What's the Question?

by jho on Aug 6, 2009 9:29 AM EDT

The headlines continue on the phillies website... Striking out a career-high 10, J.A. Happ -- who may lose his rotation spot to Pedro Martinez -- ... Happ's spot in rotation may be tenuous....

And the simple fact that Manuel won't confirm him as a starter....

My question is why? What more can the kid do to prove that he belongs in the starting rotation? Two Complete Game shutouts in his rookie year? An ERA of 2.74? A WHIP of 1.12. This kid deserves a medal.

Pitchers keep teams in games by not giving up runs. Happ has by FAR the lowest ERA of a starting pitcher on the club.

Cole Hamels: 4.68
Joe Blanton: 4.02
Jamie Moyer: 5.55
Brett Myers: 4.66
Bastardo: 6.75
Rodrigo Lopez: 3.99
Happ: 2.74
Martinez: (Last year) 5.61(our minors AAA and AA) 7ER over Ten Innings.
Lee: 3.02

In fact, besides for newly aquired stud Lee, Happ has the only ERA of one of our starting pitchers below 4, and its over a run below that.

Since becoming a starter, he has averaged 6 and 2/3 innings pitched, including two complete game shutouts.

Comparatively, Blanton who has seemed to be a workhorse is averaging 6 and 1/3 innings a start. Hamels is under six. Moyer is slightly under 5 2/3.

"Well uh, he was great out of the bullpen before and we need room for Pedro." How can you help your bullpen more than by pitching deep into games and leaving with a lead?

Pedro has looked worn down for the last few years, as evidenced by his high ERA and WHIP the last few years. Sure he can k a bunch of minor leaguers, but it dont matter if you don't put your team in a position to win.

The lack of confidence in Happ disturbes me. No, his stuff is not overwhelming. It's not gonna wow you. His fastball is great, his change is good. His slider is OK. But it is certainly not a fluke, as he would have been blown up long ago if it were.

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I think there are “doing right by good people” factors in play here that we, on the outside, don’t really grapple with. Taking into account how widely respected Moyer is around the league, if the Phillies treat him “badly” it might turn off other players and might give them pause on whether they want to play in Philadelphia or not.

On the other hand, dumping Pedro into the ’pen might have a similar effect.

This “good problem” might turn into a “bad problem” pretty quickly.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 6, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions

Yes... its a good point.

We don’t want to be seen as a team that doesn’t keep its promises. But circumstances change. Lee’s acquisition and Happs breakout change the equation. Pedro and Moyer know this. From my perspective, I don’t even know why there is all this discussion about what to do with Happ. He should remain a starter without question. As for the final starting spot, I’m really not sure the best way to handle it. It should be Pedro or Moyer, and Happ has earned the right to be left out of that discussion.

by Boundforbeach on Aug 6, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Moyer

If treating Moyer badly is signing a 46 year old to a multi year multi million dollar contract, and then letting him play while he posts the second worst starting ERA in the majors.

I think the rest of the league is looking at us as moronic for being so nice to him.

by jho on Aug 6, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

Right...

Pedro finally has a “passable” outing in the minors and now we are talking about giving him a spot in the starting rotation. I don’t care if he’s getting impatient. Truth be told, I don’t think we would have ever signed him had we known we had a realistic shot at grabbing a high end starting pitcher at the trade deadline. Pedro has certainly paid his dues, but not in a Phillies uniform. He said when he was signed that he just wants to contribute and help the team win. Time to test his words. He can contribute in the pen to start out.

by Boundforbeach on Aug 6, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions

I’ve been intrigued with the idea of Pedro as Closer for years now, actually. But then you have “Brad Lidge Feelings” issues to deal with.

This is why designating a “closer” is just friggin’ dumb, and the “Save” stat is loathsome and should be eliminated.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 6, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Here's a good link on the origin of the save statistic...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/080805

by Boundforbeach on Aug 6, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions

And for what it’s worth, Pedro has been pretty coy about the idea of being a reliever, and has substantial incentives in his contract for certain games pitched thresholds. They’re clearly prepared for that contingency.

If they make Pedro a reliever, and he’s effective, I just hope they deploy him in the most efficient, meaningful way possible.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 6, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

If Pedro’s agent negotiated “games pitched” vs “innings pitched” escalators, you think he would be all for the pen. Vote for Pedro… in the pen.

by Boundforbeach on Aug 6, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think we would have ever signed him had we known we had a realistic shot at grabbing a high end starting pitcher

And when he was signed – did the phillies know they had a realistic shot at grabbing a high end starting pitcher? Was Halladay already on the market? Was it known that cliff lee was available?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 6, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions

Halladay was on the market by July 21st. I believe Pedro was backup insurance if we couldn’t pull of a deal. Everyone is just infatuated with his past.

Teams win in the present, not based on what the individuals players have done in the past.

by jho on Aug 6, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

And pedro was signed before July 21st.

And there was no guarantee the phillies would be able to bolster their rotation with either Halladay or Lee if trade details couldn’t be worked out. They were – but nothing is guaranteed.

You seem infatuated with evaluating pitchers based on their ERA…

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 6, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions

True on the pedro signing. I got the date wrong.

But yes, I am in love with era. It’s not the whole story but it’s probably the best way to evaluate a pitchers performance in a single stat.

by jho on Aug 6, 2009 12:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Except there are about 4-5 stats easy to look at that are a better way to evaluate a pitcher (or a hitter) choosing one is just lazy

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 6, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions

happ

who cares hes not going to start in the playoffs so we might as well get him the the pen n get used to pitching everyday .. it will help us better in the long run

by jack is better than asante on Aug 6, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions

I think he has a legitimate shot of starting in the playoffs (should we be so fortunate as to make it to a 7 game series).

by FuquaManuel on Aug 6, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions

scratch that, I think he has a shot of even getting a start in a 5 game series.

by FuquaManuel on Aug 6, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions

what the hell are you talking about?

Who’s the 4th starter in the playoffs then?

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 6, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Considering that it’s JIBTA talking, probably someone like Bastardo or (insert random Lehigh Valley pitcher here)

by wildcatlh on Aug 6, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Don’t dignify this moron with an acronym.

by FuquaManuel on Aug 6, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I observe that Howard Eskin has been trashing Happ for months now and that Mr. Jack has professed to being an Eskin enthusiast. Coincidence?

by taco pal on Aug 6, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions

So you are saying that Howard Eskin is a SB Nation troll?

by FuquaManuel on Aug 6, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I think he was accusing JA (the poster, not the pitcher, and it stands for something different) – lacks a will of his own or the ability to form independent thought so just regurgitates what he hear the burger king flower killer say.

At least I hope that’s what he meant

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Aug 6, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions