Are you stupid or a cheat? Please stop letting the fans down!
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 15, 2009 6:10 PM EDT
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PrintI have a hard time with this ignorant "I didn't know it was banned" defense. With all the rules saying what the players can and can’t take, it seems that someone, be it the doctors or players, should be smart enough to figure this out and look at the list to see if a substance is ok to take. If they had a question as to whether or not they should take something, they should get it in writing from their higher-ups to verify if it is ok to take or not. If not, don't take it. If ok, get it in writing, guys. Seems pretty simple to me. If it was my job and was told about a substance that was banned, or I had questions about it but was still unclear, and then I took it anyway putting my job in jeopardy, that would make me an idiot for taking it, or a cheater. Same with these guys.
These players that do this are either really stupid for taking things they are not supposed to be taking and putting their careers and names on the line because they "didn't know", or were trying to cheat. Which is worse? Being really stupid or a cheat? If I was paid the amount of money some of these guys get paid, I would definitely know what I could and could not take, especially if it meant losing my money and reputation. Some of these guys appear to be either really dumb and so do their doctors for putting them in that position, or they are cheaters. We may never know which. This is disheartening as my son and I are huge baseball fans. (Go Phillies!) My son and I look up to these guys. When one is caught with the banned substance, well, that makes the player look like an idiot or a cheater and makes us feel stupid for looking up to someone like that.
It is sad because some great players’ names will forever be tainted. We will never know if they were great players, or if steroids, supplements, or hormones made them great. Could they be just as great if they never took any of this stuff? Who knows. Are they they are just cheaters who got caught? Again, who knows. Either way, it is sad and such a let down. Guys, please, knock it off. I would like to keep you on your pedastal and think you are smarter and better than that. Please stop letting your fans down. Just stop it.
2009 Cindy Breninger
www.adayinthelifeofcindy.blogspot.com
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I have a hard time with people over reacting so much about the steroid use in baseball.
It isn’t new
and baseball isn’t holy
Seriously, in the NFL a guy gets caught he’s suspended for 1/4 of a season and no one says much more about.
Now we have cal ’i’m a selfish bastard’ ripken sounding off (hey cal – how many greenies got you through your streak)
drugs are drugs – cheating is cheating – no one who took one greenie to stay up for a game should open their mouths and the fans really need to get the frack over it already.
People cheat to succeed – i never understand the belief that athletes are supposed to be ‘better’ people than everyone else – the fact that most of them are indulged from a very early point in their life makes it less likely they are better people…i guess it’s the money thing – but I’d really like people to stop talking about this already – baseball isn’t any more special than any more sport and congress has bigger problems
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 15, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions
Personally I like steroids. They make the home runs go farther and they make the pitchers throw harder.
For everyone who does not play baseball, the sport is entertainment. Hallowed records, respect for the game, and rules be damned. I want the sport to be as entertaining as possible. If that means letting the players make the decision to possibly harm their bodies, then so be it. They get paid good money for it — and it is their decision. Thus, I want the game to be as entertaining as possible. If that means players juicing, let them juice.
On a more serious note, I am tired of people making this about the players. The amount of hypocrisy is ridiculous. The owners and Selig turn a blind eye to or even openly promoted the use of PEDs in the 90s and made a fortune off of it and now are turning around and making this about a bunch of players who are “cheating” and disgracing the game. “Cheating” is a very very nebulous concept anyways. Why is it that certain things that enhance your performance (steroids) are stigmatized while other developments (technology like lighter, more powerful bats for instance) are not even brought up? Both have served to enhance the performance of players.
I disagree
I don’t watch for home runs. I watch pro sports to see athletes do things I can’t do because they’ve trained their whole lives to do so.
To me, there is no appeal to watching a bunch of guys who took a illegal shortcuts (not just banned, literally illegal drugs) whack balls out of the park.
Oh – I get it – guys who did steroids wouldn’t be good baseball players if they didn’t take steroids right? I mean it’s proven that steroids not only build muscle but they increase hand eye coordination and twitch muscles and make people run faster and more physically fit just for the fact of taking steroids.
And yet again – no one complains about the approve of use of amphetamines in baseball – someone tell cal ripken to shut up – about everything – PLEASE a me first guy all about his own personal records – how come no one ever bashed him like they bash favre…i’m tired of hearing cal ripken
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 16, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and by the way, I watch to see athletes do things I can’t do…I don’t give two shits how they got to the point to be able to do things I can’t do. Just like my concern for HOW Joyce or Faulkner or Hemingway came to be better writers than I am is far less significant to me than the fact that they produced Ulysses, or The Sound and the Fury, or For Whom the Bell Tolls respectively…however they were able to do so.
Just curious
Do you believe that the Eagles are all (or even mostly) clean?
I’m an innocent until proven guilty guy. We can certainly never say for sure whether every member of a team is clean, but until they fail a test or admit to cheating… it’s not fair to cast suspicion on them.
If your implication is that for some reason I’d treat cheating on my favorite football team any different than on my favorite baseball team… then you’d be wrong.
Using illegal drugs isn’t ok ever.
Until they become legal. These things tend to change over time according to what the rich people in Washington deem acceptable.
Ok, but obviously that would be a different situation. It speaks as much to character as anything.
That fact remains that right now these guys are breaking the law of the land and violating the rules of the game. Regardless of how much the roids help or hurt or whatever…. they’re knowingly breaking the law and breaking the rules. They know the consequences and choose to do it anyway because they think it will make their next contract fatter. They cheat to make more money. The motivation and thought process of these guys is no different to me than Bernie Madoff’s.
I understand the temptation… If $20 mil a year was staring me in the face, I certainly wonder whether I’d compromise my ethics or break the law…. but I hope I wouldn’t. It does disappoint me to see guys with real natural talent make the decision to comprise themselves.
Sure, no doubt about that. I would never say that their crime is as bad as Madoff.
But the motivation is the same. Breaking the law, cheating the system to benefit your bank account. The fact that Manny Ramirez didn’t clean out anyone else’s bank account(other than the Dodger’s owner I guess) doesn’t make his crime “ok.” It’s certainly no where near as harmful as Madoff however.
Also
One of the hang ups with me is that I obviously don’t think steroids should be illegal, so the argument that “cheating is cheating” doesn’t really resonate with me. In fact, because I think it is bullshit that taking steroids is illegal, I obviously don’t care that players do it. Different codes of morality I guess…
Some people don’t think that cocaine or heroin should be illegal, but they are. If a player showed up to play and was all drugged up, he should also get in trouble. If you are arguing that steroids are ok, but even though they are breaking the rules but you think that breaking the rules is ok when you disagree with the rule, I have trouble following that argument. What should happen if a player showed up to a game on meth and was freaking out? Or drunk? Those things are also against the rules. What about people who think meth and being drunk on the field should be ok? So, if they break those rules, what do you think should happen? I am just curious as I am having trouble following your “it’s ok with me since I don’t agree with the rule so it is ok to break it” logic. To me, cheating is cheating…
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 23, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, I don’t totally disagree with you. If people want to choose to put drugs in their body, as far I’m concerned that’s their problem. I understand that there are limits for reasons, but I do understand where you’re coming from…
Like I said though, they are illegal. They are banned. These players are knowingly breaking the rules to get an advantage, perceived or otherwise.
If these guys really do believe steroids are fine and should be legal, why sneak around? Why not come out say they should be legal? They don’t do that. They hide, they lie, they sneak around because they have a guilty conscience and they know what they’re doing is wrong.
They hide and lie partly because fans like you and Cindy get so incensed (but mainly because they are scared as shit of what Congress can do to them) at the thought that someone might do something that is not condoned by our God-given laws to make a shit-load of money at the expense of no one but themselves.
Jason, I agree completely. They are knowingly breaking the rules, and whether people agree or disagree with the rules, they are knowingly breaking them. If my boss told blue hair was was not allowed and was against the rules of my job and then I knowingly went and dyed my hair blue, I should be fired for breaking the rules. It is that simple. Most people who receive a paycheck know that what the boss says goes and to go against the rules means they are no longer employed. That is why I have a problem with this. I don’t know what steroids do to the body, good or bad and I am not qualified to discuss that part of it, but I do know that they have been banned and so if they take them, they are breaking the rules.
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 23, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And yet doctors can write prescriptions for a variety of steroids, including those ‘perfomrance enhancing ones’
Notice that no one is going to prison – illegal drugs – against the law – you think many more people would be going to prison – even barry bonds isn’t up for drug use now is he?
Steroids are legal when prescribed by a doctor…i believe manny ramirez stuff ws prescribed by a doctor – so what does legality have to do with your over the top outrage (or anyone elses)
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 23, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite part of it is the amount of lies being told regarding the impact of steroids (and the health effects) there’s very little reprooducable medical proof about the long term negative side effects of steroids (no, stop using lyle alzedo please, it’s just not true or proven)
There’s no quantifiable evidence that steroids actually helps either is there? How do steroids help with hand eye coordination, or twitch muscles – maybe they help with injury recover or ‘rest time’ but do they help a guy throw faster or hit harder (i’m serious – i don’t know – whether FM was kidding or not)
And isn’t a cortisol shot a steroid?
The saddest part of this whole thing is the explosion of baseball plyers suddenly diagnosed with ADHD – damn thing is over diagnosed anyway in this day and age hurts those of us who actually have had it for a while now before it was even reocgnized as a problem
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 15, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions
Hi Jemagee,
If there’s no quantifiable evidence that steroids actually help, why do they take them? My point was that if something is banned, then taking it is against the rules, which would be cheating. But, if they don’t help, then why would they take them? That doesn’t make sense.
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 15, 2009 7:20 PM EDT reply actions
Dear lord you just described to ‘alternative supplement’ market in a nut shell….people take crap they think will help in so many ways but there’s no supportable proof.
There’s a difference between anecdotal evidence and actual evidence
There’s also a difference between a circular argument and one that’s not.
Might I suggest caring less about what athletes do and don’t do an caring about things that matter.
Sports are entertainment – they are not life and death – do you get up set when your favorite actor gets arrested for drugs or has an affair or is revealed as a scientologist.
Again, greenies, amphetamines, against the law, used for decades with MLB approval
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 16, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention rules are easy to get around – see all the baseball players who suddenly have ADHD and need ‘medication’ that happens to also serve as a stimulant
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 16, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t, and don’t think I ever will, understand the complex layers of indignation that surround the steroid issue.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
Baseball is religion to too many people and people get stupid about religion in general
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 16, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Who are the players cheating, btw? The fans? Doesn’t steroids make them better? Each other? Most of them don’t even care. Integrity of the game? WTF is that anyway?
Fact is, if you draw an arbitrary line in the sand, every single player will push up against that line and some will try to inch over it. It’s a fact of nature. Telling people not to do this is telling them not to be human. Isn’t that what the entire game is about?
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
what about the children?
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 16, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, you guys are a tough crowd! hehe Ok, if they were not banned, then the guys would not be breaking the rules. When they break the rules to be better than other players who are being honest and not breaking the rules, then they are cheating, and that’s what I have a problem with. Will the steroids hurt them? Probably. But, I am not their mother so that is not my concern. Would I have a cow if my own son put that stuff in his body? Yes. But, back to this…if they took the ban away and they guys did this stuff, I wouldn’t care. But, the ban is there so they are purposely breaking the rules and cheating. Again, that is where I have a problem. My son does look up to these guys, just as a lot of other kids do, and when they cheat, well, he sees someone he thought was cool having to cheat to get better than someone else who is better without cheating. I know, about as clear as mud….
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 16, 2009 8:11 PM EDT reply actions
The line is arbitrary, that is one of the biggest issues. However, if your son was putting that stuff in his body and bringing home 7.5 mil a year for the next 4 years, you’d have a farm full of cows, and horses and whatever else you’d want.
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
Here’s the deal. Whether or not you think steroids are ok or are terrible, that is not what I am asking. As it stands, there is a rule that says players cannot take certain things If a player takes these things knowing that the people in charge said the players cannot take them, if the player still takes them knowing this, then is he stupid for thinking he won’t get caught or a cheat for knowingly taking something that is against the rules? Again, if you are for or against steroids, that is not the point. The point is, the player who takes it is cheating and breaking the rules on purpose, and he is stupid for thinking he won’t get caught. Huh, guess I just answered my own question. ;)
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 18, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions
But..
Why do you care? Are they cheating you? It seems like a bout of Holier Than Thouness to me. If he is cheating and on your team, does it bother you? Cause he is trying to make your team win. If it does bother you, then why? There are likely cheaters on the other side. Does that fact that you don’t know if there are make it less of an issue?
I make the analogy to Brett Myers. Brett Myers was the exact same man before and after we found out he “presumably” hit his wife. Did your like for him change based on that knowledge? If so, then why? All that changed was what you knew, not that he did it. This is not saying you should or shouldn’t like Myers. It’s saying that your personal affection for some player is based on their ability on the field unless you find ou they did something off-putting. However, be blind to their behavior is fine. What you don’t know won’t hurt you (right?).
I think we should take our personal feeling about the individual players out of all of this. Most likely, they will all disappoint us because they are all humans. Expecting good play is fine because we know what their level of play has been over their history. Expecting good behavior is silly since none of us really know anything about any of these guys. I don’t want it to seem I am defending Brett. More making a point that you blindly love Chase (or whomever) despite his hidden child pornography ring that he runs (or kittn burger factory or his line of flower stomping shoes).
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
Barry Bonds has never tested positive for steroids – there’s no good test for HGH and there are these things called masking agents…i bet you the system gets beat constantly.
I’m not sure why it bothers you so or you feel the need to rant and rave about it.
Are people stupid? Yes
Do they cheat to try to make a lot of money? Yes
Is what Manny Ramirez did comparable to the list of cheaters who steal from people on a daily basis? Not even close
People care too much about sports in general – I’m not sure why – maybe it’s a self esteem issue – maybe it’s an ego thing
BTW – if a player ‘doctors’ the ball or puts a foreign substance on the ball – it’s cheating – and usually once a season someone gets busted for it – and maybe serves a five game (one start) suspension – it’s cheating – it’s against the rules -a nd it’s hella easy to do and probably done a lot more often…where’s the outrage.
People care so much about this because tv and congress told them to care so much about this – but really – who gives a flying frack what people do to their own bodies to play a game even off the steroids they’re so much better at than the rest of us it wouldn’t matter in terms of them making the pros versus us.
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 18, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
One note
Steroids may make you residually stronger over the long run, but their primary use is actually to aid muscle recovery from wear and tear, which is a big boost over a long, tiring season, especially one as long and non-stop as MLB’s.
And amphetamines help you be more alert when you’re tired – and they’re illegal – and they were in baseball with MLB’s at least tacit approval for much longer than steroids – and there was no outrage.
The phony outrage was created by a congress and red on by a jackal like media to distract the American public from the real problems and things that are really wrong in this country. It’s a time honored tradition, and Americans keep falling for it.
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 19, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
bread and circuses
“THEY’RE the villains, cheaters cheaters cheaters! They ruined the gaaaaame!!”
“Oh, you want to torture the living shit out of people? OK BY US!”
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on May 19, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget about the children.
The thing that baffles me the most is people who take this personally, like they themselves have been betrayed…i don’t get that.
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 19, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
As it stands right now, steroids are banned which means taking them is cheating. To take them to get an edge over the guys who are following the rules and NOT CHEATING, well, that makes them cheaters. I have a problem with cheaters.
I am not heartbroken by this, and I don’t take it personally, but I don’t look up to anyone who is a cheater. I love baseball. I love watching it, reading about, and well, as a female, some of the players are mighty nice to look at. ;) My 10 year old son loves baseball too, and when he hears about another player who knew what the rules were yet chose to break them, he thinks that player is lame and a cheater. My son can’t break the rules in school or he gets in trouble. Even he gets it: Break the rules and that is called cheating. If they can’t hit the ball without the steroids, maybe they should get another job and let the guys who can hit it without the steroids play the game. You know, the players who aren’t cheaters?
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 20, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions
Not for nothing but you seem to take this cheating thing AWFULLY personally
Is it what the smarty pants call transferrance?
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 20, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You have got to be kidding me. This is getting kind of lame. I have integrity and am honest and want my kids to be proud of me for those qualities. I look up to people who possess those qualities. I don’t look up to anyone who cheats or thinks cheating is ok and I am glad my son doesn’t either.
He can’t cheat on a test or he gets in trouble. If you broke the rules and ran a red light or stole something, there would be consequences. If most people showed up at their jobs drugged up, they would be fired. Why are you ok with these guys breaking the rules and why should we should just ignore it? These guys are knowingly breaking the rules and cheating, yet you seem to think it is ok to turn a blind eye. They are paid millions of dollars, yet they can’t follow the rules. They are cheaters. Let the guys who aren’t cheating play and get the others out of there. Why are you ok with them cheating???
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 20, 2009 10:38 PM EDT reply actions
Because their job is to entertain us. And if it takes them breaking a bullshit rule to entertain us, then so be it.
What constitutes “cheating” in baseball (or anything for that matter) is quite nebulous — at least more nebulous than you make it out to be.
Sure, by MLB’s inconsistent standards RIGHT NOW, taking PED’s is considered cheating. But that doesn’t mean it always has been nor always will be the case. It doesn’t mean we have to accept the current standards of what “cheating” is at this very moment. And it doesn’t mean we have to accept the rank hypocrisy that underlies the current vilification of players (who were only taking cues from owners and MLB) by the owners, MLB, and the fans.
by FuquaManuel on May 20, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Not using illegal drugs to gain a competitive advantage is a “bullshit rule?”
And since we’re being real here… They are absolutely NOT breaking said rule for the purpose of “entertaining” us. They are breaking the rule for money’s sake. There is no way on earth A-Rod or Barry Bonds decided to use steroids simply because of a desire to entertain the masses.
Right, I don’t see how this disagrees with what I was saying. The players make more money, ultimately, because they are more entertaining or skilled. I never said the players do it to be more entertaining, that would be stupid. I said that by doing it the players become more entertaining. Who gives a fuck what reasons individual players concoct in their own minds for doing this stuff, really? It’s not relevant.
Sure it is. It’s very relevant to me. It speaks directly to their character and what kind of people they are.
If that stuff isn’t important to you, fine. That’s your choice as a fan. For me, that does matter. I wouldn’t want to support and wear the jersey of a guy and who doesn’t have enough self confidence or character to not cheat.
And I’ll be honest. It doesn’t make them more entertaining. It makes them less so. Knowing a player cheated compromises my enjoyment of watching him play.
But if you don’t believe it should be considered cheating, then it isn’t relevant to you…that is where we reach an impasse.
And I don’t think that the fact that they take something to make themselves better baseball players is a reflection of their character so much as it is a reflection of the economic and political realities of the business. And I don’t think it is fair to vilify players for something that was more the fault of ownership and the league than anything else.
No. That’s passing the buck. In the end it is a personal choice.
Believe me, I don’t give the owners or league a pass in anyway… But their hypocrisy doesn’t in any way absolve the individual choices these players made. It doesn’t absolve them lying about those choices.
Like I said earlier, if these players really believed in the merits of HGH as a helpful substance and thought it should be legal… why not say it?
Why lie? Why sneak around?
They could have stood up before congress and made their case… but they lied. Because that’s what bad guys who cheat do. They lie.
I was wondering that too. I really don’t know much about steroids, but if they are not bad, why don’t the players get together and say how they help and make them legal? If they are so great, why not get the rule changed? I don’t get it. My bosses in the past have come up with some very idiotic rules and ya know what? I either had to abide by them and get a paycheck, or quit, or talk with the boss and let the boss know why I didn’t agree with the rule and get the rule changed. I didn’t sneak or lie so I have a hard time sympathizing with guys who sneak and lie just to break a rule they don’t agree with. If they need the drugs so badly, quit and go take them. Or, try to get the rules changed.
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 23, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hobson's Choice
It may be passing the buck, but it’s still true. MLB has, through disinterest and then ineptitude, created a situation in which a player may choose to either A) not take steroids and not make money playing professional baseball while potentially less-talented players make millions due to chemical enhancement, or B) go on the juice.
Because their job is to entertain us, cheating is ok? You seriously believe that? Seriously? I am not sure if you are messing with me or not because I have a hard time believing anyone could write that with a straight face.
Until the rules are changed, taking a substance they KNOW is banned IS CHEATING. They are breaking the rules to beat other people. I don’t care what you call it or how you word it, hell, wrap a bow around it, cheating is still cheating. I don’t get why you guys don’t get that. When did cheating ever become ok?
When, or if they change the rules and allow anything, then it won’t be against the rules and won’t be cheating. But, until that happens, it is cheating. Makes me think that the guys who don’t use must really be good ball players who don’t need extra help and makes me appreciate them even more. To know they aren’t cheaters, well, that doesn’t hurt either.
Until they change the rules and allow this stuff, it is cheating. Until they change the rules and allow this stuff, the guys who knowingly put their careers in jeopardy for purposely taking this stuff are idiots. I don’t need to be entertained by a bunch of cheaters. I would rather see less home runs by a normal sized guy, then a guy with a bloated body and head from will be putting his job on the line. That’s not entertainment, that’s just stupidity. No thanks.
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 21, 2009 1:58 AM EDT reply actions
Put yourself in the players' shoes
Let’s say you’re a borderline major league middle infielder, a guy who in a clean league would hit something like .260 with 10 homers a season. However, you’re not in a clean league, a lot of the pitchers are juiced and without chemical assistance, you wouldn’t be able to hit that well, and you’d probably not be in the majors. So, what do you do? You can make a “moral” choice to stay clean, and watch your career fizzle, or you can take steroids and hang in the majors and make a lot of money.
Is taking steroids cheating? Sure, by the rules. But by not taking them, in an environment where many players already are, in a way you’re cheating yourself. This is what MLB has wrought by ignoring PEDs for many years, then instituting a ban but with no testing and no penalties. Now that they’re testing and have strong penalties, there is nevertheless a strong financial incentive for users to continue using, and moreover to seek new and more exotic drugs to outsmart the testing. And as long as some are using, the same incentive exists for everyone.
Serious as a heart attack. There is no cheating in acting or playing the saxophone, and those two activities exist primarily for the purpose of entertainment…as do professional sports, so why do people get their panties all in a bunch when athletes do something to make their performance more entertaining and enjoyable?
You wouldn’t have a conniption if you discovered that Robert De Niro was doing something extra to enhance his performance in Taxi Driver…in fact, you would be furious if De Niro didn’t do it and his performance was substandard.
Also, and I will make this point again because you seem to be ignoring it: pumping themselves up with shit is not the only measure that baseball players have taken to get a competitive edge in recent decades, but for some reason it is the only thing people like you seem to froth at the mouth about. In fact, many of the ways players have gotten a competitive edge are perfectly “legal”. What about the lighter more powerful bats that players are using? What about the better footwear? What about the fact that all first base coaches now carry stopwatches to time the pitchers delivery? — those certainly didn’t exist when Babe Ruth was playing. What about the thousands of hours of digital footage that players now have at their disposal to study every single batter and pitcher in the league?
by FuquaManuel on May 21, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
And besides, actors and musicians are welcomed back when they do ‘illegal’ things, be it hugh grant and his dalliance with transexual hookers or robert downey and his repeated battles with drugs and alcohol abuse that involved various laws being broken.
I’ve never understood the dichotomy that athletes are supposed to be ‘better’ humans than all the rest of us but politicians can get away with more crap and they have a greater responsibility to the public.
Again, I say if someone is this offended by what an athlete does or doesn’t do they should examine the priorities in their lives and their own issues cause it smells something fierce of ulterior motivations.
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 21, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Shameless Self-Promotion
If there is any need for reinforcement against Cindy’s arguments, I invite you to read an article I wrote recently at Baseball Daily Digest.
Relevant quotes:
In the discussion on my "Josh Hamilton Is Not A Hero" article, I kept asking for evidence that steroids were performance-enhancing. It’s not the first time I’ve asked for evidence nor will it be the last time.
Intelligent, skeptical discussion is few and far between on this matter. Most of us simply accept with blind faith that steroids are just like the mushrooms in Super Mario Bros. where you simply put the substance into your body and you instantly transform into this guy (Arnold Schwarzenegger).
We need a more honest, scientific approach to the matter rather than knee-jerk character assassination, which is what players like Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez experienced.
We need more consistency in the policies, as well.
What constitutes "performance-enhancing"? Would MaxSight contacts qualify?
Are we really concerned about the players’ health? If so, why is Raul Ibanez allowed to shove a wad of chewing tobacco in his mouth while he’s in left field at Citizens Bank Park?
Answering these and many other questions, and reacting to the answers may involve either adding more and more substances to the list or removing the drug policy altogether. And hey, maybe even an apology to Bonds and A-Rod.
by Crashburn Alley on May 21, 2009 10:56 PM EDT reply actions
Steroid problems
Most of the steroid problems seem to be in football and baseball. I was a soccer referee for 18 years and gave it up when I got cancer. People seem to have problems because of the need to bulk up for the sport they are playing. You do not need to bulk up to play soccer, or basketball or tennis. I don’t know about golf. If some athletes are multi sport people, maybe they should play sports in which they don’t need to bulk up, if they have a choice.
by fan since late 40's on May 23, 2009 9:41 PM EDT reply actions
People keep throwing around the word ‘illegal drugs’ here – if these things are illegal – i’ll ask again why doctors can prescribe them. Using something without a prescription is not the same as snorting a line of coke…
Most of the steroid problems seem to be in football and baseball. I was a soccer referee for 18 years and gave it up when I got cancer. People seem to have problems because of the need to bulk up for the sport they are playing. You do not need to bulk up to play soccer, or basketball or tennis. I don’t know about golf. If some athletes are multi sport people, maybe they should play sports in which they don’t need to bulk up, if they have a choice.
Or maybe the general public doesn’t really give a rats ass about those sports so who cares if they’re using any sort of drug. “Steroids help recovery time” – ever hear that? Ever think soccer players who run around for 90_ minutes with out rest might need some help getting back up – and somehow I doubt just cause you say it that all those sports you are raving about are any cleaner than any other sport – it’s just that no one really gives a good god damn
It’s amazing how everyone gets on their pedestal about this – like it matters – and things that truly matter in our society are ignored constantly – if congress cared this much about ACTUAL drug problems than the steroid problem – maybe something would happen.
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 23, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to clarify, at least from where I stand,using the word “illegal” means it is illegal or banned from the game of baseball and against the rules. I don’t know the health implications, but once something is banned, then taking it is breaking the rules. The doctors should know what is or isn’t banned and at the very least, the players should. They should be smart enough to ask or get what they can or can’t take in writing. When the guys are taking a substance that is banned/illegal, then they are knowingly breaking the rules.
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 23, 2009 10:13 PM EDT reply actions
using the word "illegal" means it is illegal or banned from the game of baseball and against the rules.
How does that make sense? The root word is “legal” and the suffix il- means it’s “not legal.” Legal refers to law.
Doing something that’s against the rules of a game — which are totally separate from the country’s set of laws — would be termed something like a rule infraction, or breaking the rules.
Rules != Laws
Of course, your argument rests on the premise that the use of products against the rules or laws is justified, which it often is not. All prohibitive drug laws are wrong, in fact, because they have never, ever worked (see: 1920’s alcohol prohibition; Drugs, War on).
Here’s an example of the frivolity of your logic: let’s say fielding gloves are outlawed from baseball. The day after, Jimmy Rollins trots out to shortstop with his glove and is banned for 50 games. Instead of pointing out how stupid the rule is, you say, “Well, it’s against the rules, so it must be right. See ya, Jimmy!”
They should be smart enough to ask or get what they can or can’t take in writing.
Have you seen the rules and regulations of Major League Baseball? The only people that A) have the time and B) have the attention span to read it all are people that get paid to do it, like lawyers and agents. I would doubt even doctors take the time to read that. In fact, I would doubt that most lawyers and agents have read it as well.
At any rate, it’s not as black-and-white as you make it sound. Take J.C. Romero’s case, for instance. He took the precautions you suggest and still got suspended because of MLB’s ambiguous policies.
by Crashburn Alley on May 27, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
If rules are stupid, change them. Quit bitching about them and breaking them, but get them changed. If not and they still can’t live with them, get a new job. That is how the world works. One rule at my job is no stealing. Guess what? I don’t steal. If I did, I should be fired. One of their rules is not to put certain things in their bodies. Put those certain things in their bodies and they get in trouble. If my boss said we can’t wear baseball hats to work, yet we can outside of work and is totally legal outside of my office, if I chose to wear a baseball hat and knowingly broke the rule, well, I should get in trouble. It might be a stupid rule, but it is the rule that the person who is paying me made up so I have the choice to either follow it and keep my job, or break it and deal with the consequences.
Whatever word you want to call it, it is still against the rules and doing something that is against the rules is grounds for suspension. I work for a lawyer and the job of a lawyer is to protect his client. If he doesn’t, the lawyer gets in trouble and can even lose their bar card. I am going to assume that the players would not be telling their lawyers that they are taking a banned substance which may lead to them getting suspended and/or fined because the lawyer would realize that the client would lose money and not be able to pay the lawyer. No money, no lawyer. If the lawyer can’t figure out the rules and regulations of MLB, maybe they should not be a lawyer. It is their job to figure that stuff out. If they can’t, get a new job. I am amazed and bothered that people keep arguing that cheating is ok, or that the players/doctors/lawyers are too stupid to read the rules and figure them out. If something is unclear about a substance, DON’T TAKE IT. Duh. Stop making excuses for their cheating. They are not that stupid.
P.S. If I wanted to wear a hat even though my boss said no baseball hats, yet I wanted to wear one anyone but I was unclear on what types of hats I could wear, I would ask if a visor was ok, or a cowboy hat was ok BEFORE I WORE IT TO WORK. I wouldn’t just do it and hope it was ok.
Hugs!
Cindy
by CindythePhilliesFaninCA on May 27, 2009 12:06 PM EDT reply actions
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/28/too-much-ado-about-steroids/
http://www.thefanzine.com/articles/science/312/roid_rave-steroids,they_do_a_body_goodY/1
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/Story?id=7517412&page=1
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on May 28, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions
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