Mad World: Phillies 6, Nationals 5

by dajafi on Sep 9, 2009 10:30 PM EDT

It would have been nice if, a day after Charlie Manuel reluctantly went to extricate Brad Lidge from a ninth-inning jam, bringing in Ryan Madson to save a one-run win, the Phils could have put up a ton of early runs and cruised to an easy win in Washington. But it’s been weeks since any wins came easy for this team, and it came as no surprise that when the ninth inning rolled around, the Phils were protecting a slender lead and Manuel would have to make another hard call.

When the ninth inning began, it was Madson, not Lidge, who came on to try and preserve a 6-5 advantage. And where Lidge had so often faltered after allowing a leadoff baserunner--pitching from the stretch being one of his many issues in 2009—Madson shrugged off a Justin Maxwell leadoff single and steal of second to nail down the win. He struck out Cristian Guzman, who’d previously notched six hits in eight career at-bats against Madson—and induced a soft line-drive from Adam Dunn that Chase Utley caught and flipped to Jimmy Rollins covering for the game-ending double play as Maxwell couldn’t get back.

A good defensive moment in the game was long overdue. Utley’s failure to handle what looked like a dead double play ball in the seventh let Washington tie the score at 4, and Ryan Howard’s error on a routine throw from Rollins to lead off the eighth eventually came around to score. But the game featured some positives as well: starter Cliff Lee, while not near his untouchable early-August form, was much better than in his previous two starts. Lee worked into the eighth inning, allowing five runs (four earned) on ten hits, walking none and striking out four. He gave way to Chan Ho Park with men on second and third and none out in the eighth, and Park managed to hold the Nationals to one run.

Offensively, the Phils gave more signs that they might be easing out of their weeks-long slump, scoring three runs in the second inning without benefit of a home run. It was, however, the solo homer that provided the winning margin, as Jayson Werth and Pedro Feliz went back to back in the eighth off Tyler Clippard. Raul Ibanez had another good game against his favorite opponent, with two doubles in five trips to the plate. Alberto Gonzalez, evidently failing to recall that he isn’t very good (eh? eh? EH???), went 3-3 for the Nats with three doubles off Lee.

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You missed the news earlier? In an attempt to improve – alberto changed his name to adrian

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Sep 9, 2009 10:31 PM EDT reply actions

Cliff Lee wtf number crunching

was reading the game thread. I think you hit on one potential “what’s up with Lee?” hypothesis in that he might not be walking enough guys , but I looked at his career stats and think I’m grasping at straws too. He has a 3.13 ERA and is 13-11 overall, which are silly stats in general, but get at the bad luck dynamic. He has a 1.24 WHIP, just a shade below his career 1.30. FB/GB ratio is around 1. That’s pretty damn good.

So I’m down to odd tweaks and LA-like dyspepsia: maybe he should hit a guy, be a little wild deliberately, back guys off the plate. And maybe the guys behind him should catch the ball better. And maybe the batters should do a better job hitting balls at the defense. I give up.

by Wet Luzinski on Sep 9, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah I didn’t think it was walk rate, and a quick look at ‘pitch’ distribution didn’t show much variation from game to game as well…

Like I said in the thread – I don’t know exactly what should be looked at but if someone has an idea I’ll see what I can do.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Sep 10, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions

And I know it’s small sample size but the BABIP numbers for lee in the first five versus the last 3 – anyone know if they were vastly different?

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Sep 10, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

I think it’s pretty remarkable that Madson was brought in tonight, again, even though he’s apparently nursing a sore arm. The statements by Charlie and Lidge on Tuesday night made it sound as though they were in agreement that Lidge was still the closer and games would be his to lose. Yet here’s a close game and they bring in a guy who’s got a lingering minor malady – and it’s obviously not just because Lidge pitched the previous night, because Madson did too. I guess this means Lidge is not the go-to closer, but the team is going to keep saying he is for the time being.

"I am the Walrus?..... I am the Walrus." - Donny Kerabatsos

by The Navigator on Sep 9, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions

FWIW, on the postgame radio show, when asked about the arm injury Madson said he was past it, it was minor, and he was only concerned not to aggravate anything prior to the playoffs. His velocity and movement the past two nights suggest to me there’s nothing wrong.

My hunch is Manuel wants to transition to a committee, with Lidge being part of it, but as guys like Eyre/Romero/Condrey out and Myers just back. he’s left with Madson.

by Wet Luzinski on Sep 10, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions

I tend to agree. Cannot imagine hanging it all on Madson w/ no Spring training, etc… Atleast Madson has given us a couple wins, finally.

by DeanH on Sep 10, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Another way to think about it though is that Madson made six pitches Tuesday night, while LIdge made, um, more.

Add in those Rich Hoffman stats about how awful Lidge has been on back-to-back days and it was I think a pretty easy choice between the two. Which isn’t to say Cholly didn’t show some sack making it.

by dajafi on Sep 10, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions

He’ll show some sack if he doesn’t just return to lidge this weekend after a day off or two

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Sep 10, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think “sack” has anything to do with it. Judging from fan reaction, sticking with Lidge is the decision that requires a lot more “sack.” The important question is: which decision is right, not which one is ballsier.

It’s a regrettable aspect of human nature for people to believe that others prove their courage by doing what we want them to do. That’s why you so often see politicians bragging about being so “courageous” in cutting taxes, or accusing their opponents of being spineless by raising them. Regardless of whether taxes should be cut or raised in some particular situation, it’s obvious that cutting them is the crowd-pleaser and thus generally requires less courage.

by taco pal on Sep 10, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions

But at this point the ‘right’ thing and the ‘crowd pleasing’ thing see to dovetail nicely…Brad Lidge is downright horrible right now, he’s unable to perform his job – so it makes sense to see if others can get it done – for whatever reason for the good of the team…the managers job is to put the team in the best position to win as I see it, and as I see it (and many others it seems) using Brad Lidge to ‘save’ games isn’t putting the team in the best position to win right now.

I think it’ll be courageous to stick with Madson after a day or two off because it’s contrary to the nature of how Manuel has managed most of his time in Philadlephia. Guys are in roles and unless injured they don’t tend to lose those roles. Jimmy Rollins needs a shake up – so he’s down in the batting order a day or two, a good performance – oh look he’s back up there at #1 when maybe he should stay at 6.

Charlie Manuel seems to me, very much, a ‘players manager’ who worries more bout the feelings of his players than of the fans…demoting Lidge from the closer role is an emotional thing in that it will impact Lidge most likely regardless of the fact that he is terrible right now he probably (and really has to or he’s useless) that he can get out of it…if Manuel STICKS with Madson (or ‘not lidge’) as the closer for a while – I believe it will be courageous cause it’s pretty contrary to what he’s done most of his tenure in Philadelphia (I said most, I’m sure instances can be found to contradict this)….

Unless of course Lidge suddenly goes to the DL for some ‘lingering’ injury that excuses his poor performance recently – at which point no hard decisions really have to be made.

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Sep 10, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Regarding your second paragraph, I think the quality you’re describing isn’t courage; it’s creativity or perhaps flexibility. Those are good qualities too, but they’re not the same thing as courage. (Your first paragraph, I think, just supports my point that this is about being smart, not brave.)

You make a fair point about the possibility that Charlie being concerned about how his players might react. But (a) that’s based on a few assumptions about how the players actually do feel in the clubhouse right now, which none of us are really privy to, and (b) even if it’s true, it at most just puts the question of which choice is more courageous in equipoise.

To be clear, I agree that Lidge should not be the closer, or at least not the full-time closer. I just don’t think courage has much to do with anything.

by taco pal on Sep 10, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the bigger issue probably is a semantic one that it doesn’t take ‘courage’ at all to play a game or manage a team :)

There’s no bravery involved at all really :)

My feelings regarding Charlie and how players felt was meant solely to indicate Brad Lidge and how he might feel if told – sorry dude – you just ain’t the closer any more – he HAS to believe he can pitch out of this or he’s just no good at all – if he doesn’t believe in himself any more – it’s going to be a long 3 years with a lot of money.

And you’re right – the use of courage in any situation like this is just wrong…but sports in general uses too many adjectives/adverbs that don’t really belong to make it some sort of warlike conflict when it’s really just a game

Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned

by jemagee on Sep 10, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Confused??

jemagee-
Here was your trollish remark to my commentary saying essentially the same thing..

What’s changed in two days?

Just people you put people insituations where they CAN succeed doesn’t mean they will.

They put madson in a closer role and he blew it pretty bad
Myers is just getting back

Who do you think has a BETTER chance of dealing with the ‘pressure of being a closer’ right now?

Lidge is the only realistic option AT THIS TIME…if Myers continues to pitch well then maybe he’s an option – but right now Lidge is the only option

Don’t frack with me or you’ll get a punch in the kidneys…you’ve been warned

by jemagee on Sep 8, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

by Bilzo on Sep 10, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions

CSN interviewed Lidge after the game. He was not happy. He repeated the company line that he is happy we won. Got irrated (IMO) and said I have nothing else to say and walked away. He was not happy or gracious.

I enjoyed the last 2 wins, no thanks to you, Mr. I will leave the lights on for you LIdge.

by DeanH on Sep 10, 2009 12:03 AM EDT reply actions

I can’t imagine how frustrated he is. He’d be better off not talking to the press right now. What is there to say? He’s losing a job less than 12 months after being at the top of the world, ma.

by Wet Luzinski on Sep 10, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions

the press doesn’t make things like this easy tho. If you were Lidge would you wanna talk?

by Bilzo on Sep 10, 2009 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Who cares? You wouldn’t be gracious either. It’s stupid for fans to get fixated on personal stuff like that.

by taco pal on Sep 10, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions

a laugh for ya'll

MLB rumors:

Rockies DFA Adam Eaton
By Drew Silva [September 9 at 6:43pm CST]
According to MLB.com, the Rockies designated right-hander Adam Eaton for assignment in order to clear 40-man roster space for infielder Mike McCoy.

Eaton, 31, posted a 5.63 ERA in eight innings of relief for the Rockies back in August shortly after inking a minor league deal. He was also released by the Orioles earlier this season and will finish the 2009 campaign with an 8.08 ERA in 49 innings (eight starts).

by DeanH on Sep 10, 2009 12:23 AM EDT reply actions

8.08 ERA

How does that compare with Freddy Garcia, the other big free-agent bust?

by phillyinportland on Sep 10, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions

correction

For the sake of accuracy, Garcia game to Philadelphia in a trade.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Sep 10, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Point taken. The other big off-season acquisition.

by phillyinportland on Sep 11, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions

What’s most insulting is that the SOB is still collecting a paycheck. He’s lucky they direct deposit now, or else he’d need a mask to come and collect the check.

by WanderingMoses on Sep 10, 2009 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions

hmmm…
What do Adam Eaton and Freddy Garcia have in common?

They both have Lidge-esque ERAs and they’re NOT closing for other teams.

by Bilzo on Sep 10, 2009 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions

Garcia just pitched last night for the White Sox. He went 6IP and gave up 2R on 5H, 3BB vs OAK.

by doubleh on Sep 10, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks for the heads up

It looks like Garcia is actually doing well for the White Sox now. After getting lit up a bit in his season debut, he has run off four straight quality starts, has a 1-2 record with the two no-decisions being games the bullpen blew saves for him. If starting pitching was a major concern for the team now, we’d probably be all over the front office for letting Garcia go after getting only one win in exchange for Gavin Floyd, who continues to show signs that he may be a solid middle-of-the-rotation pitcher.
By the way, with one win this year, Garcia has now gone three straight years with one win a year.

by phillyinportland on Sep 11, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions