Happy Halladays After All?
by dajafi on Dec 9, 2009 4:07 PM EST
81 comments
I don't mean to alarm anyone, but the Yankees' big trade yesterday for Curtis Granderson just might put the Phillies in position to pull off that trade for Roy Halladay that we've all been asking from Santa and Hanukkah Harry.
As Todd Zolecki points out, the Phils still have the pieces to make a deal with the Toronto Blue Jays--all the players that former Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi asked after last summer (Domonic Brown, Kyle Drabek, J.A. Happ, Anthony Gose) and others from a system that Baseball America recently ranked fourth in MLB. The Phils wouldn't pay that price then, with the prospect of having Halladay for two playoff runs, so they won't do so now. But they might not have to, either; if things break right, they could be the last feasible trade partner for Toronto, leaving GM Ruben Amaro Jr. enormous leverage.
That's where the Yankee trade comes in. To pry Granderson loose from Detroit, the Bronx Bombers parted with three players who weren't key contributors when they beat the Phillies in the World Series, but did represent a big part of the organization's young depth: almost-ready outfielder Austin Jackson, starting pitcher Ian Kennedy and lefty reliever Phil Coke. Granderson's 2010 price tag is chump change by Yankee standards--$5.5 million--and he's due a reasonable $18.25 million for the following two seasons with a $13 million club option or $2 million buyout for 2013. Still, that's an obligation of some significance for a team supposedly looking to trim payroll slightly, still waiting on negotiations with vets Johnny Damon and Andy Pettitte and rumored to be kicking the tires on top free agent starter John Lackey. Between their payroll obligations, a relative paucity of prospects after catcher Jesus Montero and young big-league pitchers Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain, and the likely in-division premium they'd have to pay in talent to make a deal with AL East foe Toronto, the Yankees suddenly look like a long shot to trade for Halladay.
And if they're out, the Red Sox might be, too.
This was the case two winters ago, when the Yanks and Sox were considered the leading contenders to trade for then-Twins ace Johan Santana. But it soon became clear that New York and Boston were more interested in keeping Santana from the other than paying the steep price in talent and dollars to bring him on board. Similarly, if the Yanks turn away from Halladay, Boston might do so as well: they already have a pretty darn good rotation front four in Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, Clay Buchholz and Daisuke Matsuzaka, and likely don't want to part with either of their top prospects Casey Kelly and Ryan Westmoreland plus Buchholz, then have to pay Halladay some $100 million to hang around for the next five years. Besides, baseball thinkers from Joe Sheehan to Bill Simmons argue that the team's needs and priorities lie elsewhere.
Those two AL East behemoths aren't the only other potential destinations: the two LA teams long have been rumored to be in Halladay too. But the Dodgers, wracked by their owner's divorce, pretty clearly can't afford him--evidently they felt they couldn't even risk Randy Wolf accepting arbitration. The Angels could, but it isn't clear they can match up with the Blue Jays on a trade and presumably their first goal will be to retain free-agent ace Lackey. If he signs elsewhere, we can worry about LA of Anaheim. It's also not clear that Halladay, who has a full no-trade clause he's reportedly said he'd waive for the Phils, Yankees and Red Sox, would allow a trade to a west coast team. (I'm guessing he would in the end, but that could be one more obstacle.)
That leaves the Phils, who can make a trade for Halladay and presumably could afford him (or Cliff Lee, but not both) long-term. The team's alleged $140 million budget for 2010 presents a problem, but that probably explains why they're supposedly shopping Joe Blanton (and FWIW, dealing Cupcakes to clear payroll space for Halladay is about a zillion times more palatable than doing so to afford Brandon Lyon). The biggest problem is that everything likely would have to happen at once: trading Blanton to free payroll and hopefully add a prospect or two, simultaneously with a deal for Halladay that might or might not include that prospect/s.
Baseball trades are tricky, and the degree of difficulty rises exponentially as additional teams get involved. But it's a reasonable guess that this the "groundwork" Amaro and his crew have been trying to lay in Indianapolis this week. And if it doesn't happen before the calendar flips, that's no reason to despair: Santana ultimately went to the Mets, for a package of prospects considerably less impressive than what the Phils sent to Cleveland for Lee, on February 2, 2008. By then, the Twins realized that their choices were to make that deal or watch the pitcher walk away after the '08 season for nothing more than picks in the next draft. This essentially is the scenario we're hoping for.
So it's something to keep in mind in the weeks and maybe months to come. And it's a lot more interesting than contemplating the uses of Ross Gload.
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My biggest question...
…is what the tipping point is for the Blue Jays to just decide to hang onto him and take the draft pick compensation (or convince him to renege on his insistence on being dealt before Opening Day).
Specifically with regards to the Phillies, if the scenario described above were to happen, the Phils obviously wouldn’t be ponying up a Drabek/Brown package to get Halladay. And Anthopoulos would pretty clearly walk away from a package that’s headlined by Anthony Gose. But what’s the middle ground there?
I still see it as a long shot, but it’s food for thought, anyway.
by PhillyFriar on Dec 9, 2009 4:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The part we don’t know is how much pressure he’s under to cut payroll for 2010. How much of a hit is it for them to pay Halladay $15 million next year? The more of a priority it is to cut payroll, the less the Phils (or any team) presumably would have to part with in terms of talent.
I think the problem from the Phillies’ perspective is that while it’s great to replace Happ or Blanton in the rotation with Halladay, if you have to lose both of them to get him the upside isn’t as clear. IOW, if you’re trading Blanton to free payroll and trading Happ because the Jays want him in the package, you’re replacing the two of them with Kendrick or Moyer. I’m not at all positive that Lee/Hamels/Halladay/Kendrick/Moyer is so much better than Lee/Hamels/Blanton/Happ/Kendrick-or-Moyer to justify the higher cost.
So that probably means no Happ in a Halladay trade. And I doubt the Jays would take Blanton (he makes some sense for them as an innings sponge and FA to be after ‘10, but the cost is too high if that’s a motivation). Without him, maybe you have to part with Drabek, which is obviously not ideal, or otherwise put in better prospects.
by dajafi on Dec 9, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Theorhetically
Say Blanton is traded for a young prospect in AAA or with some MLB service time. Not an elite Prospect, but an average or above average one. Then assume the Phillies are able to package that prospect with Drabek and Gose for Halladay.
Would you give up, essentially, Blanton, Gose and Drabek (with maybe Kendrick or Bastardo or similar thrown in to fill the MLB hole for the Jays, if needed) for Halladay?
by Cormican on Dec 9, 2009 4:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Drabeks off the table, period. If we wouldnt trade him last year for 2 postseasons, theres no way were trading him for only 1 postseason.
by philiafan14364 on Dec 9, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then replace Drabek with Brown or Taylor (I’d rather trade the pitcher, personally. That’s just my bias against pitching prospects though.)
by Cormican on Dec 9, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think you’re underestimating the level of risk involved with pitching prospects, but I do think you’re underestimating the immense value of a pitching prospect that pays off. TINSTAAPP, as true it as it might be, is not really a sound guide to making personnel decisions.
by taco pal on Dec 9, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I understand the immense value of ones paying off, and I wouldn’t trade one just for the sake of trading one, but if I can trade one to get one of, maybe, the 10 best pitchers in the game, I’d pull the trigger. I wouldn’t trade him for just anyone, but Halladay isn’t just anyone. Even for a one year rental.
by Cormican on Dec 9, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had been pretty much neutral to negative on the whole Halladay store. However dajafi, you peaked my curiosity. Nicely written.
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 9, 2009 4:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree with this
I had been ignoring it mostly or thinking negatively about it, but after Granderson trade, I got a little more positive about it and after reading this, I’m intrigued at least. Not sold by any means, but intrigued.
Nice Work
"It was almost like if Harry didn't call it, it wasn't real." - Jayson Stark
SB Nation
by Chris Haines on Dec 9, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The very most Id be willing to give up for Halladay at this point would be Happ, Gose and Bastardo. As is, I think this team can win the World Series, so I see no reason to really tinker with it.
I know Im getting waaaaaay ahead of myself, but the Yankees trade also helped us in another way. Granderson can only hit righties. So if we meet again in the WS, he will basically be useless to them (save for 1 game). Meanwhile, his arival in NY basically means Damon and Matsui are goners, and they are two guys that killed us. Just something to think about.
by philiafan14364 on Dec 9, 2009 5:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
David Murphy says...
In my informed opinion, here is what would have to happen for the Phillies to make a play for Halladay: First, teams like Boston and New York would have to drop out of consideration, thereby lowering the demand for the Blue Jays’ ace.. Second, the Phillies would have to non-tender or trade away righthander Joe Blanton, who could make more than $7 million in arbitration. Halladay is due $15 million, and Amaro said back at the GM meetings that he did not think such a salary would fit into the Phillies’ cost structure. Third, Toronto would have to be willing to accept substantially less than it was asking for at the trade deadline last season. While there is certainly an argument that the Phillies should go for broke now, you have to remember that Amaro hopes to keep his job for longer than three or four years. And while bankrupting the farm system to land Halladay might give the Phillies a great shot at winning a second World Series in three years, it doesn’t guarantee them that World Series. And with just two players signed through the 2012 season, the Phillies are likely going to need some of their current prospects to step up once guys like Jayson Werth and Ryan Howard reach free agency.
In general, the coverage of the Phils has been much better the last few years with the likes of Zolecki, Murphy and Andy Martino coming to the fore. Murphy in particular has had some nice pieces from Indy this week, notwithstanding his evident unhappiness at being there…
by dajafi on Dec 9, 2009 5:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i think if we could get him for blanton, i would do it and a low level prospect
brown, taylor, drabek are untouchable
eff you we winning anyway
by eagleswin on Dec 9, 2009 6:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That would only happen if Amaro had a Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas weekend with the new Jays GM and they made the trade while flipped out on Absintyth and LSD.
by Cormican on Dec 9, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“The Jays’ GM will want the first word. Give it to him.”
by Wet Luzinski on Dec 9, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I ask a question? How is it in this economy, one where players were supposedly going to get smaller/shorter contracts, that Randy Freaking Wolf is gets a 3 yr/$30MM deal?
by doubleh on Dec 9, 2009 6:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Especially from the team in the smallest market in all of baseball.
by taco pal on Dec 9, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, Randy’s a nice pitcher, when he’s healthy, but 3 years/$30MM??? How much is Lackey going to get when Wolf’s getting $10/per?
by doubleh on Dec 9, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he’s getting that, what is Cliff Lee going to command? (gulp)
by Boundforbeach on Dec 9, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This one’s amazing. I like Wolf and all, but this has to be his last round up salary-wise.
He will now pitch in HOU, CIN, CHC, PIT—mostly smallish parks in colder weather. Given his post-surgical status, I’ll be amazed if he makes it through his third year.
Oh, and what do you think Brett Myers will command?
by Wet Luzinski on Dec 9, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Myers has much more upside than Wolf, but he’s also more of a risk/enigma. If Wolf is healthy—big if—he’s pretty consistent. And doesn’t beat his wife as far as we know. I say 1 yr/$8MM.
by doubleh on Dec 9, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Martino, you're a goddamned genius! GENIUS!
Keep up those Halladay stories! I want those Phillies fans thinking about Halladay out of every orifice!
by Wet Luzinski on Dec 9, 2009 10:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ha. This one’s got a touch of the Seinfeld version of George Steinbrenner too.
by taco pal on Dec 10, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I credit dajafi with sparking something here.
Because Ken Rosenthal, among others, is picking up on the idea that the Phils are not only back in the mix for Halladay, but are “frontrunners” along with the Angels. He claims Amaro is prepared to offer a package including Happ and one of Taylor/Brown.
Then, Mark Feinsand of the illustrious New York Daily News, weighs in with a source saying, “Don’t rule out them including Cole Hamels” in a deal for Halladay. Twenty bucks says his source was a desperate, sobbing Omar Minaya.
by PhillyFriar on Dec 10, 2009 8:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Here we go — again. I really hope these rumors are wrong. I don’t want to give up those guys for a one year rental. And we can’t afford him and Lee long term, right? I just don’t understand this at all. Giving up our top prospects to go all in for just one year. And if this trade goes thru, how are we all going to feel next year at this time when we lose Hallady and possibly Lee from our rotation. Now that would be depressing.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 10, 2009 8:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s widely assumed that any deal for Halladay would include a window in which to negotiate a contract extension.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Dec 10, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stark
Also, Jayson Stark says Roy luvs him some Philadelphia. At least according to these reports, Halladay seems more amenable to sticking around Philly long-term than Lee does…
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Dec 10, 2009 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
It’s nice to read something like that coming from the best pitcher in baseball. It seems almost inconceivable to me that we are now a destination.
by doubleh on Dec 10, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not a pitcher
But remember when they had to beg, plead, and horrendously overpay Jim Thome to come here?
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Dec 10, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK to Include Taylor in a Deal, but Not Drabek nor Brown.
The professional talent evaluators’ consensus that I’m seeing is that, despite his impressive stats the last couple of years, Taylor will only be an above average outfielder. The same evaluators think Brown will be a 5-tool star. Add to that the fact that, although he is just about ready for the big club, Taylor is blocked by the Phils’ current outfielders and won’t play much for the big team in 2010 barring injury. Taylor will have more value to another team in 2010 than he will to the Phillies. Third, Jayson Werth is a guy who overcame a potentially career-threatening injury to fulfill the potential Pat Gillick saw when Werth was a first-round draft pick. Werth is a stud who should be given a significant extension. The Phils corner outfielders in 2011 or 2012 should be Werth and Brown. Taylor and Happ (or maybe somebody from the Blanton trade if it happens) plus one or two lesser prospects would be as high as I would go for Halladay (and only if Doc accepts a three-year extension).
by Derekcarstairs on Dec 10, 2009 9:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
bahaha
I love the leaps and liberties with logic here…
OMG TRADE IMMINENT!!!!!
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Dec 10, 2009 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The only postive from this trade is Halladay can’t strike his own teammates out. In reality we’re looking at probably 5 to 7 less strikeouts next year overall if they don’t face him while he’s still on the Blue Jays in June.
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 10, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, assuming the Happ and Taylor/Brown trade and Cupcakes goes
Who are the starting 5 next year?
Lee
Halladay
Hamels
Kendrick
Moyer
I suppose if we get a young Happ like pitcher in exchange for Blanton you could substitute that guy in for Kendrick or Grandpa. I love the top 3, but I’m lukewarm, at best, on 4 and 5. I’ll be praying for a big breakout season from Bastardo in the 4 or 5 slot if it comes down to that.
by Cormican on Dec 10, 2009 10:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don’t see Moyer pitching again….
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 10, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pedro?
He wants to come back, right? I guess it all depends what another team is willing to offer him. I’d be fine with him as the 4/5 starter with Kendrick.
by zfg on Dec 10, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought of Pedro, but saw 2 problems
1. I don’t think he’s a full season guy anymore. I think he’d be more effective if used like last year as a midseason replacement.
2. After shelling out close to 16M for Halladay, signing another starter becomes less likely. Pedro’s clearly not going to get a huge contract. I suppose if he’ll take another 1-2M contract it could work..
by Cormican on Dec 10, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that it would completely depend on how much he would be getting paid, and I think that really depends on what other teams see in him. As for his full-seasonworthienesss (I made that word up, can you tell?), I think he might do a bit better if he had the offseason and training camp under his belt. Plus, if they think Drabek’s going to be ready to move up late in the season, he could replace Pedro.
by zfg on Dec 10, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess we’ll see what happens in the Spring
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Dec 10, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am so sick of hearing Halladay’s name. It’s like a rash that won’t go away. Make it stop, please.
by taco pal on Dec 10, 2009 10:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
on WIP
Todd Zolecki just reported the Phillies are a “frontrunner,” pegs the likelihood of a deal around 30-35%, says the Phillies would have to cut some salary and mentioned Blanton specifically.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Dec 10, 2009 1:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’m finding this to be really ominous. Halladay’s great and all, but I can’t imagine a workable trade that would be worth the prospects we’d have to give up. This is the kind of move the Flyers would make, and I don’t mean that as a compliment.
by taco pal on Dec 10, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like a late career Paul Coffey or Tony Amonte
by Cormican on Dec 10, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, precisely. Always with the big-named quick fixes. It’s funny – the way the Flyers run their organization is almost exactly in line with the philosophy advocated by the people who spout the party line on WIP like, say, Rhea Hughes. And yet, for the past ten years, the Flyers been much less successful than either the Phillies or the Eagles, two teams that have received much more criticism (especially the Eagles) over that timespan from that same crowd. You’d think the dissonance there might prompt a little soul-searching, but apparently not.
by taco pal on Dec 10, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Come now, taco. Soul searching? Among the masses of ill-informed Philly fans? If that happens, I’ll hop on board this whole “world is ending in 2012” bandwagon.
by PhillyFriar on Dec 10, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
flip-flopping (?)
The more I think about this, the less sure I am that I’d do it if the deal is Happ/Brown for Halladay (which is the rumor), plus a salary-dump trade of Blanton.
Lee/Halladay/Hamels is a potentially devastating front three, but it means that Moyer and Kendrick are much more important—and you’re not getting Pedro to replace Blanton, because the Phils won’t be able to afford him.
It’s a move that helps you in the playoffs, but might well make it less likely that you get there. The Braves will be better in 2010, probably good enough to give the Phils a race. The Mets might even bounce back if they can stay healthy and add a piece. I don’t like the idea of so much riding on Kendrick and Moyer.
by dajafi on Dec 10, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good point. And given an equal choice between improving our regular season odds and improving our postseason odds, I’d rather take the regular season 100 times out of 100.
by taco pal on Dec 10, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d agree, overall, and I’m really not big on losing Brown. But just to play Devil’s Advocate, were Ruben to trade Happ, would he be trading at his peak value? I’m not smart enough with peripherals to tell, but does it seem like Happ’s going to remain a wunderkind or regress? If it’s the latter, the trade might be canny enough.
by Trev223 on Dec 10, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Happ can repeat a sub-3.00 ERA, but even his luck-neutral stats were still pretty decent last year. I believe his FIP was somewhere in the 4.20 neighborhood, which is alright. I also think he’s capable of improving, so my best guess is, he’ll be somewhere in the upper 3’s this year.
I don’t know how much his value will really be inflated. First of all, Alex Anthopoulos has a pretty good background in the game and is presumably not an idiot. So I assume he knows how to look up Happ’s FIP. Second, since Happ only has a year of service time, even if he posts an ERA in the high-3’s going forward, he’s still much more valuable than a typical pitcher in the high-3’s. My guess is that all of those things will cancel each other out, and that Happ’s present trade value is roughly equivalent to his real value.
by taco pal on Dec 10, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough; thanks taco pal. I guess with the Ed Wade’s of the world making noise, it’s easy to forget that FIP and K/BB ratio don’t really elude GM’s. I guess I’ll stay ambivalent, despite my devil’s advocacy.
by Trev223 on Dec 10, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The complete and utter lack of a #4 and a #5 starter, with no prospect for replacing them, has to be a roadblock to the Phillies doing this. Happ certainly isn’t the best player in the potential deal, but given the construction of the current team, he may very well be the most important. If the Phils were to do this, I’d honestly rather they give up more talent — say, Taylor, Gose, and May — than surrender a starter that they’d so desperately need.
And to be really honest, I can’t understand Toronto’s alleged fascination with Happ. They have a gaggle of young, talented arms, including three young MLB-ready lefties that project anywhere from “as good as Happ” to “far better than Happ” in Ricky Romero, Brett Cecil, and Marc Rzepczynski. (And yes, I double checked to make sure I spelled that right).
by PhillyFriar on Dec 10, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell yes. A devastating 1, 2, 3 and then we’re toast. Awesome for the postseason, but to win the pennant— not so much. This assume cookie is a goner, leaving us with Moyer, Kendrick, Bastardo or a pickup (Smoltz? Pedro? or give Park another shot) picking up the slack. And I assume from all the various threads some time ago that Drabek will not be ready come April. And we’re giving up Happ and prospects and increasing our payroll for this? No thanks.
by Boundforbeach on Dec 10, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Drabek certainly won’t be ready in April.
The thing is, I wouldn’t mind the whole “include Happ in the deal, then salary dump Cupcakes” dynamic if the Phils had a couple of million left over after that exchange to go get a reasonable back-end starter on the market. But since any Halladay deal would surely max out the budget, that wouldn’t seem to be an option.
by PhillyFriar on Dec 10, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Something I keep thinking is lost in all of this
Blanton isn’t rumored to be going to Toronto. So, in theory, the Phillies would be getting something back from another team for Blanton that likely wouldn’t be chump change (he’s still a MOR starter, after all). What’s the possibility they get someone back for Blanton who could be a relatively cost cotrolled 4/5 option.
(I know we’re talking about someone unlikely to be better than Kendrick at this point, but if you figure there’s only a one in two shot Kendrick doesn’t bust then having two of him around is only going to improve the odds).
In other words, what can we expect in return for Blanton?
by Aphilfan on Dec 10, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, Zolecki is saying 75% chance that it happens today? Is this true or just chatter? I don’t buy it.
by FuquaManuel on Dec 10, 2009 1:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It’s been clarified…don’t trust twitter.
by FuquaManuel on Dec 10, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard 30-35% it happens, period.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Dec 10, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, this is what I’m hearing now as well.
by FuquaManuel on Dec 10, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve heard about 39.2% but that if no teams make any deals this morning, it’ll go up to about 49.2%. If nothing by 6:12 tonight, we’re back down to 28.3%.
by David S. Cohen on Dec 11, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
/Joe Morgan
Stats can tell you a lot about a trade, but I like to watch the trade happen. Does the trade hustle? Does it have grit? Sometimes you have to judge a trade by how hard it plays and how big its heart is.
/Joe Morgan
by Trev223 on Dec 11, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In other news…..Astros did some moves today… traded for Lindstrom, signed Lyon to a 3 year 15 million deal and Pedro Feliz to a one year deal.
by Ant on Dec 10, 2009 2:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
They gave Pedro 4.5 million. I don’t think he’s worth it.
I can see the Lindstrom trade maybe working out for them, but the Lyon contract is a little nuts.
by taco pal on Dec 10, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Phils Won't Use Kendrick and Moyer as Both Their 4th and 5th Starters.
I think the worst-case scenario is that Kendrick, Moyer or similar talents get 30 starts combined. Halladay, Lee and Hamels would get 100 or so starts combined. The remaining starts would probably go to guys like Drabek (beginning in July), Pedro (beginning in May or June), or an unknown decent Number Four. Ruben’s a smart guy. I don’t see his giving Charley two duds at the back of the rotation for an extended period. If they have to, the Phils will exceed their $140 million budget to accommodate Halladay. That said, I am betting against their getting Doc.
by Derekcarstairs on Dec 11, 2009 12:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
As Pat Gillick Proved, a Good GM's Job Is Never Done.
If we do get Halladay, Ruben may have to tinker with the back end of the rotation and the bullpen a few times.
by Derekcarstairs on Dec 11, 2009 12:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"an unknown decent Number Four"?
Sorry, but that reminds me of nothing so much as:
Phase 1 – Collect Underpants
Phase 2 – ?
Phase 3 – Profit
by taco pal on Dec 11, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Phils Can Save Some Bucks by Going with Some Rookies in the 'Pen.
Mathieson, Bastardo and/or Escalona can fill a couple of bullpen slots.
by Derekcarstairs on Dec 11, 2009 12:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I personally would like to see Mathieson get his second chance in the majors. The guy is a great story. He throws really hard, and honestly, I think he could one day take the closers role.
by Phils 2036 World CH on Dec 11, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to imagine he’ll get a shot in camp. The accounts that I’ve heard his velocity has pretty much come back (amazing after 2 TJ’s), but control was a factor. That could just be a matter of time, though.
by Aphilfan on Dec 11, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If at all possible, I’d try to hold off on having Mathieson make the Opening Day roster. He’ll certainly help the bullpen this year, but I’d start him in Lehigh Valley and have him focus on taking it a step at a time. First step: seeing how he responds to pitching on back-to-back days.
by PhillyFriar on Dec 11, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Putz signed with the White Sox today
Another relief pitcher off our board…
by Ant on Dec 11, 2009 2:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
hm.
do love Lee, but makes sense…if we’re just going to lose him, may as well try to tie Halladay down instead.
by lpfist on Dec 13, 2009 6:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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