Phillies Breakfast Links, August 26, 2009: Late Closers, The Starters' Line, How to Wear a Cap

by WholeCamels on Aug 26, 2009 8:04 AM EDT

Lidge, Phillies suffer tough walk-off loss
Again, I ask Charlie Manuel at what point loyalty to one guy turns into betrayal of the other 24.

Phillies Notebook: Phillies' starting pitchers not half-bad since All-Star break
Closing pitchers, not so much. Also of note: Michael Taylor goes on the D.L., season likely over. And what a season it was.

Brett Myers to pitch inning for Reading Phillies tonight
I wonder how the guys wear their caps in Reading. Old Man Myers, a.k.a. "The Confederate Kid," might yell at them!

Lee: NL Cy Young belongs elsewhere
Kind of a silly question, although I would have loved it if Lee had said: "NO I WANT IT! IT SHOULD BE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE!!"

Phillies Notes: Stairs wants to return to Phillies in 2010
Maybe he can get another base hit before then?

The Evolution of Jayson Werth
It's really a tribute to Pat Gillick's "educated instincts" that he picked Jayson Werth off of the scrap heap. He's really been a remarkable player for this team.

R-Phils rally for win over Erie

"All I can say is breaks," said Reading manager Steve Roadcap. "We didn't catch a break at all in New Britain. Everything went against us. These guys laugh because I talk about Uncle Momentum. Uncle Mo kind of jumped in our dugout and it kept on going."

I had an Uncle Mo, and I needed some expensive therapy thanks to him.

The Fightins " R.I.P. Brad Lidge, Phillies Closer (April 6, 2008 – August 25, 2009)
A touching, if not 100% sincere, tribute to 2008 hero Brad Lidge.

Battered NY Mets get more bad injury news as Johan Santana, J.J. Putz both go down
Time for the Mets to take a really close look at their training staff, I think.

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Lidge options

He’s just killing us. The lynch mob is growing by the day. Grab your torches and pitchforks. Far more infuriating, however, is Manuel’s mantra that “he’s our guy.”
But don’t get mad at Charlie— yet. Charlie has shown he has brass balls this year in his dealings with Park, Moyer, and Rollins. He’s not afraid to take action if someone is underperforming IF he has another option. The question is what’s that option? Try Madson again? Eyre? Wait for Myers? Send Lidge to the DL or a shrink? Park? Closer by committee?

I’m sure Charlie’s working on an answer. But let’s hope it comes soon. It’s getting real hard to watch Lidge take the ball with a one run lead.

I was considering grabbing my pitchfork and flying to Pittsburgh to join the gathering lynch mob last night. But last night’s anger has given way to a more sobering and vexing question— what’s our other option?

by Boundforbeach on Aug 26, 2009 8:26 AM EDT reply actions

Except that Lidge has been underperforming most of the year and is probably still injured, but sure, bust out more Cliches to excuse this inaction.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 26, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions

“what’s our other option?”

Madson? Park? Pedro? Walker? Bruntlett? ANYONE

by SJPhillyVT on Aug 26, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Matt Stairs.

How funny would it be if Stairs or Bruntlett came out of nowhere and became awesome closers?

It would be very welcoming as humor goes.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Aug 26, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

One thing's for sure about Lidge

He won’t be pitching tonight or probably even tomorrow, even if it’s a save situation. He’s pitched four days in a row, so he needs rest.

by David S. Cohen on Aug 26, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions

hmm,,,

Has Lidge pitched worse in back-to-back games this season? If so, could that be evidence of some nagging injury? Would it help matters at all if, in lieu of demoting him altogether, Charlie made a rule that he couldn’t pitch consecutive games for the rest of the season?

by taco pal on Aug 26, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions

If not injury, in a technical sense, I would be willing to bet (not literally) that Lidge has some sort of physical ailment that is causing him some trouble. The inconsistency (ie, sometimes he does actually have good stuff) seems to lead to this conclusion.

by Whack8888 on Aug 26, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions

4 for 11 in 1-run save situations on the season. If Charlie wants to be loyal, fine. Let him try to work 2 and 3 run leads. But sending him out there in 1-run games at this point means that we have a 64% chance of losing or going to extras. That’s downright absurd. It’s like playing Russian Roulette with a gun with only 1 empty chamber. I don’t know how in the face of those numbers, Charlie can continue to send him out there. It absolutely bewilders me.

by FuquaManuel on Aug 26, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions

One thing to keep in mind about the Lidge situation, is that given the lead in the NL east, it is not entirely stupid for Charlie to keep going back to Lidge to try and get him turned around. We may feel more confident with a closer by committee or Madson or someone else at this point, but come playoff time, a performing Lidge is far superior to the alternatives. His blown save last night was particularly disappointing though, it wasnt even close. At the same time, it was his 4th consecutive game and he didnt look too terrible in the previous 3 (though maybe I am not recalling things correctly). I would say give him two days off, and do a closer by committee with an emphasis on Lidge for a couple of weeks and see how that goes. If Lidge has pitched the previous game, dont put him in, otherwise he is the closer. If Lidge cant get it done with a lighter workload, I would say go with closer by committee and without Lidge, and maybe Myers or Pedro can be worked in a few spots, or we can just rely on the committee for the rest of the year.

by Whack8888 on Aug 26, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions

I think the lead is the key element. If Lidge isn’t injured, I understand wanting to get him worked out, although it’s debatable whether it’s worse for him to continue failing in save situations or get demoted. Given how bad he’s been, though, there’s no way to justify him pitching in close games that would mean a lot more if the division were close.

by phila on Aug 26, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes, hopefully we can give some benefit of the doubt to Charlie that even if the lead drops to like 5 games up (or even now) the experimenting and trying to work out kinks stuff will end. There is really no need to drop Lidge off a cliff or something like that though, they should still try and get him worked out as it would be very valuable for the playoffs. But at this point, or at least real soon, real game experience is not as plentiful commodity as we all would hope it was.

I am a little worried that Charlie is going to shoot for the stars, ie, he is going to keep going back with Lidge despite lots of failure because he has grandiose visions of Lidge being lights out in the playoffs and saving like 4 games in the World Series and then everyone thinks Charlie is a genius. Charlie doesnt seem like a guy who really cares about being called a genius at all, but pride and stuff can do weird things to otherwise rational people ;)

by Whack8888 on Aug 26, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

if you enact the “no back to back games” rule….then what happens if he blows the lead in his “first” game. Wouldn’t not pitching him the next day still screw with his confidence?

I’m being silly here….but that’s the whole point of this. If the guy is hurting you, you don’t let him keep hurting you at the expense of the team. HE HAS THE WORST ERA IN MLB for a reliever, and it’s not like he had one bad outing or only 20 IP. Shut him down, now. At this point, anybody on the roster who is a pitcher is a better option.

by Bilzo on Aug 26, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

brewers have put trevor hoffman on waivers, might be interesting for the right price

by asmallvictory31 on Aug 26, 2009 3:38 PM EDT reply actions

No way he clears

No way he clears to the Phillies (who are ranked last). His ERA+ is 223. Compare that to Lidge’s 59.

by David S. Cohen on Aug 26, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Didn’t the sox claim wagner? and thus would move to the ‘end’?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 26, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

He has to go through the NL first anyway.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Aug 26, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Ah I did not know it worked like that – i’m so used to ‘fantasy’ waiver wires that constantly change order…based on previous claims and such.

I could see the dodgers claiming hoffman, not just to screw the phils but maybe to strengthen their pen as well…

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 26, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I know the Dodger have some bullpen issues and maybe they want Hoffman – I have no idea – but I really doubt they would claim him to screw the Phillies, because I can’t imagine adding Trevor Hoffman to the Phillies. The bullpen already has a handful of names awaiting possible return, like Myers, Romero, Condrey. Unless you suddenly find yourself short of bodies I don’t see the Phillies having any interest in Hoffman. Both Lidge and Madson would basically be told you’re not making it as our closer, so we’re bringing in a replacement right before the September 1st roster deadline. I may be wrong, but that doesn’t sound likely to me.

by phillyinportland on Aug 27, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions