Phillies Breakfast Links, July 9, 2009: Roy Halladay Sweepstakes, Shane Victorino's Big Week, Pity the Mets?

by WholeCamels on Jul 9, 2009 8:50 AM EDT

Phillies Notebook: Drabek one of Phillies' untouchable prospects?

Kyle Drabek, Dominic Brown, and Jason Knapp still untouchable?

Phillies express interest in Roy Halladay
Confirming what we all already knew.

Bill Conlin: Phillies should make prospect Taylor untouchable

Will the Phillies trade Michael Taylor, breaking Conlin's heart?

Paul Hagen: Big move possible but unlikely for Phils

I kind of object to his central thesis: That since the Phillies didn't make any huge moves in 2008, then they don't have to in 2009.

Giants' Sandoval has slim lead over Phillies' Victorino
I ask again: How do we verify the "closeness" of this? And have you ever noticed that they never say "Player X has an ENORMOUS lead in this thing! Stop voting!"?

Sympathy for poor Mets fans
This guy is all over the place here. I agree that the Phillies fans need to tone it down with the whole Mets hating thing since, well, the Phillies are the champs. And it's easy to write a cherry-picking article about a few isolated incidents. But the idea that the rivalry is "one-sided" is absurd. I'm a Philly ex-pat living in the New York metro area and I can assure you I get crap every single time I wear a Phillies hat or shirt out of the house. My dog has a Phillies collar and has not been allowed to play with other dogs due to same.

NAILED AT THE PLATE
Lenny Dykstra files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. I am shocked by this news...

Amaro: Phils have flexibility to make a deal
The Phillies are the "favorites" to get Roy Halladay. What a strange world this is for a Phillies fan: You're sitting on a Championship, your farm system is loaded, and you're one of the elite franchises in the game.

Akron blanks R-Phils 4-0
Michael Taylor also named Eastern League Player of the Month for June.

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Comments

Steve Phillips (yeah that guy) thinks Halladay goes to Dodgers or Phillies

He thinks it would cost the dodgers Clayton Kershaw.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions

I wouldn’t give up Kershaw for Halladay. It’s a sideways move at best.

Steve Phillips is a blubbering fool.

Crashburn Alley

by Crashburn Alley on Jul 9, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions

I am sending an email to David Murphy to use better numbers than ERA, batting average home runs and stolen bases. Let’s see if he responds to that.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 9, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions

He probably will but expect mentions of moms basement, meeting girls, and possible action figured

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Do you even know who David Murphy is?

by taco pal on Jul 9, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Used to play for the braves right?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Latter-Day Saint

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jul 9, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Thanks, but I’m jewish, we don’t do saints

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

“Magee” is Jewish?

by taco pal on Jul 9, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Your life must be quite blissful.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think they’re going to change their ways based on snarky e-mails. Murph has to write for a general sports audience; he’s going to lose readership if he whips out VORP and WAR and UZR/150 all of a sudden.

Crashburn Alley

by Crashburn Alley on Jul 9, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions

So there’s no middle ground between ERA HR BA and SB and VORP WAR and UZR/150?

Somehow I think there is

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions

The point is that it’s not his job to introduce and educate his readers on more advanced baseball metrics; his job is simply to report Phillies-related news and to sometimes opine on it.

I remember reading a Neyer column about how, when he first started sprinking OPS in his articles, he always had to explain what it was so his readers wouldn’t get lost. That’s what Murph would have to do, though not for OPS most likely. Given editors and word limits, it’d never work out.

Crashburn Alley

by Crashburn Alley on Jul 9, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry, but I don’t buy your argument. Maybe one of the reasons newspapers are dying is that along with technology outstripping them they aren’t keeping up with evolving things, such as the ‘new ways’ to look at baseball…not only do they not keep up – they deride it. If his ‘opining’ is based on out moded ways of thinking about the game – why should anyway care what his opinion is at all?

Just seems like you are making excuses for newspaper baseball writers staying 10-20 years behind the curve

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not defending it; I’m just telling you why most mainstream writers don’t use advanced stats. Also consider that most of them would have to make extra time to actually learn about the stats and to learn to use them properly and effectively.

Crashburn Alley

by Crashburn Alley on Jul 9, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

When ESPN starts using OBP it’s probably time for the writers to catch up…

Also consider that most of them would have to make extra time to actually learn about the stats and to learn to use them properly and effectively.

To me that would fall under the category of ‘doing your job’ – the scenarios you are describing to me just make me feel a whole lot less bad about papers losing circulations.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s not their job to learn about Sabermetrics. Their job is to report Phillies-related baseball news and sometimes opine on it.

When ESPN starts using OBP it’s probably time for the writers to catch up…

I was watching a classic game on MLB Network. I think it was from 1990. They had AVG, HR, RBI, OBP on the stats overlay. I was flabbergasted.

Crashburn Alley

by Crashburn Alley on Jul 9, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Is opine your word of the day?

If you arent up to date at least on things like OBP and OPS than your opine is as worthy as swine

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions

No need for OPS. OBP and SLG are common enough for people to know. Most people know OPS now anyway.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 9, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I find Murphy to be a mixed bag. Insightful at times, the opposite at others. He does seem like a pretty nice guy though, so I’m sure that if he responds it will be respectful.

I think Andy Martino is excellent, however.

by taco pal on Jul 9, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Let me just say that he responding in the least Conlin tone ever. Seems like a really good guy and sticks with the numbers he thinks his readers understand more than anything. The goal is to get them to understand at least a little more advanced metrics…

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 9, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions

So, everyone may have seen this already, but the Cardinals may be willing to offer whichever five players in their minor league system that Toronto chooses.

The Cardinals’ system isn’t great or anything, but I think that’s kind of ridiculous.

by taco pal on Jul 9, 2009 10:30 AM EDT reply actions

Woops, forgot the link.

by taco pal on Jul 9, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Conlin writes

Or can be overwhelmed by a Red Sox package that includes perennial pitching prospect Taylor Buchholz. That Taylor they can have.

If the Rockies offered Taylor Buchholz for Halladay, I can’t imagine that would get it done. A Red Sox package including Clay Buchholz, on the other hand…

This isn’t even on Ol’ One Chair so much as the evidently somnambulant (or laid off?) Daily News editor. I mean, c’mon.

by dajafi on Jul 9, 2009 10:47 AM EDT reply actions

Ha, that’s great. Of course the Taylor/Taylor thing wouldn’t have worked then. Maybe the editor took a calculated risk that no one would notice.

As for Michael Taylor, maybe Conlin loves him because they’re so similar in weight, if not in the distribution thereof. (I know weight jokes about Conlin may be passe, but hey.)

by taco pal on Jul 9, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions

"poor Mets fans"

…their historic rivalry with the Mets – which, by the way, exists only in the minds of Phillies fans…

This guy is pretty off-base. Like WC, I live in Mets-land—Brooklyn—and while I can’t really report being hassled for wearing Phillies attire except in the vicinity of Shea/Citi Field, I can tell you that Mets fans (and, I think, the team itself) seem far more obsessed with the Phils than vice-versa. They hate us, and the reason why seems to be that we’ve poked at their historical sore spot (a feeling of innate, inevitable inferiority to the Yankees) with both the collapses of the last two Septembers and the baffling—but, from our perspective, wonderful—series of taint-kick, comeback wins over the last three seasons.

by dajafi on Jul 9, 2009 11:14 AM EDT reply actions

Good point that I forgot about...

“Remember when the Phillies tried to get Barry Zito? Who did Oakland want? Cole Hamels and Chase Utley, that’s who. This team would be the Nationals without Cole and Chase. Keep the untouchables untouchable.” from the http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Amaro-Phils-have-flexibility-to-make-a-deal?urn=mlb,175626&cp=2#comments comments

Travis A. Mount
Penn State University 2010
BS Candidate: Industrial Engineering
Treasurer, Institute of Industrial Engineering
Public Relations Manager, The Pennharmonics
http://ThePennharmonics.com
http://ILovePSU.com

by tam5070 on Jul 9, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions

Um, apples and oranges, we can bring up trades the phils didn’t make that would have made the team better, even today by strengthening both the catching and 3rd base position (for instance)…so what? That was thien, this is now, the situations are different, and carrasco or happ or even drabek don’t project right now to where hamels was projected back then.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

point taken

But a lot of people project (or have been hoping) that Drabek would actually become the ace of this squad ahead of hollywood by the end of next year or sometime in 2011. Just thoughts. I still want Halladay and RAj should be willing to sell the farm.

3 WS in a row? Yes Please.

by tam5070 on Jul 9, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry, but what people have been spouting drabek as ace stuff? Just curios as I don’t remember reading it, and saying ‘well cole suffered injuries too’ doesn’t hold water as Tommy John surgery is slightly different than what hamels went through.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

It has been riddled all over forums, but just google “drabek ace” and see how many other people have been thinking it. Theres columns like http://www.examiner.com/x-1164-Philadelphia-Phillies-Examiner~y2009m6d26-If-Kyle-Drabek-emulates-his-dad-Phils-have-an-aceinwaiting too. I just don’t think hamels is an ace. He’s the best we’ve got, and he can be relaxed in his element, as we all saw in the playoffs. But if things go wrong lately, they go really wrong for him.

by tam5070 on Jul 9, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions

Um…sure…whatever you say.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Speculation about being a big league ace, and actually becoming one, are two entirely different things.

He’s an exciting pitcher, yes, but he has like six games above Class A.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jul 9, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions

But I mean Hamels isn’t even an ace right?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Duh, If you’re an ace you can’t lose regular season games, ever. Playoff performance is overrated.

by FredEx on Jul 9, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Projection

Mets fans spent a couple years thinking they were great rivals with the Braves, a ‘rivalry’ that was truly one sided.

Maybe he means one sided because we’ve beaten them the last two years? Not the most well written piece ever.

by EastFallowfield on Jul 9, 2009 12:17 PM EDT reply actions

Should be attached to "Poor Mets Fans" above...

but it isn’t

by EastFallowfield on Jul 9, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Lenny…

poor dude…

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Jul 9, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions

well, from a baseball perspective I loved him as part of that epic ‘93 team. And I don’t expect him to be some kind of a role model. But I felt at the time the acclaim that he was getting as a stock picker was really strange, and in retrospect it was the sign of a great bubble about to burst.

For the time he was a Phillie, he was a helluva good time. But trying to replicate the ethos of Macho Row in a business setting makes him look like a pathetic clown. And I confess to fair bit of economic rage toward guys who fritter away vast sums of money without anything to show for it. At least Moyer and his wife support a large family.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 9, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Curt Simmons

I have been reading the articles that you people post about the farm system and pitching.
I watched both Roberts and Simmons pitch many times. I thought on any given day Simmons was a better pitcher than Roberts. Roberts lasted a lot longer and deserves him position in baseball. Simmons had things happen to him that caused gaps in his career. Getting drafted into the military was one. The lawnmower incident with his toe was another. I thought his motion was never the same after that. He had some bad seasons at the end of his Phillies career, when his arm went dead. He won about 90 games during his Phillies career and about 70 after he left. His record against the Phillies was 17-3. He went from a power pitcher to a finesse pitcher after his arm gave out. You people pour over statistics about this pitcher and that pitcher. Most pitchers are either a power pitcher or a finesse pitcher. The best pitchers are power pitchers with finesse. Obviously, finesse pitchers last longer. Any power pitcher in the farm system should be able to become a power pitcher with finesse, given enough time. Patience is a virtue with pitchers in the farm system. Most teams don’t seem to have that anymore and neither do the fans. Fans now a days want instant gratifiction. Working with players in the farm system takes time, just like fermenting a fine wine.

by fan since late 40's on Jul 9, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions

WIP

So the lunch show just finished and I put up with about 10 minutes of Howard Eskin before realizing like I do everyday, that he is everything I despise in a radio host. But he said that the Phillies have “basically stated that they’re not trading for Halladay; That Halladay is not coming to Philadelphia.”

Not sure where he heard it but he usually has substantiated sources as a radio journalist.

"I can play anywhere; First, Third, Left field, anywhere but Philadelphia." - Dick Allen
http://www.travismount.net

by tam5070 on Jul 9, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions

He usually talks out of his racist ass

In regards to Drabek, untouchable, a ‘dissenting’ opinion

Shawn (Philly)
It’s been reported that the Phillies consider Kyle Drabek untouchable. If that’s the case, is there any combination of prospects not including him that could entice the Jays to trade Halladay to the Phils?
Keith Law
Sticking with a theme – how stupid is that? Drabek isn’t even good enough to be “untouchable” (great stuff, already blew out his elbow, fair delivery at best, makeup questions dating back to HS), but more to the point, you’re talking about acquiring one of the top 5 starters in baseball – maybe the top starter in baseball – for a year and a half. You don’t designate a AA pitcher as “untouchable” if you’re serious about acquiring Doc.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Jul 9, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions