Who gets in more trouble: Charlie or Lidge?

by Blkfire on Aug 26, 2009 12:10 AM EDT

Another Brad Lidge save opportunity, another bitter pill to swallow. One doesn't even need to see tomorrows interviews to know that Charlie Manuel, when asked why he continues to go to Lidge, will answer "He is my closer." I would love, LOVE, to believe that Charlie is holding out for Brett Myers to return to the team so he can be given a chance at the closer role, but right now that would be hard to believe. Fans and media alike are second-guessing Charlie's decisions to continue to throw his support behind Lidge as a closer and it will continue to get worse ever time he chooses him over another pitcher. When does enough become enough? Nine blown saves....nine wins. Even if the Phillies manage to make the playoffs this year, who do they turn to in the last inning to hold down a lead? It is too late in the season to be having this kind of problem, especially for a team leading the division. I could run down the list of pitchers in the bullpen who could be given a chance to close, but what's the point. So at this point, what do you do if you're Charlie Manuel? How much longer do you stick with your closer? Who do you put in to nail down these wins? I'm no pro when it comes to baseball, but there is one thing I am sure about. Brad Lidge, for this 2009 season, is not an effective closer and I cannot continue to put faith in his ability, hoping he will show that form from 2008. Whatever has gone wrong with his stuff, it has gone terribly wrong and he is dragging down his teammates and his team with him. I hope I'm not the only one noticing that the Phillies defense gets pretty sloppy behind Lidge, like they're trying too hard to cover for his mistakes or something. I don't know. Hopefully something will be resolved in this situation, that's what I have to believe.

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And heeeeeeeeerrreeeeeessssss Charlie

Charlie Manuel’s postgame comment on Brad Lidge:

“We just keep going. We just keep playing,” Manuel said. “That’s where we’re at. That’s our closer. That’s the guy we give the ball to in the ninth inning.”

Yes Charlie, we know he’s the guy you give the ball to in the ninth inning. The question is ‘Is there anyone else who’s not sucking right now that you could give the ball to in the ninth?’

Always put off today what can be put off tomorrow.
-Blkfire

by Blkfire on Aug 26, 2009 12:53 AM EDT reply actions

Is that your honest opinion? That this team is now in danger of not making the playoffs because of the closer situation? Sure, it would be nice to have an even bigger division lead. But I can’t remember any time where my thoughts about a team with a 7-game lead that had gone 24-13 since the All-Star game began, “even if (they) manage to make the playoffs.”

by phillyinportland on Aug 26, 2009 2:11 AM EDT reply actions

Nothing is guaranteed during the regular season, period. So yes, I’m standing by my comment of ‘even if they manage to make the playoffs.’ Until their magic number is 0 that should be the case. I never take it for granted that the Phillies are up in the division. Do I think the Phillies can win the division? Absolutely!!! However, you will never hear me say that they are going to the playoffs unless, well, they are actually in the playoffs. I shouldn’t even need to mention the fact that the Mets know good and well that no division lead is safe.

Now, the context to why I said that in the first place is not because I think that Brad Lidge and his poor performance will cost the Phillies the division. The issue is if OR when the Phillies make the playoffs and Lidge is still blowing saves, still losing games, do you depend on him to close out a one-run game? I want the Phillies to be successful, I want Lidge to be successful, but when does enough become enough?

Always put off today what can be put off tomorrow.
-Blkfire

by Blkfire on Aug 26, 2009 7:42 AM EDT reply actions

nine games, nine wins?

Not to be picky or anything, but not all of lidge’s blown saves resulted in losses, so the team did manage to win some of the nine games in which he had blown saves, so it is not accurate to say there would have been an opportunity to have won nine more games had lidge not blown those saves because the phils did win some of them in extras, or bottom of the ninth.

by PhilsForever on Aug 26, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions

I’m apparently bad at blogs because everything I write needs clarification. I know the Phillies still got acouple wins out of those blown saves. What I was pointing out is that Lidge in his position has had nine opportunities to preserve the win for the team. I know that Lidge is responsible for six losses out of the nine blown saves, but when you look right at it he blew nine Phillies win opportunities, regardless of if the Phillies came back to win it or not. I feel that is accurate enough to say. Lidge does his job on those blown saves and that is nine wins, no way around it.

Always put off today what can be put off tomorrow.
-Blkfire

by Blkfire on Aug 26, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I respect your frustration over Lidge’s inability to put away games and it’s indeed worrisome in important games if you’re not able to rely on someone in the bullpen to close out the one- and two-run victories. What I see happening with Lidge is that he needs to keep on getting the ball enough times in close games that he can regain his confidence, his edge, because there have been enough times when he’s fine that I think it’s mostly mental with him now. The team is fortunate that it’s in a position where a few blown games (probably) isn’t going to cost them the division title. And, for what it’s worth, I do believe Lidge is a valued member of a team, a group of players that knows exactly what he went through in all those pressure-packed situations last year and in his recuperation from injuries this year. And it’s the team that will determine how far they go this year, not one player. We all have our own perspective on what we think will work best. I happen to think it’s better to challenge Lidge to do well and deal with the results that brings than to upset the entire team concept by dumping Lidge with less than 40 games to go in the season. I’m guessing that barring an injury we will continue to see Lidge until October and then we can all see how it works out.

by phillyinportland on Aug 27, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions

that doesn’t account for games which he entered and poured gas on the fire which weren’t save situations and the phillies lost (I count 4 such games).

by Bilzo on Aug 26, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions