t anything wrong with it, in a situation like Lieberthal’s accusing someone of being gay is also accusing him and his wife of being liars and living in a sham marriage. There is something wrong with saying that.

I have no doubt that there are gay pro athletes. I don’t think following rumors is an accurate method of guessing who they might be.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just shocked at FM"s statement, because, like you, i had never heard anything about lieberthal aside from his ability to catch a throw from the outfield

by jemagee on Dec 22, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Merek Lieberthal? Merek? Now WTF is that?

by FuquaManuel on Dec 22, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I thought that was weird too. Maybe he was thinking about Kent Mercker?

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Or this:

Mereks were strange half-arachnid, half-monkey creatures native to the Forest Moon of Endor. They were loners and not particularly aggressive in the wild.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stil not as bad as

Kal-El
Pilot Inspektor
Apple

by jemagee on Dec 22, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Apple isn’t so bad.

by FuquaManuel on Dec 22, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s a fruit, not a name.

by jemagee on Dec 23, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Incidentally, one of the ironies of Lieberthal’s career is that circa 1995 or so, the Phillies got bashed consistently for having selected Lieberthal with the third pick in the draft ahead of Alex Fernandez, who was hands-down the best college pitcher in the draft that year. But somewhere along the line people forgot all about it because Fernandez blew out his arm in ’97 and disappeared. In the final analysis, Lieberthal arguably ended up having the better career of the two.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

memories

I remember, after that somewhat not pukeworthy 1999, that the 2000 team had a real shot to make some noise. Oh well. I guess they did in 2001.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Dec 22, 2009 7:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Howard signed a contract for TK Million?

by Cormican on Dec 21, 2009 9:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

When numbers are replaced with letters it becomes magic… We’re now paying him in Harry Potter books and dvds.

Scar tissue is stronger than muscle tissue. Realize the strength, move on.

by JCB79 on Dec 21, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

dammit

I knew there was something I’d needed to go back and get the detail on. Now fixed.

by dajafi on Dec 21, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dynasty!

I think we have the best group of guys of all-time. I know that’s extreme but look we have 3 consecutive division titles, a championship, and we’ve been to the world series back-to-back years. I love that were proving people wrong and that we’re not going to be the worst team of all-time anymore if we keep it up for several more years. Philly 4 Life.

by Phanatic43 on Dec 22, 2009 1:40 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting point

I was wondering more or less the same thing…if you made this the all-decadetime Phillies team, how many of the position player slots would change? The pitching staff would be completely different (Carlton, Bunning, Roberts, Alexander), but aside from catcher and third base, how many position players would obviously (OPS+-wise) change?

Obvious keepers are: Howard, Utley, Rollins.

I think Burrell and Abreu are arguably keepers, too, though Luzinski could keep out Pat.

Maybe even Victorino in center. I mean, would you rather have Maddox or Ashburn instead of Shane? I’d give the nod to Ashburn (OB% slightly under .400 for his career and OPS+ of 111) slightly over Victorino (.347 and 99, respectively) and Maddox is .320 and 100, but if you factor in his defense, I would wager that Victorino might be more valuable. I do not have range data or WAR data on hand to support that and it is coming straight from my ass. I think Ashburn prevails, ultimately.

I think catcher and third base would be different, clearly. I am not sure at this point who I would put at catcher — I’d have to look at numbers. Seminick (huge OPS+ numbers before he went to Cincy: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/seminan01.shtml)? Boone? To some extent, durability and length of stay with the team should probably be a factor. I’d vote for Andy Seminick, even if only for the 143 OPS+ for the Whiz Kids, though his 6 years of starting for the Phillies look to average an OPS+ of about 115. Still good for a catcher.

Third is Schmidt, of course.

Remember the Phitans

by RememberthePhitans on Dec 22, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Chuck Klein in right field.
Chuck Klein played 15 years in Philadelphia, averaging .326/.382/.553. He was the 1932 NL MVP with 98% of the vote, led the league in slugging 3 times and OBP 1 time, and led the league in home runs four times. Klein’s 2nd all-time in OPS for the Phillies, behind Ryan Howard.

For catcher, I’d consider Darren Daulton. Career OPS+ with the Phillies of 114, but was wildly inconsistent at the plate – he had an OPS+ of 55 in 1987, and 156 in 1992. Seminick was also inconsistent, varying between 60 and 143, with an average of 110. Jack Clements averaged a 118 OPS+ over 14 years, but I want to limit the number of dead ball era players, so I’m sticking with Klein in right field and Daulton behind the plate.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Going waaaaaaay back, Ed Delahanty in the OF (I don’t see anywhere which OF position he played). Played 13 seasons with the Phillies from 1888-1889, 1891-1901. Put up a 153 career OPS+ with the team. Posted seasons of 190, 189, 187, and 186 OPS+es.

There’s also Billy Hamilton. With his skills I’d think it would be a good bet that he played CF. He played only 6 seasons with the Phillies (1890-1895) but is the Phillies career leader in stolen bases as well as batting average and OBP.

More recently, Lenny Dykstra put up a 122 OPS+ in his 8-season Philadelphia career. That’s certainly better than Victorino’s numbers.

by yosoysean on Dec 22, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you need to avoid dead ball era players for 2 reasons.

1. There’s no way to actually see them playing, and I have no idea how accurate statistics are from the late 19th/ early 20th century.

2. It was a completely different game by all accounts.

by Cormican on Dec 22, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The statistics are fairly accurate, according to some guys I know that have looked at old tape and compared it to what was reported. Obviously we can’t be 100% certain, particularly for the 19th-century players, but the evidence suggests that the numbers are relatively accurate.

It was a different game, which does need to be accounted for. Bunts were far more common, and home runs far more rare (my great-great-uncle was once 3rd in the NL in home runs – with 8). Batting averages haven’t changed that much, though. Looking at the batting champions, the average batting average for each decade:
1880s: 0.370
1890s: 0.387
1900s: 0.359 (note: the AL started in 1901, as did the foul strike rule)
1910s: 0.362
1920s: 0.391 (the ball was hardened and the spitball banned)
1930s: 0.368
1940s: 0.351
1950s: 0.346
1960s: 0.332
1970s: 0.345
1980s: 0.347
1990s: 0.354
2000s: 0.352

Basically, the dead-ball era had a .370 batting average for batting leaders, while post-dead-ball era is .350. That would suggest approximately a .95 adjustment factor (reduce BA by 5%), but extra base hits should increase – from 1918 to 1921, home runs quadrupled. Since most of the players were the same, the changes in equipment were the likely proximate cause of the increase in XBH.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I looked at Delahanty and Hamilton, but chose Klein over them. Hamilton’s better on OBP; Delahanty’s just below Abreu in that stat (Abreu’s 4th, Delahanty’s 5th).

Delahanty was a left fielder (1054 games in LF, 250 CF, 40 RF). Hamilton was, indeed, a center fielder (434 games LF, 986 CF, 164 RF).

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Klein was a great hitter, but he was also helped immensely by the Baker Bowl.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe, but the Baker Bowl wasn’t as friendly as its dimensions suggest. To provide a reference, the Green Monster is 37 feet high, 310 feet from home plate. The Baker Wall in right field was 60 feet high, 300 feet from home, and the clubhouse in center was 47 feet high at 408 feet from home. Only left field was short and shallow, at 12 feet and 341 feet.

Klein also played a few seasons at Shibe, although by then he was already in decline as a player

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Monster is 310 down the line. Baker Bowl was 300 in the power alley.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You’re right – I misread the ballparks.com sheet on the Baker Bowl because it only has one set of dimensions for left field and two for right.

280.5 down the line, 300 in right-center. Fenway’s 310 down the line and 379 in left-center. Center is still deep and high, right’s shallow and high, left is shallow and low. Fenway’s 12 feet deeper in center, but 30 feet shorter in wall height.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

all-time team

Schmidt of course. (Another interesting question is whether Utley might have a chance to displace Schmidt as “greatest Phillie ever.” I doubt it, but it’s not impossible.) The three current infielders all would be on there, for sure. I think the OF starters still would be Klein, Whitey and one of Allen, Luzinski, Ennis, Burrell or Abreu; haven’t thought about that in awhile.

On catcher I once wrote a long piece here asking if Lieby was the greatest catcher in Phils history. It’s a bit embarrassing that I can’t decide if, or how, I answered it… my inclination too is go to with Seminick or Boone.

If you did a 25 or 40 man all-time Phils roster, my guess is that about a quarter of it, maybe even more, would come from guys who played for the team in the last ten years.

by dajafi on Dec 22, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

all time

Ashburn, Utley, Howard, Schmidt, Delahanty, Klein, Seminick, Rollins, (DH) Hamilton!! Bench: Leiberthal, Allen, Ennis, T. Taylor, Maddox!

Carlton, Bunning, Alexander, Roberts, Short
Konstanty, McGraw, Baldshun, Reed, Roebuck, Madson

Practice Squad: Callison, Wise, McBride, Wagner, Dykstra, Boone, T. Gonzalez, Trillo, Unser, Victorino, Abreu.

mark ferraro

by ginzo on Dec 22, 2009 12:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Really? A DH and a Practice Squad? Otherwise I can’t really argue with the list.

by Cormican on Dec 22, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How about all-time worst players roster?

Anyone can fill-in the blanks here…

1b:
2b:
ss:
3b:
C:
lf:
cf:
rf:

sp:
sp:
sp:
sp:

rp:
rp:
rp:
rp:
rp:
rp:

cl:

bench:
bench:
bench:
bench:
bench:

by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 22, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll start

SS: Steve Jeltz

Someone else fill in the rest.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brogna/Lee at first base?

by jemagee on Dec 22, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not even close. The lowest in my lifetime had to have been Pete Rose in 1983 (69 OPS+). Brogna and Lee were both in the 90s, and my off-the-cuff recollection is that both were good fielders.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll give you Jeltz

But I want the utility infielder on the bench to be Ruben Amaro.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Count it….

We could maybe expand this to the executive leadership and owners too

by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 22, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was actually thinking Ruben Sr. – hit .234/.309/.292 over 6 seasons, with an OPS+ of 74 and pretty average fielding. Ruben Jr. was an outfielder who was probably a smidgen better than his father.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sp: adam eaton

by philsfreak6 on Dec 22, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sp: Lefty Hoerst. 5 seasons. 10-33, 0.60 K/BB ratio, ERA+ of 68 with the Phightins. His lowest ERA for a season was 4.61, and it was 7.94 his last year.

sp: The inappropriately named Bill Champion. 12-31 over 4 seasons, with a 1.06 K/BB, 1.562 WHIP, and ERA+ of 72.

rp: Boom-Boom Beck. 12-33 over 5 seasons, 3.1 K/9, 3.0 BB/9, cumulative ERA+ of 80, WHIP of 1.496.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 22, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm game for this exercise

(caveat – non-statistical analysis done strictly from memory)

1b: Gregg Jefferies
2b: Mark Lewis
ss: Desi Relaford
3b: Abraham Nunez
C: Sal Fasano
lf: Danny Tartabull
cf: Wendell Magee
rf: Rex Hudler

sp: Adam Eaton (gets ball on opening day)
sp: Pat Combs
sp: Matt Beech
sp: Mark Leiter

rp: Turk Wendell
rp: Jack Taschner (LOOGY)
rp: Jeff Parrett
rp: Bronson Heflin
rp: Wayne Gomes

cl: Mark Leiter (intentionally used twice)

bench: Randy Ready
bench: Ricky Otero
bench: Eric Bruntlett
bench: Kevin Sefcik
bench: Bobby Estalella

by irons21 on Dec 22, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

this is vomitastic. I would weep for your memories, but alas, they are mine too.

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 22, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we weep together my friend

by irons21 on Dec 22, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There has to be some sort of minimum criteria though, right? Some September call-up who strikes out three times in his only three AB with the team shouldn’t be eligible, for instance.

Most of Jeff Parrett’s brief tenure here was actually pretty solid. He had a good first year, then went south.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to suggest that they would have to have started at the position for, say, at least 3/4 of one season (120 games) to qualify?

by jemagee on Dec 22, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was following the rule from the original list – more than one season with the team.

irons – I see your Abraham Nunez, and raise you a John Vukovich. Career OPS+ with the Phillies of 14. As a starting 3B in 1971, he hit an awesome .166/.211/.189 with 5 doubles and no triples or home runs.

For 2b, I’d propose Ted Sizemore. Combined .256/.315/.314 in 2 seasons with the Phillies, and was only an average fielder. He was RoY with LA at age 24, but by age 32, when we got him, he wasn’t a great player any more. His OPS+ his second season with us was 47.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Dec 23, 2009 7:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

void for lack of ricky otero

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Dec 22, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Check the bench.

Also Gregg Jeffries wasn’t great or anything, but worst 1 bagger of all time seems pretty harsh.

by Cormican on Dec 22, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

missing players/changes; going back in time

John Hernstein at 1st; Billy Consolo at 2nd; John Vukovich at 3rd; Joe Cawley, #2 starter; Bill Champion, 4th starter; Bench, Bobby Malkmus, Solly Drake, and choo choo coleman.

mark ferraro

by ginzo on Dec 23, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

using Mark Leiter twice...

GENIUS!

I have to argue, though, for the inclusion of Juan Bell—the worst player I can ever remember seeing on the Phillies, in ’92 and ’93—and the exclusion of Estalella, who was terribly disappointing but not awful.

(The all-disappointment team… one to think about on some future dreary day.)

by dajafi on Dec 23, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

what about Omar Daal?

by Ant on Dec 22, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

All time:

Joe Cowan (he breaks the arbitrary length of service issue, but I think the universe would have imploded had his ERA been allowed to skyrocket for an additional season.

by Cormican on Dec 22, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Joe Cowley you mean?

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 22, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Knew it looked wrong, but didn’t care enough to look it up.

by Cormican on Dec 22, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meanwhile...

In today’s performance of “An Opposing GM Saving the Phillies from a Stupid Reliever Signing,” the role of Ed Wade will be played by Tony Reagins, and the role of Brandon Lyon will be played by Fernando Rodney.

Click.

by PhillyFriar on Dec 22, 2009 2:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thank god. Best news I’ve heard all day

"I tried to run him over but Eli had his big boy pads on and he kind of stopped me from getting in the end zone. The next time I’ll try to jump over his head.’’ - Asante Samuel

by foos05 on Dec 22, 2009 4:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Never underestimate the power of the lure of Ed Wade to a Proven Veteran Reliever. This rumor continues not to die.

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 22, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Marquis signed 2 yrs/$15MM with the Nats.

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 22, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just watched ESPN top of the hour 7pm EST, which did report the Rodney play, but in the second part of the report mentioned that the Phillies also have interest. So, like Dracula, don’t believe this one is done until the ink is dry.

by Wet Luzinski on Dec 22, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh. Watch Ruben jack up his already-inflated offer now to seal the deal.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

NO ONE outbids Ruben Amaro – NO ONE

by jemagee on Dec 22, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Right on cue…

Heard: Sorry — The Phillies’ interest is in Fernando Rodney, at two years and $12 million. Set-up guy, plus safety net for Brad Lidge.

From Buster Olney’s Twitter. And you know what else is awesome?

Keep in mind, the Phillies got $6 million in salary relief from the Jays during the Halladay negotiations for 2010 — which help with Rodney

Oh, that’s friggin’ marvelous. What price did we pay for that $6 million? Taylor? D’Arnaud? Maybe even Drabek? It’s enough to make me sick to my stomach.

by PhillyFriar on Dec 22, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s functionally a straight-up trade then, of Drabek for Rodney. Great idea Ruben! This should work out about as well for us as the Bagwell for Andersen trade did for the Red Sox.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m starting to suspect that the problem here is that Ruben Amaro just isn’t very intelligent.

by taco pal on Dec 22, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But he went to Stanford….

by jemagee on Dec 23, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m sure basket weaving is a fairly similar major at ever school; even Stanford…

"I tried to run him over but Eli had his big boy pads on and he kind of stopped me from getting in the end zone. The next time I’ll try to jump over his head.’’ - Asante Samuel

by foos05 on Dec 23, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

WHen applying to colleges my mother wouldn’t let my sister apply to reed college in oregon because she thought she’d take underwater basket weaving.

I have no idea if that was a class at reed college or just because my mother was/is BSC

by jemagee on Dec 23, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

From what I’ve heard, the only major at Reed College is weed.

by taco pal on Dec 23, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well that comp lit major from brandeis did her wonders until she decided to go to grad school :)

by jemagee on Dec 23, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yahoo Sports has a report we are more or less closing in on MacDougal… I wouldn’t be opposed either. I liked the way he closed the season with the Nationals and that’s not easy… 19 for 20 in save opportunity.

by Ant on Dec 23, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He kinda sucks though. Walks too many guys. If we don’t have to pay him real money, then I’m fine with it. But if we do, I’d rather just bring Chan Ho Park back.

by taco pal on Dec 23, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And… ESPN reported through their awesome sources that Rodney signed a 2 yr/$11 million deal with Angels.

by Ant on Dec 23, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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