Demote Lidge, promote Ho?
by jonk on Aug 15, 2009 7:12 PM EDT
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Obviously we have to do something about him. I still like him, but the dude is a total basketcase right now. Afraid to throw strikes and when he does, they go over the wall.
Any chance we wanna try Chan Ho as a closer? I am shocked myself saying this, but the closer role is overrated and Chan Ho has been pretty good in the pen...
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Hmmm..How bout Smoltz?
For Who? My teammates.
For What? To Win.
How Much? Where do I sign?
by jonk on Aug 15, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This is a name I think the phils really should consider. I read something this week about he was pretty good in his first two innings, first time around, this year in boston…and he has the experience closing…and it would also be nice to prevent the Dodgers from getting him.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Aug 16, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Moyer & Kendrick were also good in their first few innings
they usually got blown up in the fourth or fifth.. just because they get the first three outs easily does not mean they can get the last three outs just as easily, totally different situations
by sports00fan00 on Aug 18, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d use the Choppa for 2-inning saves when he’s fresh, and Madson with whoever setting up the rest of the time. I’d like to see Mathieson on the team soon.
On second thought
I’d use Madson for 2-inning saves as well.
What I was getting at was that CHoP is very valuable right now because he’s not only lights-out but he’s able to go two or three innings at a time, and moving him to a 9th-inning-only closer role would open up a huge hole in middle relief/setup. But a little more creative deployment, and sharing of the “closer” role between him and Madson, would mitigate this to a large degree.
No
Given that, I’d prefer Madson as the closer.
I think the way it’s gone when Lidge struggled closing in Houston was that whoever managed the Astros at the time would briefly demote him to setup, he’d get his confidence back, and then he’d resume closing.
If you take him, Manuel and the medical staff at their collective word that he’s physically fine, there’s no explanation other than what’s between his ears. I think Lidge is unusually intelligent for a closer, maybe for any kind of ballplayer; his failures stay with him. I don’t consider it a want of mental toughness, more like a temporary loss of perspective. Ease the pressure for a couple weeks and watch him come back strong.
As I and others have noted, though, to take Moyer out of his job for poor performance (which was absolutely the right move) while giving Lidge unlimited rope, is just hypocritical. He shouldn’t be closing for this team right now.
FOOL ME ONCE... FOOL ME 13 TIMES??????
BradLidge was amazing last year. His consistency was unprecedented in a Philies uniform. He deserved a certain amount of loyalty based upon that status. But 5 losses, 8 blown saves, an ERA of 7+ means a trip to the minors to get it together.
I remember many years ago the Phils trading for a White Sox pitcher ( can’t recall the name….) who had thrown a no hitter the prior year, and was rather excited to have that “quality” added to a weak staff. Unfortunately he lost his command and could never find the strike zone again. Within a year he had gone from No Hitter glory to out of baseball.
41 for 41 warrants some loyalty but not unending disaster—as the “death toll” is at 13 and counting an alternative is clearly needed,
Not 13 times
If you look at 5 losses and 8 blown saves and think that means 13 bad outings or 13 losses for the team, that’s not the case. Four of the five losses are already counted among the 8 blown saves. And in the four blown saves that were not losses by Lidge, the Phillies won three and lost one. Blowing saves is one of the risks every closer faces, and six times the team has suffered tough losses due to Lidge’s failings. But except for the back-to-back blown save & loss/blown save vs. the Dodgers on 6/5 & 6/6 the bad losses have been fairly well spread out: April 18th vs. Padres (Blown save/loss); May 23rd vs. Yankees (Blown save/loss); June 5th-6th vs. Dodgers; July 7th vs. Reds (9th-inning loss); and yesterday vs. the Braves (Blown save/loss). How does the team respond to Lidge’s bad outings – does it put them in a tailspin and make them more susceptible to losing the division? Hardly. Here are some follow-up numbers after the four previous failures: won 7 out of 9 after the Padres game; won 9 out of 11 after the Yankees game; won 3 out of 4 after the Dodgers game before the interleague interruption; and won 10 straight after the Reds game. This team does not fall apart after a bad game by Lidge. I think we need to keep that in mind when claims are made about how much Lidge is hurting the team, or what a disaster his presence is.
by phillyinportland on Aug 16, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let the starters pitch longer!!!!!!!!!
Carlton, Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, etc., etc. are some of the greatest pitchers ever and they completed 20-40 games every year. Our aces complete 2 or 3 every year. When did hitters become that much better that we need to sub lesser pitchers to finish games?? When did the pitchers become such pansies that they can’t throw over 100 pitches in a game??? I think pulling the starters stinks in most cases BUT, since I am not in charge I vote for Chan Ho Park to be the closer, at least until he starts to screw up!!!! And for the guy that thinks Lidge isn’t as bad as he seems, maybe you should look at how many runs he has given up in the saves he does have and how many times he has put the winning run on base only to get the batter out on a 409 foot fly ball to the warning track in dead center!!!!
1. They lowered the mound.
2. Every technological advance in the sport in the past 40 years has favored hitters.
3. The ball is probably juiced to some extent.
4. Parks have been built smaller (“more intimate for better fan experience”).
5. Every hitter in the lineup can jack a home run now. It’s not like pitchers can ease up against the .210 hitting shortstop these days. They have to go 100% against every single batter.
6. Sandy Koufax’s career was over when he was friggin’ 30! That’s a terrible example.
7. For every Carlton, Drysdale, Gibson, Roberts, etc., how many talented pitchers were there that you never hear about because their arms were blown out throwing 140 pitches in the minor leagues? That’s not natural selection, that’s idiocy.
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