Dusty Baker killing more young pitchers?

by jonk on Aug 3, 2009 9:52 PM EDT

Edison Volquez is getting Tommy John and is Johnny Cueto next?

Cueto's ERA has been going up since the Phils destroyed him in early July. He is just 23 years old and his pitch count looks like this:

109
88
108
98
109
98
100
112
111
104
101
111
110

After his 7th straight game of 100 or more pitches, and his ERA at 2.17, he started getting crushed.

82 pitches 5 ER
95 pitches 5 ER
108 pitched 0 ER
49 pitches 9 ER
101 pitches 4 ER
108 pitches 3 ER
105 pitches 4 ER
96 pitched 6 ER

ERA for July is 8.16 and his season ERA is now 4.06. Baker is turning these guys into Woods and Prior. Someone stop him before it's too late.

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Comments

Jason Schmidt

Baker rode him like a rented mule in SF and the Dodger’s are paying for it. Thus far it’s cost them 39M for 3 wins over the past 2 1/2 years.

by Steve-O- on Aug 5, 2009 1:25 AM EDT reply actions

Those pitch counts are nothing like Mark Prior’s and Kerry Wood’s down the stretch in 2003. Routinely over 120, several games over 130. I remember a few years back when Cubs fans told me Prior was a wimp, a hypochondriac, etc.

They rode him hard at USC and then with the Cubs and never let up. Maybe he was destined to have the injuries he had, maybe not, but a safer approach is certainly the smart way to go.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 5, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions

True, Prior’s September was ridiculous.

131
129
109
124
131
133

All at 22 years old.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Aug 5, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions

How much does pitch count per game matter, compared to total pitch count?

I’m curious because Prior threw a total of 3,399 pitches in 2003, with a pace of 3,851 pitches per 162 games. Last year, Hamels threw 3,421, at a pace of 3,524/162. So far this season, Cueto’s thrown 2,209 pitches, at a pace of 3,408/162.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Aug 5, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions

To be fair, you could have scheduled Volquez’ surgery date last year. I mean, look at how he throws… The guy had “Tommy John here” tatooed on his elbow.

by philiafan14364 on Aug 5, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions

But people praised (and even wrote books about!) Mark Prior’s “perfect mechanics” and look what happened.

Not that bad mechanics don’t make you more susceptible to injury, but “eyeballing” pitchers is far from a definitive way to assess injury risk.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 5, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Mark Prior’s mechanics are, in fact, pretty horrible. He has a timing problem due to the way he winds up that puts unnecessary stress on his elbow and shoulder.
This guy has documented it pretty thoroughly. I am convinced.

by FuquaManuel on Aug 5, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Aren’t Tim Lincecum’s mechanics pretty bad?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 5, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions

They're different

but I believe they are designed to take stress off of his elbow by leveraging the rest of his body. Not a mechanics expert though, that is just how I’ve heard them described.

"It was almost like if Harry didn't call it, it wasn't real." - Jayson Stark

by Chris Haines on Aug 6, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Someone needs to set up a ‘baseball court’ and try people…present the evidence….let fans vote…

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 5, 2009 10:38 PM EDT reply actions

If the fans voted, there would be no justice.

by FuquaManuel on Aug 6, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions

there is no justice
anywhere
at any time

sorry

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 6, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions

nihilism? relativism? or just general jerky contrarianism?

and is that a haiku?

by Steve J on Aug 7, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Speaking as a Reds fan, I don't see the blame falling on Dusty

One concern with both Cueto and Volquez coming into the year was they pitched in the WBC. Cueto, and maybe Volquez too, also threw in winter ball. Fatigue was going to come at some point, but I don’t think the relatively modest pitch counts shown above are the primary cause of Cueto’s slump. I expected him to fall back from his hot start anyways – he’s streaky and gets in a lot of trouble when he can’t keep his fastball down. He’s also admitted recently to pressing too much because he’s not getting any run support.

Edinson’s a tougher case because he threw more innings last year (196). But he’s bigger and a couple of years older than Cueto, and at some point you have to see if a guy can be a 200 IP type of horse. From a pitch-count perspective, he wasn’t abused nearly to the extent of Prior or Wood back in ’03. His highest pitch-count game was 121.

Plenty of other things to blame on Dusty. Willy Taveras leading off, for example.

by ken on Aug 7, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions