I agree with WholeCamels that this still can get done, but that we need to negotiate down from the Happ/Drabek package somehow. I find it hard to believe that if we substitute Carrasco, and compensate by adding Donald, d’Arnaud and maybe another prospect (Worley?), that the Jays would really pull the plug.

My best-case scenario is that we deal Happ, Taylor, Donald, and D’Arnaud for Halladay. If adding Carrasco brings in Scutaro as well, I’d happily take that too.

plus a couple of position prospects. The Phils need Halliday, but getting rid of Happ creates another hole in the rotation.

With Halladay on the team, Happ becomes almost a luxury. The rotation with them both:

Halladay/Hamels/Blanton/Happ/(Moyer/Martinez)

which means you have to send one of Pedro or Moyer to the bullpen, where neither of them are particularly helpful (though Pedro might be okay there).

If Happ is part of the trade, it’s:

Halladay/Hamels/Blanton/Moyer/Martinez

which is a slightly weaker rotation, but almost certainly not to the point that it would mean the difference between making the playoffs and not.

Then in the playoffs, you’re basically going with a three-man rotation anyway—the only way Pedro or Moyer gets a start is if the Phils are up 2-1 or 3-0 in a series. And you’ve got a loaded bullpen, hopefully strengthened by the addition of Myers as a setup guy, allowing Madson to do multi-inning stints.

Given that including Happ probably means saving one of the better prospects—ideally Drabek, who could step into the rotation as soon as next year—you have to do it.

No trade discussions ever get truly serious until warm buckets of spit and bags of balls are parts of the deal.

I’d prefer Taylor get dealt because of the whole logjam/age thing but surrendering Brown is OK.

Taylor, Happ, Carrasco, and Donald can go. A lower pitching prospect or one of two catching prospects can go if needed.

Scutaro coming back would be nice.

Right now, I believe that this deal to get Halliday WILL get done. JP needs to get this deal done because he has a proverbial “gun to his head” regarding trading Halliday where he needs to get some value for Roy before he becomes a free agent and he needs to get rid of that “albatross” of a salary around Toronto’s neck. Ruben and the Phils are in the “catbird’s seat” and they can play the “waiting game” and negotiate which prospects to offer the Jays. I, though, do not want the Phils to part with both Drabek and Happ, along with Dominic Brown. I am glad that the Phils are smart enough to carefully and judiciously weigh their prospects and options before initiiating a deal for Halliday.

Also, what is VERY IMPORTANT is that the Phils need to get an experienced, right – handed, power – hitting bat for the bench. Ruben, please get a right – handed, power – hitting bat to the bench just as the Cardinals added Matt Holliday from Oakland. Scour the free – agent market and players that certain teams are willing to unload.

I still think any Halladay trade should be made looking forward to 2010, not for 2009.

and we get him on the cheap. St Louis got Matt Holliday for a bucket of baseballs, didn’t they?

The Jays WANT to trade Halladay…don’t kid yourself. They just want to get the best package they can. Personally….I like a rotation of Hamels/Halladay/Happ/Blanton/Moyer with Pedro closing.

Pipe dream…I know.