Werth an All-Star - The Good Phight

very nice

i just saw this a few minutes ago too. pablo’s gonna be pissed

by sports00fan00 on Jul 10, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As a Giants fan,

This is an outrage. Charlie Manuel should be ashamed of himself.

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nah, if the Giants had better fans, then Sandoval would be playing. Blame yourselves.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 10, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The system sucks, and frankly I don’t think ballot box stuffing constitutes a better or worse fanbase.

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree about the system. I am not going to kill Manuel because he is doing what managers have done for years. Werth has had a good year and is probably just a good of a selection as a few others. Shane was a much more sketchy choice, but it;s not Manuel’s fault he won.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 10, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The entire Phillies outfield does not deserve to be in the all star game. Even if you play the “we need an outfielder to replace on outfielder” card then it goes from Pablo to Kemp getting screwed. …and I hate Matt Kemp.

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Werth > Kemp > Victornio

You guys have an agument that Kemp deserves a spot over Vic, except the fans voted Vic in. Werth is werthy.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Werth is not better than Kemp on this or any other planet.

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and again… I hate that man. That’s just the way it is.

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

Kemp >>>>>>>>>> Werth
easily

VOTE SANDOVAL
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Jul 10, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Better average, better obp, more sb’s, plays a great cf. The only stat he trails in is home runs but how many would Werth have if he played in Dodger Stadium instead of Citizens Bandbox?

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You realize that Werth has better SLG which is based on a better ISO since most of Kemp’s value comes from his BA. Werth walks a ton more and just so you know, Werth is RAKING the ball on the road and is pedestrian in the “bandbox”.

Home: .233 .326 .507 .832
Away: .302 .418 .537 .954

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was just speculating on the dingers, thank you for clarifying. Even with the higher hr total he still not the player Kemp is.
And as far as the Kemp’s average being higher than Werths wouldn’t you attribute that to becoming a better hitter? Isn’t he only 24?
How dare you make me defend a Dodger this much btw.

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As Jonk as illustrated, I don’t think it is so clear that Kemp is heads and shoulders above Werth at all (offensively at least).

by FuquaManuel on Jul 10, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We are talking about this year, right? If I had to choose one in a draft, I’d probably choose…well, Werth, but only cause he drinks a ton of beer and gets hot chicks.

Werth has 8 more XBH than Kemp and while it is harder to hit HRs in LA, it is easier to hit doubles and triples. I honestly like Werth’s patience a lot more.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 10, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kemp also has more stolen bags and plays elite cf

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except Werth’s BABIP is .293 while Kemp’s is .393. That is 13 points above his ridiculously high career average while Werth’s is 40 points below his career average. Kemp has a lot of value from his batting average which is partially due to good luck.

Werth may not be better than Kemp overall, but he is having just as good of a season if not slightly better at the plate.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m all for babip as a predictive stat but when you’re rewarding performance does it really matter how someone gets more hits than someone else?

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it is based on luck, sure. I am not saying that Werth will be a better player next year or even the rest of this year. I am saying that Kemp has been pretty lucky while Werth has been slightly unlucky on his BABIP. Werth isn’t seeing the huge impact from playing in CBP as you would expect, but is crushing the ball on the road.

Werth is certainly performing as well as Kemp has been. Victorino is another story, but I can’t kill him for winning the fan vote.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 10, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think you can just write it off as luck though. And who cares if someone is lucky or not? I’ll take the lucky guy with all the hits over the unlucky guy with all the hard outs.

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kemp is also hitting more line drives though (21.3% to 17.4%). And despite his worse plate discipline, they are striking out at very similar rates (very different walk rates, of course)

VOTE SANDOVAL
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Jul 10, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not that much higher than Kemp’s career BABIP.

Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.

by oldjacket on Jul 10, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I'll blame your umemployment rate.

by MinerNiner on Jul 10, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least our state isn’t bankrupt… How’s that budget coming again?

"I tried to run him over but Eli had his big boy pads on and he kind of stopped me from getting in the end zone. The next time I’ll try to jump over his head.’’ - Asante Samuel

by foos05 on Jul 10, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We’re not really going to get into a which state is better contest are we?

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As someone who lived 18 years in PA and is about to hit 15 years in california i can say that pennsylvania easily wins that race :)

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 10, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Werth

Werth is an injury replacement for Beltran, right? Doesn’t the manager have to pick another OFer to replace Beltran with? If so, Pandavol does not qualify as the injury replacement. I think the player that got screwed by this system is OF-Matt Kemp. Kemp is 4th in the NL in WAR, Werth 12th and Pandoval 13th. I know that modern day managers/media/casual fans tend to overlook things like positional adjustments, defense etc… but if anybody has a gripe about not making the team it is Matt Kemp.

Why not give the team that is the favorite to be in the W.S. from the NL a chance to obtain the home field advantage for their league.

vr, Xeifrank

by Xeifrank on Jul 10, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

So the team with the 3rd best record is the favorite to be in the WS?

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

WHat’s more likely?

Phillies maintaining their lead and winning their division?

Giants lucky run continuing and maintaining a wild card lead?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 10, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t you have to consider the Dodgers the favorite? And who’s to say the team with the better record in the first half won’t have the better record in the second half?

Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

by BrianBokake on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dear Giants fans

When the SF giants win the world series, their manager can then put undeserving replacements and alternates on the all star rosters as well…I can’t believe people take this nonsense so seriously.

Besides, Panda (assuming he doesn’t eat his way out of the league) has a few years ahead of him to make ASG whereas this is probably Victtorino and Werths only shot…

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 10, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey, I’m a Giants fan and this is pretty much where I stand, too. I think a lot of people were bummed because they were putting a lot of effort into the voting process only to get knocked out at the end. Additionally, it’s really hard to overstate how excited the fans are about Sandoval this year, after years of not winning and not developing any good positional players.

Anyway, we’re not all bitter and angry.

by FPTV on Jul 10, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The phils had the freaking mayor helping out Victorino (I learned on ESPN – thank god the mayor isn’t busy with his real job) – so it’s not like there wasn’t a campaign.

As for werth vs sandoval – others have said it – not the right debate – beltran is an OF replace him with an OF – the Sandoval debate should be ‘why is ryan howard there over sandoval?’

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 10, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like the Giants. I love their park, they’ve got the best announcers in MLB, their city is awesome, their fans whom I’ve met are generally pretty cool, and there’s nobody in baseball more fun to watch than Timmy L.

But this is a bit of an overreaction. Werth isn’t a bum who was picked solely on Manuel’s favoritism. He’s having a better year than Hunter Pence (and probably Victorino, to be fair), and is in the ballpark with the other NL reserve outfielders.

If you want to be sore at Manuel, blame him for picking Howard, who’s having a pretty middling year, over Sandoval as another corner IF. But that’s hardly an “outrage” either.

by dajafi on Jul 10, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if MLB encouraged managers to pick guys who others might see as ‘less deserving’ to spur fan interest.

The fact that this game has any impact on the regular season is embarassing to the sport

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 10, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this

by FPTV on Jul 10, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What’s frustrating to me is that they do all these things to make it goofy and gimmicky—the “last vote,” the dumbassed requirement that every team be represented, let alone the awful HR Derby—and then attach to it a real consequence.

Either make it a total fun-times exhibition like the Pro Bowl, or strip the rosters back down (to 28, say), cut the every-team requirement, and tell the managers to keep the starters in for as long as they want and play the game to win it.

by dajafi on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Congrats to Werth

I have no complaints that Werth is an All-Star. He is more deserving than Victorino, and both are having very good years. I think Kemp has an excellent case over both of them, but its certainly close.

I’m not a fan at all of all three Phillies’ OF being in the game over Matt Kemp, but those are the rewards for winning the NLCS.

by Eric Stephen on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with this completely, and I wanted Sandoval on the squad (though I do miss the days of the Giant’s offense being complete shite). It’s silly all 3 made the all-star team, and better yet, 5/8th of our lineup.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not really a matter of Werth-Sandoval IMO

(I am a Brewers fan so I have no dog in this fight.)

The real travesty (to Giants fans) was Howard getting in over Sandoval ,when Pablo has an OPS of about 100 points better, plays a tougher position, etc.

Once that homer-job was done by Manuel, that put 6 corner IF on the roster.

With Beltran not playing, I do think he had to take an OF with the replacement spot. (I will leave the Kemp-Werth debate alone.)

by badgermaniac on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I have no problem with any of the selections, but I’m not a fan of the “we won the World Series so we can have as many as we want.” That was last year. This is this year’s All Star game, based on this year.

by SJPhillyVT on Jul 10, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs