Joe Sheehan rips Moyer

by jonk on May 16, 2009 9:15 PM EDT Comment 15 comments

I know a lot of people have had thier differences on Sheehan, but he is dead on with this article. I was very aggravated Moyer didn't walk away either, but every start now is just him trying to use smoke and mirrors and the smoke has dissapated and the mirrors are cracked.

BP article (needs subscription)

"Even if 8.15 is an inflated number, there's little in Moyer's first seven starts to indicate that he has enough left to be in the rotation for a team trying to win a championship."

Agreed.

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I think the Phils were put in a tough position with Moyer, coming off the WFC. I’m not sure if not bringing him back was an option. That being said, a two-year contract was inexcusable for a player his age.

This is one of those times when the Phils could have used a page out of the Eagles playbook. Granted, the Eagles have yet to get over the hump (and I wouldn’t trade the Phils WFC for anything in the sports world), but they are generally very savvy about making the smart business decision despite what the popular, “feel good,” or dare I say, loyal, thing might be to do.

Steve Jeltz
.210/.308/.268
"I am a Matt Stairs fan. I celebrate his entire catalogue."

by Steve Jeltz on May 17, 2009 1:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

inexcusable? really? was it also inexcusable to give a two-year contract to the 45 year old version of him? because that one worked out alright…

also, lets not jump off the moyer boat so quickly. as david cohen pointed out, he’s been through some terrible patches before. and maybe this is it for him, but well, we’ve seen him do some pretty unexpected things before.

if I can remember, at the time of his re-signing, most reactions were along the lines of, “good, glad we got that done.” I think we all would have preferred a one year deal, but after they didn’t offer him arbitration, it didn’t seem like that was an option. I definitely wouldn’t call this one “inexcusable.”

by char6587 on May 17, 2009 5:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Well said.

"Man, you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on May 17, 2009 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Woah, easy there killer. Seeing that this is a blog and all, I was merely registering my opinion that signing Moyer for two years at that price was a mistake. My feeling was that Moyer was unlikely to outperform a variety of cheaper options over that two year stretch. That was how I felt at the time, and that’s how I feel now. The fact that “most reactions” were positive (I remember it being 50/50 myself) is irrelevant to my own opinions both at the time of re-signing and now. I agree that it’s early and I would love nothing more than for Moyer to turn it around and for my opinion to turn out wrong.

Steve Jeltz
.210/.308/.268
"I am a Matt Stairs fan. I celebrate his entire catalogue."

by Steve Jeltz on May 18, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if I can remember, at the time of his re-signing, most reactions were along the lines of, "good, glad we got that done.

Where were those reactions?

If it was a mistake it’s a mistake on both sides, you can’t blame moyer for not walking away – no one put a gun to thephillies head and said you gotta sign him.

Unless of course they signed him not because they thought he could still pitch but because they didn’t want to ‘upset the fan base’ – which I sometimes get the feeling motivates some move they make – at which point they should all be fired.

"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."

Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.

by jemagee on May 17, 2009 12:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Where were those reactions?

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2008/12/15/693079/phillies-re-sign-jamie-moy

by char6587 on May 17, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

AH I see – an approximate 50/50 split that diverges into a variety of other conversations counts as ‘most’…I wouldn’t call what i read as ‘most’ being positive about it

"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."

Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.

by jemagee on May 17, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

again, after the non-arb offer, we were not going to get him for one year. so, when the contract was signed, I think that most phillies fans were happy to have him back (even if it was for two years). I posted the link for the body of the post (which I thought represented the general feeling among philly fans) not the comments. sorry for the confusion.

what I was trying to say, and maybe I didn’t do it well enough, was that calling this inexcusable or ripping amaro/the phillies for bringing him back on a two year deal was a) probably jumping the gun, as moyer has been bad before and b) also seems like a little bit revisionist’s history/convenient as I really got the feeling that most of us were happy to have him back, even if it meant david montgomery spending a little more money.

by char6587 on May 17, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is inaccurate on at least 10 different levels, maybe 12 if I really want to stretch a couple.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on May 18, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

SO now it’s most phillies fans – and not ‘most here’ – most phillies fans also booed pat burrell most of his career and thought that giving up a pitcher on a team that lacked quality pitching wasn’t much to give up to get rid of the aberu cancer.

"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."

Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.

by jemagee on May 18, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The first three posts are trashing it.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on May 17, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah that’s what i’m saying (one of them is you) :)

"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."

Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.

by jemagee on May 17, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am happy to say that I was one of the people who expressed concern with the Moyer contract. Nice to be on the right side for once.

by FuquaManuel on May 18, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Moyer still useful

I think Moyer is too valuable to just throw away. He’s a great mentor to the younger pitchers and would be a good middle reliever behind the harder throwing pitchers like Meyers. As a starter, I think Moyer (and Park) have to go from the rotation and start Happ and possibly Madson or some young gun from the farm…

by PhillyPhreak on May 17, 2009 7:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The one ray of hope in Sheehan's article...

…is that he admits that “writing off Jamie Moyer is a risky thing, given that he probably could have been a high school teacher by age-30 based on where his career was at 28.”

Rewind back to late September 2007 — lost in the shuffle of winning the pennant (behind Moyer’s quality start, no less) was the fact that Moyer posted a 5.78 ERA and 1.63 WHIP after the All-Star break. I thought he might have been finished at that point — and I don’t think I was alone in that sentiment. Then, of course, he rebounded with a very good 2008.

This isn’t to say that Moyer is going to miraculously turn things around, but as Sheehan says, he’s a strange animal. He broke PECOTA, his career arc is singular, and he’s shown an uncanny ability to make adjustments. If there’s anyone anyone who can suddenly and miraculously turn things around, it would be Moyer.

(All that being said, I still think we should’ve signed Lowe instead. But never say never when it comes to Jamie.)

by PhillyFriar on May 18, 2009 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs