Phillies Breakfast Links: June 10, 2009.
by WholeCamels on Jun 10, 2009 7:33 AM EDT
50 comments
Madson prepared to step in for Lidge
At this point, can Ryan Madson do much worse?
Reyes frustrated as he waits for injuries to heal
So he dances in sadness...
Raul Ibanez responds to blogger's accusations
"Make them accountable. There should be more credibility than some 42-year-old blogger typing in his mother's basement. It demeans everything you've done with one stroke of the pen."
I understand and appreciate Raul Ibanez's anger here, but I don't know anyone who took that "blogger" seriously.
Louisville Bats complete sweep of the IronPigs
"Louisville battered Carlos Carrasco for for nine hits, including two home runs, and seven runs in five innings to complete a four-game sweep of Lehigh Valley with a 7-4 win Tuesday night before 9,928 at Louisville Slugger Field."
Getting worrisome with Carrasco...
Drabek wins again for Double A Phillies
5 IP, 2 R, 7 H, 3 K, 5 BB. Not that great, but good enough.
Mets get chance to pay back Hamels
Poor wittle Mets, did the mean man say things about you on the radio?!
Millville's Mike Trout could be newest Angel in the outfield
Jersey native selected in the first round of the MLB Draft by "Los Angeleez Angels" (thanks, Bud Selig).
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How come bloggers can’t afford an apartment of their own. I mean, is the laundry and cooking too much to give up? I guess that is the case since I am sure Ibanez has met his fair share of middle aged bloggers in his lifetime.
Ibanez should have responded, “If I was doping, I’d do it before I got my contract, not after…duh!”
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
by jonk on Jun 10, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the logic of “He’s doping now after signing what’s likely to be his last big contract” is kind of baffling.
The fallout of the steroid witchhunt is that anyone who is on a hot streak is a “suspect” to the morons out there.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jun 10, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
easy to understand
It is hard to blame people for having that reaction given the names and the associated numbers that have gotten smudged by the PED scandal.
I don’t quite understand why mainstream media outlets are quoting and therefore elevating the profile of bloggers with no journalistic ethical or professional requirement and probably not that many readers. It’s the equivalent of a reporter saying, “There’s a guy on the street corner shouting in a loud voice that you are on steroids, and there were 1,000 people in the vicinity that heard him. How do you respond to these serious allegations?”
by BigPhillyStyle on Jun 10, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about the scrubs who have been implicated? David Bell, Ryan Franklin, Guillermo Mota, Paul LoDuca, etc.
Is there any correlation between “suspicion of use” (ugh) and elite performance?
Accusing people with NO evidence is just morally repugnant.
I’m sick of the PED witchhunt. It must end.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jun 10, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
correlation
Not every player caught using PEDs exhibited an elite level of performance … however, a shocking number of players that have exhibited an elite level of performance have admitted to, or are surrounded by strong evidence suggesting PED use. Among these players PED use is associated with “taking it to the next level” ala McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds achieving single season home run totals never seen before in 1998-2001. There’s no going back. Fans aren’t going to put their heads back in the sand. It is an over-reaction, I agree with you, but I think it speaks to the extent of the damage done and the degree to which fans feel let down.
by BigPhillyStyle on Jun 10, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is hard to blame people for having that reaction given the names and the associated numbers that have gotten smudged by the PED scandal.
No, it’s not really, it’s quite easy to blame people for being sheep and not bothering to think things through…
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point, can Ryan Madson do much worse?
My fear is that once dropped back into the setup role he loses something. And if Lidge can’t come back, now you have two poor performers, not just one.
by PhillyPhantastico on Jun 10, 2009 9:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ESPN Mike & MIke just brought up the Ibanez thing.
This really never should have made the paper actually…but that’s the world we are in. I’m just curios as to which blogger it was
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 9:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ibanez
This whole “controversy” was intentionally ginned up by one John Gonzalez, whose goal in life apparently is to gin up fake controversies. Without him, nobody ever would have heard of this obscure blogger.
by taco pal on Jun 10, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Carrasco
To be fair, he had just had three or four good starts before yesterday’s bad one. Game log. While yesterday’s news obviously isn’t good, “gettin’ worrisome” connotes a continuous descent that just isn’t there. Maybe we should be worried, but we should be considerably less worried than we were on, say, May 15.
I think when you have Bad Trend followed by Good Trend followed by Bad Game (or vice versa), it’s human nature not just to qualify the middle trend but to forget it ever even existed. But that’s a fallacy.
by taco pal on Jun 10, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Payback for Pelfrey
Nice to see the Mets site picked the “Pelfrey’s Stellar Start” video highlight instead of “Pelfrey Likely to be Supermarket Bagger after 9 ER in 3.2 Against Lowly Pirates” video highlight.
by Steve J on Jun 10, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, hearing BUD pronounce Cincinnati last night was one of the funnier parts of the draft
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
didn't hear that...
But “Los Angeleeeez” just about made me drive off the road.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jun 10, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason he pronounced it ‘hick like’ to me – the last ‘vowel’ sound was not an e – but an ‘uh’ since-uh-nat-uh
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorta like “Missour-uh”?
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jun 10, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup – I kind of half expected him to say “the st louie cardinals”
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zolecki and Beerleaguer are saying that Brad Lidge’s knee injury dates back to the World Series celebratory pile on.
Now if that is not the stupidest, but most ironic, way to get hurt then I don’t know what is.
by FuquaManuel on Jun 10, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Or, alternatively, it’s the best possible way to get hurt ever!
by taco pal on Jun 10, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saying in that someone with any sort of knowledge told them or saying as in ’i’m gonna make something up that seems ironic’?
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he meant...
Are they saying that based off an inside source or just speculation?
by Screen Name 20 on Jun 10, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ibanez
ESPN is going to feature the Ibanez story today on Outside the Lines. Great work, Gonzalez. You smeared Ibanez’s name more than any blogger ever could.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/index
by taco pal on Jun 10, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great
Just another opportunity for the WWL to take potshots at bloggers…
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jun 10, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they’ll spare the real ‘culprit’ in this situation who is the putz who works for the local paper who made it more than it should have been…can’t call him a journalist – as he isn’t one…rumor monger, fishwrap writer, whatever….
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d watch the OTL show just to see if Gonzalez weaseled an appearance
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with everything Ibanez said
but did he have to go the cliched every blogger is a 40 year old who still lives in his mother’s basement.
by Sokojoe on Jun 10, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he did – it minimizes ‘all’ bloggers – even reputable ones – lumping them all together, SOP when unjustly accused, spit back venomously
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“You can have my urine, my hair, my blood, my stool – anything you can test,” Ibanez said. “I’ll give you back every dime I’ve ever made” if the test is positive.
Well, clearly the hair is going to have to come from somewhere else.
by FuquaManuel on Jun 10, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not for nothing, but is there a test that accurate detects HGH yet – regardless of ‘source’?
ESPN and the OTL thing – sure – let’s investigate that – personally i think college basketball is ripe for another expose as it seems big name coaches and programs are still cheating and not well either
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might be off, but I think it requires a blood test and it would only really show as an elevated level in the blood stream, not necessarily the presence of anything “foreign.”
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jun 10, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WC is pretty much correct. hGH is also known as just plain old GH, or Growth Hormone, one of the most prevalent hormones found in human blood. It’s level fluctuates hour to hour based on a huge set of factors. So detecting elevated levels in blood is pretty incriminating, but on the same level as testosterone in bike racers – possible to have levels that high, but really improbable. The World Anti-Doping Agency has a blood test for elevated levels that they use (still no positive results in athletes) and say is reliable. Not sure if MLB is on board with that.
Regardless, there’s pretty inconclusive evidence as to how much it actually helps… It almost definitely helps with injury recovery, which is no small effect, but there is most likely not nearly the correlation with increased power numbers as there is with anabolic steroids.
by Steve J on Jun 10, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As I understand the MLB/Player agreement for ‘testing’ it applies to urine only – not blood
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like you’re right. MLB is correct then when they say there is no known reliable test for hGH. Just based on their dumb rules.
This gets to the heart of my frustration with the league over the entire doping scandal. If you choose to ban hGH and a reliable test exists, then it should’ve been written into the CBA (or wherever that would be taken care of). The fact that blood doping isn’t tested for just shows how ridiculous the whole thing is. Bud and Co are more concerned with making everyone think they’re doing a good job than actually creating a fair and reasonable system.
by Steve J on Jun 10, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um…while I agree that MLB is run by idiots, it’s called an ‘agreement’ – the players would need to AGREE to the blood testing and to do so MLB would have to give something back to the players (because this is the most contentious idiotic labor relationship this side of the globe journalists who wouldn’t give up ‘lifetime employment’ in their CBA). I’d lay even money that the reason blood doping isnt in the MLB testing policy is because the players union wouldn’t agree to it unless given something outrageously idiotic in return.
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This basement is really stuffy. . . .
by PhillyPhantastico on Jun 10, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you guys notice
That in the blogger’s article, he never accused Ibanez of using steroids?
I hate to sound like a smart ass but you should actually read the articles instead of assuming based on the MSM’s reaction. The blogger did nothing wrong.
by Crashburn Alley on Jun 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I find the title of the blogger article mislead ‘comes with steroid speculation’?
What speculation was their before this blogger wrote the article?
And as keith law said – just cause someone goes on a hot streak – libelous rumor mongers need to look to steroids to get readership.
It’s ridiculous to say ‘oh look a guy is good for a couple months, let’s speculate that he may be on steroids’ – it’s shameful
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is asking questions shameful? Before I get into it, I have no dog in this fight: I don’t care if Raul Ibanez is on steroids or not; I think they should be legalized.
However, what the blogger did is a thought experiment. He asked a question, stated a hypothesis, did research, and came to a conclusion that he had no conclusion.
Nothing he did was libelous nor was it rumor-mongering.
I find the title of the blogger article mislead ‘comes with steroid speculation’?
Judging a book by its cover: Don’t do it!
The title isn’t misleading, as the article does speculate on possible steroid use. Speculating — also known as asking questions — is a great thing. His title isn’t accusatory or libelous or rumor-monger… mongery?
What speculation was their before this blogger wrote the article?
I can’t cite any for you specifically, but I definitely heard steroid accusations prior to this, particularly towards the end of April and early May.
The blog entry was most definitely not asinine. It was intellectually-stimulating and the blogger practiced good science.
by Crashburn Alley on Jun 10, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t cite any for you specifically, but I definitely heard steroid accusations prior to this, particularly towards the end of April and early May.
Sorry, but that’s not even worthy of mention in the lowest blog – oh i head some somewhere but I wasn’t paying attention.
If Bloggers want to be taken seriously, then they have to act and write seriously and understand the consequences of making things up.
Nothing he did was libelous nor was it rumor-mongering
Read the title again, then read what you said about ’i’m not sure where i read it but I read it’ – maybe not rumor mongering to you – but to me it’s not even up to the standards of perez hilton or tmz.
Again, show me the evidence, the proof that steroid use helps performance, the studies, with the guys on and not on steroids and how it made them perform better – because as far as i’m concerned while theres ranting and raving from all sorts of corners that really should be focused on better things i see no proof of anything published anywhere that is supported by – you know – actual evidence and not speculation and anecdotes.
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always thought you shouldn’t judge a book by its cover because the cover art doesn’t typically come from the author, so it may not be representative of the contents. The author of the blog post (JRod) presumably wrote his own title, however, so he’s inviting criticism right off the bat.
Here’s the thing — JRod isn’t asking questions. He set out to answer a question, and found that the evidence didn’t support his hypothesis, namely that Ibanez’ improvement is largely due to park factors. So far, so good. But he let his non-findings validate the reverse hypothesis when he says “… since I was not able to draw any absolute parallels between his prodigously improved HR rate and his new ballpark’s hitter-friendliness, it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility that "other" performance enhancers could be part of the equation.”
If JRod subsequently wrote that the late-career spike (in less than a half-season to boot) is evidence of exactly nothing, I doubt this ever would have seen the light of day. But he didn’t do that. He takes a cheap cop-out of saying “… I am withholding judgment until we see a full seasons’ worth of stats.” As if a full season’s ABs at this level means anything other than a career year. It’s extremely unlikely that Ibanez is going to sustain this performance all season, but if he did, it still would not be evidence of PEDs.
by phatj on Jun 10, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is wrong with what he said?
He said, “it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility that ‘other’ performance enhancers could be part of the equation.”
Sounds fine to me.
by Crashburn Alley on Jun 11, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is the point is trite. It would be foolish to dismiss the possibility that ANY player is using PEDs. Raul just happens to have had an extremely good couple of months (which isn’t unprecedented for him) which have been highlighted because they fell at the beginning of the season. By saying he’s withholding judgement, he’s implying that these stats are too good to be true.
Also, this quote bugged the crap out of me:
It will be a wonderful day when we can see a great start by a veteran like Ibanez and not immediately jump to speculating about whether steroids or PEDs are involved. We certainly are not at that point yet, however.
And whether we ever get there remains to be seen.
Sure, you’re not at that point, but speak for yourself. The Ibanez/steroids angle hadn’t even crossed my mind until I read about this yesterday. And of course he’s fueling the fire by not making the point that the hot start means nothing.
Incidentally, if MattS has the opportunity in the BP Idol contest, this is the sort of thing that he could easily explore statistically — what are the chances that a player with Raul’s career numbers, at the age of 37, would have a two-month stretch as good as he has had? This could be adjusted for park and league factors as well.
by phatj on Jun 11, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was an asinine blog post
It was an asinine move by gonzalez
It was a stupid response by Ibanez
and ESPN is making a bigger deal out of it than it is because they know people will watch (much like the fact that tonights game is red sox vs yankees cause that draws the biggest ratings preventing me from seeing phils/mets, probably the only match up (red/sox yankees) that would bump a phis/mets wednesday fete off of ESPN)
There’s more than enough idiocy to go around here – all because some idiot used anecdotal evidence to speculate about something that’s never really been proven more than anecdotally.
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Bloggers want to be taken seriously, then they have to act and write seriously and understand the consequences of making things up.
The blogger in question didn’t make anything up, though.
And I don’t think there’s any consensus among bloggers about them wanting to be taken seriously. Personally, I don’t care if I get any notoriety or wealth out of blogging; I just do it because I love it and I love following and analyzing baseball. I’d bet it’s the same way for the Raul-accuser.
Read the title again, then read what you said about ’i’m not sure where i read it but I read it’ – maybe not rumor mongering to you – but to me it’s not even up to the standards of perez hilton or tmz.
I think you need to read it again. Or actually, not read blog titles at all because you’re not getting anything close to what the blog actually talks about. Did you read the entire blog word-for-word? It’s intelligent, well-thought-out, well-analyzed, scientifically-sound and not accusatory, asinine, unprofessional, childish, etc. in the least.
You asked me “What speculation was their before this blogger wrote the article?”
If you really want to know, do some Googling. I don’t know why you expect me to have a 500-page report typed up and ready to go chronicling each and every accusation pointed at Raul. I can’t cite anything for you specifically because 99.9% of the time, I ignore the steroid crap because it’s a non-issue completely blown up by the mainstream media.
Again, show me the evidence, the proof that steroid use helps performance
As I said, I think steroids should be legalized, so I’m with you here. I’ve written about this — where’s the evidence? — countless times. Preaching to the choir here.
by Crashburn Alley on Jun 10, 2009 7:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rollins ankle still troubling?
Hey
When Rollins got on last night in the 9th, and we needed 1 run to tie, why was he not stealing? And why so few stolen bases this year? (I know, “You can’t steal first.”, but he has been caught much more often for much fewer stolen bases this year than previous.) Is he still having ankle trouble? Is that why he is having trouble at the plate, too?
by JWoody on Jun 10, 2009 9:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hard to steal bases when your on-base percentage is .268.
Gotta get to first before you can steal second. :)
by Crashburn Alley on Jun 10, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could it just be – he’s turning 30 – and he’s going to start slowing down?
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Jun 10, 2009 10:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The blog article wouldn't have been a big deal.
The paper writing about said article made it a big deal.
The difference in the lineup he’s now in and the home park seem more likely than juicing up AFTER his last big contract.
"I do not buy numbers defensively. At all," Amaro said. "I look at fielding percentage. But that other business? I don’t buy it a lick."
by Big Jared on Jun 11, 2009 5:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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