What's the Happs?: Phillies 7, Rockies 0

by WholeCamels on Aug 5, 2009 9:34 PM EDT

Tonight, J.A. Happ didn't just make his case for staying in the rotation. He hired a skywriter, took out a full-page ad in the Inquirer, and hired Atticus Finch to represent him. J.A. Happ lost a well-deserved rotation spot in the spring, and he wasn't about to lose it again.

Happ twirled a gem, a complete game four-hit shutout against the very hot, great hitting Colorado Rockies, and the Phillies bats came through finally, slamming three home runs, as the Phillies defeated the Rockies 7-0 in South Philadelphia.

Jimmy Rollins, Pedro Feliz, and Jayson Werth all went deep for the Phillies in support of Happ, who struck out 10 Rockies and walked only two.

Can you put this guy in the bullpen now? Really? Really really?

Now, your Debbie Downer Report:

I would be remiss if I didn't mention Happ's final pitch count of 127. He sat at 110 after eight innings with a seven run lead. It was completely unnecessary to send him out there for the ninth inning. Hopefully there won't be any lingering effects of tonight's heavy pitch load. I'd hate to see another one of these.

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We would be crazy to put in in the pen

Look, I love Moyer and know he doesn’t want to go to the pen, or worse yet be released, but he’s gotta go. Pedro seems like he’s doing ok, we’ll see how he does when he comes up, but the Phillies would be crazy to put Haap in the pen with his sucess as a starter. Its a great dilema to have, but the choice on who to the pen can’t involve ja

July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!

by phillybmore on Aug 5, 2009 9:41 PM EDT reply actions

noo

put happ in the pen now .. get him used to being in there and pitching everyday .. hes not going to pitch in the playoffs anyways .. lee hamels blanton .. pedro or moyer may get one start .. but its going to be a 3 man rotation .. put happ in there now .. plus hes gotta be on a pitch count for the season .. hes going to break down soon .. and his stuff is not that good .. he projects as a 4th starter

by jack is better than asante on Aug 6, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Moyer projects as a front line starter on an over 40 beer league softball team.

by FredEx on Aug 6, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions

put happ in the pen now?

jibta, you can’t be serious. we NEED to keep him as a starter. why?

he has an era of 2.739 (#7 in nl)
he pitched two complete games (#7 in nl)
he has two cg shutouts (which makes him tied in the nl with your boy, lincecum) (#1 in nl)
.800 win-loss record (#2 in nl)
1.122 walks/hits per inning pitched (#7 in nl)
7.2 hits per 9 innings pitched (#7 in nl)

this guy is going to be a starter for a while. he is the future. to bench him for a short-term shot in the dark named pedro martinez would be foolish.

by awd777 on Aug 6, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions

let me ask you this

are they going to trust happ to start in the playoffs? hamels lee blanton .. maybe one spot start from pedro or moyer depending on the series .. but its going to be 3 pitchers mostly .. and having another arm in the pen is going to help .. happ is a future 4 at best .. his stuff is not that good .. the same could of been said about kendrick too .. next year your lookin at lee hamels blanton drabek if hes ready .. all better options than happ

by jack is better than asante on Aug 6, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s such a good day – why must you make me so sad?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 6, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

maybe one spot start from pedro or moyer depending on the series

If they trust either of them, why wouldn’t you trust Happ?

He’s been better than Moyer and can throw more than 5 solid innings.

by FredEx on Aug 6, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Re-posted from last thread...

I understand the concern, but I agree with BP on this: the pendulum has swung too far the other direction. We’ve got a banged-up bullpen, and Happ didn’t really labor at any point tonight, so why not let him finish it out? They were ready to yank him if need be. 120 pitches should be a rule of thumb, not an ironclad rule.

by PhillyFriar on Aug 5, 2009 9:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

I think BP are trying to be contrarians. Here’s the thing, it can’t hurt him to come out, but it could hurt him to stay in. That is all I need to know in a 7-0 game that isn’t even a MUST win. Maybe if the Phils were 4 games back or this was a playoff game. We have a ton of junk in the pen we could throw out there for 1 inning.

BP looks way too simplistically at this. It’s not about pitch counts, it’s about game situation, and the game situation shows that you are safe to pull him to ensure he won’t get hurt.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Aug 5, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Happ’s last 12 games:

112
106
108
109
100
104
104
103
107
90
100
127

That is a lot of games of over 100 pitches. Not sure how I feel about it.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Aug 5, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Do you, or anyone, know where to get his pitch counts from his minor league games? Maybe (hopefully) it isnt all that out of the ordinary for him to pitch 100+ pitches in a hefty amount of games over the course of the season.

To be fair, also, the bull pen has been having a hell of a time with injuries so far this year, so the move isnt totally idiotic.

by Whack8888 on Aug 5, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Over 100 isn't anything to be unduly concerned about.

120 is the warning line. If my computer wasn’t in the shop (I’m on my phone right now) I’d try to hunt down that BP article.

by PhillyFriar on Aug 5, 2009 10:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Well, BP talks about PAP that start to accrue after 110 pitches, but does that mean it HAS to be 110? Do that mean that a pitcher can throw 109 every game and be ok? I am not too worried, but after 10 of 11 games of over 100 he then throws 127, that concerns me. Gives me flashbacks of Wolf against Chicago 6 years ago where he threw like 137 pitches and wasn’t the same again (I think he had one more decent start after that).

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Aug 5, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Link fail.

by FuquaManuel on Aug 5, 2009 9:47 PM EDT reply actions

done fixeded it

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 5, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions

What’s Happening would have worked. Could have played like Rerun of Toronto or something.

For Who? My teammates.

For What? To Win.

How Much? Where do I sign?

by jonk on Aug 5, 2009 9:52 PM EDT reply actions

Washington won again, yippee

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 5, 2009 10:08 PM EDT reply actions

If Jamie Moyer really is such the ‘great guy’ everyone says he is – he should volunteer to withdraw from the rotation cause right now he IS the worst of the five starting pitchers

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 5, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions

I agree but a different way. I think IF he really cares about the team, he will go to Charlie and say his shoulder hurts and needs to get some rest. That way we have our cake and can eat it too IF things backfire. But, if Moyer does not “help” out, I am not so sure this will turn out pretty.

by DeanH on Aug 6, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions

no way

moyer is old .. he is only here to win a championship .. the money is not important .. he needs to be in the rotation .. and happ isnt much better than moyer .. happ doesnt have great stuff. . hes been lucky

by jack is better than asante on Aug 6, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions

He won a championship last year, he’s pitching terrible, the best thing he can do to help the phillies win a championship is go on the DL or go to the pen – he’ll get a ring if they won no mattaer what.

And as for Happ being lucky – he might be – but they doesn’t change that he’s better than moyer right now – i mean for people who are capable of rational thought

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 6, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions

I can see some sceptics for Happ (most of his wins are against below .500 teams) but he pitched a gem last night. It appears that after each start, he is getting stronger and better.

Moyer is fading and needs to take one for the team. Be a man, be a team player, face the facts you are a Dino, time to go out to pasture……

by DeanH on Aug 6, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t care much about his wins or losses, I care about how he pitches, against whatever team he’s pitching against, and it seems that Happ is better than moyer right now.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 6, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Maybe Happ is a 1950’s type pitcher, or Charlie is a 1950’s type manager, or both.

by fan since late 40's on Aug 5, 2009 11:25 PM EDT reply actions

Alcoholics on speed who think women belong in the kitchen?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 6, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions

1950s era manager

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 6, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Is that a hate crime in progress?

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 6, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

a few thoughts

I didn’t watch the game tonight, but I followed it online and was surprised that he went back out for the 9th after throwing 110 pitches. Thinking about it, though, I’m not sure it’s that big of a deal, for three reasons:

1) Happ is a rookie, but he’s an “old” rookie—having a 26 year old go deep into the 120s is different than asking a 22 year old to do it.

2) They say that it isn’t necessary the number of pitches, but the level of effort/exertion. It didn’t seem like he had any particularly stressful innings all night, and as Mitch Williams pointed out on MLBN, he was throwing mostly fastballs.

3) Between the off-day on Monday and the likelihood that Pedro will work in next week, Happ might not start again for a week. That merits maybe a bit more rope when he’s cruising.

(Special bonus reason: it probably upset J.P. Ricciardi)

Would I have sent him out for the 9th? Probably not. But a shutout is a big deal, and between the trade rumors and the uncertainty about his future in the rotation—crazy as it is, given how good he’s been—the added confidence boost might justify the 17 extra pitches.

by dajafi on Aug 6, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions

Mental toughness...

Good post. Knowing his spot in the rotation was in jeopardy, Happ stepped it up— big time. Contrast this with Lopez, who wilted like an underwatered flower when he got his last chance in a similar spot. Frankly, I don’t care if Pedro is getting impatient. I also don’t care about Moyer’s self professed desire to pitch in the bigs until he’s 50. Happ just made Charlie’s rotation decision a whole lot harder. Here’s hoping they do the right thing and keep Happ in the rotation. He’s certainly earned it.

by Boundforbeach on Aug 6, 2009 8:27 AM EDT reply actions