Kudos to Charlie Manuel: Phillies Best in NL Since 2005

by David S. Cohen on Jun 5, 2009 9:59 AM EDT Comment 17 comments

More photos » by David Zalubowski - AP

Charlie Manuel took the reins from Larry Bowa in 2005. Since then, the Phillies have had four winning seasons in a row, been to the playoffs twice, and, as we all know, won the World Series last year.

And the team isn't letting up. They are four games up on the Mets in the NL East and have the second best record in baseball (3 games behind the Dodgers).

We all know that last night's win continued the Phillies win streak and put the Dodgers and MLB on notice that Cole Hamels is back. But, what is less known about last night's win is what it did for Charlie Manuel's career as the Phillies manager.

With last night's win, the Phillies now have the most wins in the NL since Manuel took over the team. Since 2005, the Phillies have won 386 regular season games. The Mets, who lost yesterday, are now second at 385. In the entire majors, the Phillies sit fourth since 2005, behind the three AL juggernauts -- Yankees (407), Angels (405), and Red Sox (404). (The entire list is below the jump.)

The World Series win last year automatically cemented Manuel's legacy in Phillies lore. But there's more to his managerial rein (so far) than just the World Series. The Phillies -- the franchise with the most losses in sports, the franchise that has been doomed since its inception, the franchise from the city that just can't seem to get its sports right -- have been the best team in the NL under Manuel. To change a franchise and give it such sustained success is remarkable.

Kudos to you Charlie Manuel.

Team	Wins
NYY	407
ANA	405
BOS	404
PHI	386
NYM	385
STL	378
CHW	375
MIN	373
CLE	371
TOR	366
LAD	362
MIL	360
DET	356
OAK	354
CHC	353
HOU	353
ATL	351
ARI	348
SDP	347
TEX	344
FLA	342
COL	328
CIN	327
SEA	322
SFG	321
TBD	319
BAL	305
WSN	298
PIT	294
KCR	285

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Comments

That’s quite an achievement.

We’ve really had a good run for some time now. If you were in middle school today, you’d probably only be capable of remembering one losing season ever by the Phillies.

by taco pal on Jun 5, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's what's remarkable

The Phillies are on a run that could create a group of fans who think that the team is naturally a dominant force in baseball. Even going back to 2001, the team has had only one losing season.

by David S. Cohen on Jun 5, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And they were 80-81 that year; not exactly awful. But for one cancellation they could have been .500. Not too shabby.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jun 5, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Against the Reds.

I still remember that.

Remember the Phitans

by RememberthePhitans on Jun 5, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i’m pretty sure i looked this up last year— the only other teams in the majors who have had as many consecutive winning seasons as the phillies are the yankees and red sox.

by Matt Swartz on Jun 5, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like the late 70’s to early 80’s, this truly is a golden age for Phillies fans. It’s great to have a title in the bag too because it cements/legitimizes this run…it’s exactly what the Eagles have been unable to do. Here’s to continuing to enjoy the ride.

Steve Jeltz
.210/.308/.268
"I am a Matt Stairs fan. I celebrate his entire catalogue."

by Steve Jeltz on Jun 5, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a lot of credit

has to go to our scouts.. look at all the impact players who have come from us drafting them.. and not just impact, but one-of-a-kind franchise players

WFC

by stillhotish on Jun 5, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Us = Ed Wade?

Just checking. I haven’t drafted anyone.

Remember the Phitans

by RememberthePhitans on Jun 5, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

us = the organization

i did have a say in the Hamels selection, though

WFC

by stillhotish on Jun 5, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll be the contrarian.

I’m of the belief that a manager doesn’t have a great deal of pull on a team’s successes or failures throughout the season. Sure, you can cherry-pick a few instances every year, but generally, it’s washed out by the players’ talent and plain ol’ luck.

Further, the Phillies were competitive before Manuel was hired:

2001: 86 wins
2002: 80
2003: 86
2004: 86

(Average: 84.5)

2005: 88
2006: 85
2007: 89
2008: 92

(Average: 88.5)

Considering that 2005-08 also coincided with the emergence of Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, and Cole Hamels, that four-game difference in average doesn’t seem like it can be attributed to Manuel.

I’m not trying to bash the guy — I think he’s a great person and I want him to succeed as much as all of you. I’m just saying that there was a reason we were nit-picking his strategies over the past few years: he’s not a great tactician. But again, good or bad, I don’t think a manager has a lot of pull on game results.

I will say that for what intangibles are worth, I don’t think you can get any better than Manuel. If there was some way to quantify that, Manuel would lead the league every year in whatever list of positive intangibles you can think of.

Crashburn Alley

by Crashburn Alley on Jun 5, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's not about game decisions

I’ve never thought a manager’s influence on the game is really about game-time decisions. In fact, from what I understand, a lot of that is done by the bench coach. Rather, what the manager does, and what Charlie does so well, is get the most out of his players. Charlie does that, especially with hitters. He and Milt Thompson make hitters better. And that translates to wins.

by David S. Cohen on Jun 5, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Friday night's loss

I think Romero or Madsen should have pitched the ninth inning.

by fan since late 40's on Jun 6, 2009 2:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Did you think that before the ninth inning?

by phatj on Jun 6, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Managers get too much credit and too much blame.

"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."

Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.

by jemagee on Jun 6, 2009 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

For phatj

Thanks for your comment. Yes, I thought that about the sixth inning. I live in the Mojave desert about 50 miles from LA so dodger games are all I have to watch. I have hated the dodgers since the 1940’s. I just can’t understand Charlie’s managing techniques. I was working at a bank in Ardmore many years ago and Mayo Smith came in about 10 A.M. to cash a check. He stunk of liquor. I thought to my self, managing must be a lot harder than I surmised.

by fan since late 40's on Jun 6, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A huge percetage of the best managers of all time were alcoholics or big drinkers. Managing a big league team is very difficult. Few can pull it off for a long time. Most managers we consider good are those in situations that maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Many managers are good in the right situation and bad in the wrong one. The great ones were able to succeed for a long time and in varying circumstances.

A LOT of successful managing is good old fashioned leadership ability. The X and O part is probably much less important.

by smitty99 on Jun 7, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another comment for phatj

I see that Howard is fielding much better recently and I commend him for his improvement. However, I would put Dobbs in for the late innings at first base to give him some playing time and keep him from getting rusty.

by fan since late 40's on Jun 6, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs