"Phold of '64" has already been used...
... so sadly, we might need to get ready to come up with a new moniker for this year's possible disaster. This would technically be worse, since we were up 7 games with 10 to go instead of 6.5.
5 games up with 8 to go is a good position to be in, technically speaking. But when you consider that the Braves have won 5 in a row, are 8-2 in their last 10 games, AND play the worst team in the league 5 times in their next 8, our position is far from secure.
Right now the Phils are 5-5 in their last 10. Quite frankly I'm not as concerned with our .500 play as I am with how we got there: Lousy pitching out of the bullpen, dormant offense against mediocre pitching, sloppy play, and bad luck. This is nothing like the past two years, when we ratcheted up our overall play considerably down the stretch and had the little things go right when we needed them the most.
If that weren't bad enough, consider the rest of our schedule:
9/27/09 @ Brewers - Joe Blanton vs. Dave Bush. Back in April, Bush almost no-hit the Phillies, as Rollins, Utley and Howard went 0-11 against him. Blanton is 0-1 with an ERA over 4 against the Brew Crew.
9/28/09 - 10/1/09 vs. Astros - Too lazy to look up the pitching matchups. The Astros are 24-11 against the Phillies since 2004. Great.
10/2/09 - 10/4/09 vs. Marlins - During last Wednesday's loss to the Fish, Larry Andersen said something to the effect of "The Phillies had better hope that their last series against the Marlins does not have any implications for their getting into the playoffs." It's looking like there will be implications-a-plenty in that series.
Given our play down the stretch, it's not bloody likely that we'll be WFC this year - assuming we get to the playoffs.
This brings me to my last item for the rant: Jumping the Gun. After we beat Milwaukee on Thursday, someone on one of the local news channels said something to the effect that we had a 99.9% chance of making the playoffs. And that talk has been going on for a while now - playoffs, playoffs, playoffs.
Last year was great for many reasons (duh). As one friend of mine put it, "You can't screw up winning the World Series." And while last year's championship exorcised the demons of many past failures, it did not change the fact that the team is still the Phillies, losers of more than 10,000 games. It did not change the fact that there have been many dismal, disappointing failures by all of the Philadelphia teams. And it will not change the fact that we will likely experience more heartbreak sooner or later.
I just hope that the heartbreak doesn't happen so soon after the promise of 2007 and the fulfillment of 2008.
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You could still have
the ten minutes of your life it took to write that. It’s over. It’s been over for a while now. It’s not any less over tonight than it was last night. Perpetually living in a state of anxiety is no way to spend the next couple of weeks, to say nothing of your life.
Seriously, I suggest Xanax. Perhaps a nice Bordeaux.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Sep 26, 2009 11:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well then.
Perpetually living in a state of anxiety is no way to spend the next couple of weeks, to say nothing of your life.
I’m not living in a state of anxiety, and I’m not losing any sleep over this. I’m just saying that a collapse would really suck, and that – contrary to public opinion – it’s entirely possible.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Sep 27, 2009 12:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Your factual justification for your position here is fascinating… a Dave Bush performance from April (bear in mind 3 of his 5 September starts have been pretty awful), a 4 year combined record against the Astros (the 2005 Phillies employed 2 pitchers that are currently on our roster), and the venerable Larry Andersen’s colorful thoughts on the outlook for the last series against the Marlins (Larry has also authored such gems this year as ‘That sky is… weird’ and ‘When they wave those towels I feel like I’m in a snowglobe!’.
When some website says the Phillies odds of making the playoffs are 99.7%, that means that a statistical model has been run, and in 3 of 1000 possible outcomes, the Phillies miss the cut. This is not speaking with a sense of entitlement or false confidence – this is a fact. People who use far more sound predictors of performance than a Dave Bush start from over 5 months ago say that a collapse is almost a statistical impossibility. So if you’d like to worry about things that have a a 3 in 1000 chance of happening, you should really think about being hit by a bus or developing pancreatic cancer. Most of us choose to ignore statistical improbabilities in favor of things that are far more likely to happen.
As far as your other allegation goes:
Given our play down the stretch, it’s not bloody likely that we’ll be WFC this year – assuming we get to the playoffs.How many times must you be told that a 5 game series is a probabilistic crapshoot? The feeling that we’re “just not getting things done down the stretch” has no bearing on our actual performance when our opponent and the import of the games change entirely.
You can have your own position on this, and feel free to say you told us so if the Phillies in fact don’t make the playoffs. Just don’t act like you’re some kind of prophet warning us of the inevitable when you really just have a crackpot obsession right now.
by Steve J on Sep 27, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the Mets were up to 99.9% in 2007
Of all fans you guys should know that epic collapses are possible
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Sep 29, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are possible but not probable. They are called epic collapses for a reason.
by doubleh on Sep 29, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously that's true
it’s just funny, reading through your posts here reminded me of posts on Mets’ blogs in 2007 and 2008. Just sayin’
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Sep 29, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure it's not really funny
Reliving what happened in 2007, being the Mets fan that you are (regardless of the yummy Schaudenfreude you are reveling in right now). I can assure you, that as a Phillies fan who has heard about 1964 from her father who experienced it firsthand, this is not exactly fun for me. Though I think the Phils will eventually pull it out, they are making this really much more difficult than it needs to be.
Bottom line is, we are all fans who care deeply for our teams, perhaps sometimes to our own detriment.
by doubleh on Sep 29, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny you should mention...
I called my father the other day and he assured me that 1964 won’t happen again because “there were only 2 starting pitchers in those days.” There was also Ruben Amaro Sr. in those days. Like father like son? I hope not.
If this collapse were to happen it would be worse than the 1964 Phillies and 2007 Mets put together.
1964: Phils up by 6.5 with 12 to go
2007: Mets up 7 with 17 to go
2009: Phils up 8.5 with 13 to go, and 7 with 10 to go
If you told me in the beginning of the year that we’d be up 4 games with 6 to go I’d gladly take it. But what’s particularly creepy is HOW the lead has shrunk. Our pitchers have given up more broken-bat-bloops and slow-rollers than I care to see. And we’re giving up a lot of runs with 2 outs. Not good.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Sep 29, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reflection
As bad as it might seem to lose four out of five and a quick three games off the lead, I still like the chances this year much better than I did the last two years. Just to compare how different things are now, this is where the team was after 154 games the last two years.
2007: record of 84-70, 1.5 games behind both the Mets and the Padres (for the Wild Card lead). Had just won a game over Washington (by Adam Eaton!) while the Mets had just beaten the Marlins behind Pedro Martinez. And despite winning only 5 of the last 8 games they won by a game over the Mets, who won only three of their last nine.
2008: record of 86-68, .5 games behind the Mets, but 2 games ahead of Milwaukee for the Wild Card lead. Brett Myers had just gotten hammered by the Marlins in a 14-8 loss while the Mets beat Atlanta to knock the Phillies out of first after three exciting days with the lead. Of course, that ended well, when the Phillies went 6-2 while the Mets went 3 and 6 again.
One final thought: this being the 154-game mark means this is the number of games in a full season before 1962. The 2009 Phillies are 89-65. It gives a little more perspective to the records of some of the old-time pennant winners, like the 1950 Phillies who won “only” 91 games. 91 wins would look pretty good right now.
by phillyinportland on Sep 27, 2009 3:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Never mind, everyone.
1. This is a blog – a blog where one posts opinions. My opinion was that I did not like the direction the Phillies were headed in, especially since the team behind them was on a tear. Keep in mind that this post is full of words like “might” and “possible,” not “will” and “definite.” I was expressing an opinion. Relax.
2. Re: the Dave Bush comment, how many mediocre pitchers have the Phillies made look like Cy Young lately? Manny Parra? Anibal Sanchez? Look through the posts and I’m sure you can find a comprehensive list. Obviously the pattern didn’t hold today (thank God) but it wouldn’t have been the first time we made a lousy pitcher look good.
3. LA isn’t exactly a Rhodes scholar, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be right about some things. Hypothetically speaking, say we still had a magic number of 2 going into the Marlins series. You can’t tell me you’d be comfortable in that position. I can’t find the Phillies’ all-time record against the Marlins, but it’s probably not too far from 50-50, especially in recent years.
4. Regarding the Astros, look at the first two comments from the recap of today’s game. I’m obviously not the only one uncomfortable about playing the Astros.
5. I have no desire or intention to be “a prophet of doom” and I don’t want to have to say “I told you so,” believe me. I want the Phillies to make the playoffs and repeat, obviously. Just because I had a bad feeling about the way things were going does NOT make me have “a crackpot obsession.” Please.
But I’ll admit that I should have ended the original post on a more straightforward note, to wit: We need to take care of our own business, because if not, we could be in trouble.The bullpen has not been good of late, and we’re still leaving lots of guys on base in scoring position. Meanwhile, the Braves have been beating up on the Nats, whom they play 4 more times. We have the tougher schedule and have not been playing as well as we can, when ideally we should be at or close to top form.
I did get a kick out of Taco Pal’s reply, though, so thanks for that. And thanks to phillyinportland for offering a different viewpoint without resorting to hurling insults. It’s possible to disagree and be civil, folks.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Sep 27, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Magic number = 3.
How’s that for not hurling insults.
Xanax, dude.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Sep 27, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a bad feeling that one day I am going to wake up broke, homeless, and hungry…but statistically the chances of that happening are not very high. Thus, I refrain from going on blogs about homelessness and writing post about how afraid I am about my (not so) impending homelessness.
There is a 99% chance that we will win the division. If you were to write a blog post worrying about every other thing in you life that had less than a 1% chance of happening, you would have no time to enjoy life.
by FuquaManuel on Sep 28, 2009 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is the defense “this is a blog, I’m entitled to my opinion so back off” used so often?
By the same notion, I’m entitled to mine.
I won’t waste time going point by point as you have – you’ve used the similarly anecdotal and/or silly evidence as in your original post. I debunked what you said only because you were attempting to lend factual credibility to a virtual probabilistic impossibility. So sorry for hurting your feelings!
by Steve J on Sep 28, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have to Like our Chances
Even if Atlanta runs the table, with 7 games left, we have to win 3, right?
Or if Atlanta loses only 1 from here out, then we only have to win 2.
I know if you follow the game long enough, you will see almost anything (and I am old enough to remember the Phold (it was 6.5 game lead with 12 to go, not 10), but seriously, if we can not win 3 out of 7, you have to wonder if we belong in the playoffs.
by JWoody on Sep 28, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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