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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Phillies Top 30 Prospects, '10 Edition: Notable Omissions

[Part I of a four-part series]

Those who say that baseball is really a year-round sport at this point are right, but I'm going to use this post as the official line of demarcation from the 2009 season to the 2010 campaign -- at least as far as the minor leagues go.  And, I figured, what better way to look forward than to give the prospect equivalent of the State of the Union address?  So over the next week or so, I'm going to release my personal Top 30 list for the 2010 season.  The list will come in four segments, beginning with today's piece on some "name" prospects who may be conspicuous by their absence from the forthcoming Top 30.

I should say a couple of things before I dive into this.  First off, if you haven't had the opportunity yet, please check out the revamped "The Minors" section on The Good Phight.  It gives a primer of how I tend to analyze prospects, including a rundown of some of the more important statistical categories I look at.  Second, you may notice a bit of shuffling since my last Prospect Roundup.  This is a fluid process, and while ranking players is an interesting discussion tool, I'm far less hung up on "Should this guy go #17 or #18?" than I am on accurately representing a player's realistic ceiling, floor, areas for improvement, etc.

So... I think that's it in the way of introduction.  Without further ado, then, check after the jump for some interesting names that missed the cut for the 2010 Top 30, along with their predicted minor league club for next year.

Star-divide

Joe Savery, LHP, Lehigh Valley
The organization's 1st round pick back in 2007, Savery has simply failed to regain the raw stuff (and the command) that made him such a highly touted prospect before his labrum surgery.  His numbers between Reading and Lehigh Valley last year (5.7 K/9, 4.6 BB/9, 4.72 FIP) were pedestrian; at this point, if he's got a future in the majors, he looks like a low-leverage bullpen guy at best.  Perhaps it's time for him to pick up the bat again?  This was a guy who hit .356/.451/.528 in a 3-year career at Rice, so he'd have some intriguing career paths as a LOOGY/pinch hitter.

Anthony Hewitt, OF-R, Lakewood
...and the organization's 1st round pick in 2008.  Kind of hurts when you put it that way, huh?  Hewitt is far from a lost cause, as he showed off a bit of power (.172 ISO) and cut the strikeouts down (33.0%) at Williamsport last year.  But he swings at everything (3.7% BB), got moved off third base after posting an .827 fielding percentage there, and will start next year in Lakewood as a 21-year old.  It could all come together still, but nobody's holding their breath.

Andrew Carpenter, RHP, Lehigh Valley
Carpenter had a nice bounceback year in 2009, posting a 4.08 FIP in 24 starts for Lehigh Valley.  But his stuff is really fringy, and throwing 89 mph fastballs over the heart of the plate in the majors is just another way of asking for a one-way ticket back to Triple-A.  Carpenter looks like a Quad-A guy to me, and while I'd be happy to be proven wrong, his best case scenario looks like "long reliever," which simply isn't enough to get him into the Top 30.

Steve Susdorf, OF-L, Reading
I like Susdorf, and I think he's got a shot to make the majors as a bench bat, but as a polished 23-year old college guy, I'm wary about him until I see some production in Double-A -- he hit a combined .358/.418/.502 between Lakewood and Clearwater, but only .221/.318/.351 in Reading.  Susdorf doesn't have much in the way of secondary skills -- just 7.4% BB, a .143 ISO, and a fringy glove in left field -- so his bat will need to carry him moving forward.

Quintin Berry, OF-L, Lehigh Valley
Sort of a poor man's Michael Bourn, Berry combines good speed (48 stolen bases in 62 attempts in 2009, 6.6 speed score) with some patience (10.5% BB), but has too much swing-and-miss (22.9% K) for his slap-hitting style (.070 ISO).  Guys with solid walk rates but no power tend to get exploited by pitchers at higher levels, and at 25 years old, Berry is no spring chicken.  He could have some useful years in the majors as a 5th outfielder, but that's probably the best case scenario at this point.

David Herndon, RHP, Lehigh Valley
The organization's Rule 5 selection this year, I'm putting Herndon down for Lehigh Valley because I don't think he'll break camp with the Phillies; in that scenario, he'd have to be offered back to the Angels, or the Phils could work out a deal to keep him around.  Herndon does have an interesting skill set, as he's a sinkerballer (58.5% GB in 2009) who's stingy with the free pass (1.9 BB/9).  But he's strictly a reliever at this point, and doesn't miss enough bats (4.8 K/9) to be anything more than a guy with a chance to become Clay Condrey.

Austin Hyatt, RHP, Clearwater
It hurts to leave Hyatt off, because he was a name I was always excited to see in the Williamsport box scores last summer, and for good reason -- he was utterly dominant (13.4 K/9, 2.0 BB/9, 0.17 HR/9, 1.12 FIP in 54.1 IP).  Reports that his fastball was up to 94 are encouraging for a guy whose reputation was as a pitchability senior, but caution is necessary in evaluating a 23-year old who made hay by befuddling younger hitters.  Some success at Clearwater and Reading would most certainly get him into the Top 30.

Sergio Escalona, LHP, Lehigh Valley
I don't know what it is about Escalona, but I'm just not wowed by him.  He's a solid enough relief prospect, and as a southpaw he'll continue to get chances, but his numbers from Triple-A and the majors were just so-so, and it's not like he throws really hard or has a truly plus secondary offering that would make him really intriguing.  My standard for pure relief prospects is pretty high -- only 4 of them made the Top 30 -- so Sergio winds up here.

Kyrell Hudson, OF-R, Williamsport
I had Hudson in one iteration of the Top 30, but when I thought about it some more, I realized that I'm not entirely comfortable ranking a kid whose hit tool is a serious question mark.  Tools are great to have, but I'd like to hear scouting reports that say something -- anything -- good about his ability to square balls up or demonstrate some modicum of pitch recognition before I pull the trigger on him as a Top 30 prospect.  It's a personal preference, but I'll gladly hitch my wagon to guys with skills, or guys with tools and some basic skills, before guys with tools galore and no present skills to speak of.

Mike Cisco, RHP, Reading
I just realized there's quite a bit of pitchability in this list.  Cisco is another tough luck omission from the Top 30, as he's pitched well since the Phillies selected him in the 36th round of the 2008 draft, even meriting a look in the Arizona Fall League last year.  But while his command has stayed solid as he's climbed the ladder, the strikeouts have begun to dry up (from 10.2 K/9 in Williamsport to 4.6 K/9 in Reading).  Reports have his stuff being a little short, even for a command/control guy, so he winds up outside the Top 30 -- but like any pitchability guy, ne has a shot to prove doubters wrong by sustaining success at the upper levels.

Star-dividev5547_medium

In addition to the above omissions, prospect hounds may note the absence of some 2009 draftees like Steven Inch, Ryan Sasaki, Aaron Altherr, Nick Hernandez, Adam Buschini, and Jeremy Barnes, in addition to 2008 draftee Julio Rodriguez.  When it comes right down to it, it's a numbers crunch, and it should be obvious that the list of guys who merit attention is longer than just 30.

We'll check back in with Part II, featuring prospects #30 through 21, on Monday.  In the meantime, here's a poll to try to get some discussion going...

Poll
Which of the following prospects should be on the Top 30?
Joe Savery
127 votes
Anthony Hewitt
48 votes
Andrew Carpenter
57 votes
Sergio Escalona
70 votes
Other
24 votes
None, you got all of them right! (Don't click this, there are no points for sucking up)
48 votes

374 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 23 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Just a quick point of order. In your piece on “The Minors,” you wrote that “Triple-A is obviously just below the majors, and generally speaking, guys who can produce here will be able to contribute to some degree at the major league level.” Yet, Carpenter, who clearly did produce at AAA last year, is not on the list.

I’m not saying Carpenter should be on the list by any means, but just thought this could use some clarification. By “produce,” are you just referring to offensive production?

Also, more generally, it seems to me that there have been a decent number of guys over the years who have been able to have long-term success in the majors despite fringy stuff. Most of these guys have been lefties (Jamie Moyer, Mark Buehrle), but I don’t think all of them have been. Is there any way to predict in advance who these guys will be? Is it just a matter of walk rate and groundball rate? Or is it just unpredictable?

by taco pal on Jan 29, 2010 11:14 AM EST reply actions  

Good question.

Carpenter really did everything you could have asked of him last year, but I’m just very skeptical that his stuff will play at the major league level. I think he’d be 2008 Kyle Kendrick as a starting pitcher, and while he could carve out a several year career as a strike-throwing mop up guy, that doesn’t scream Top 30 to me. I guess, if I’m going to rely on semantics, being a long man would be Carpenter contributing “to some degree at the major league level” — just not a degree that warrants placement on a top prospect list. I could be wrong here, and the stats tell me I should like him more, but I just don’t see it.

As for your second question: I think it’s pretty unpredictable. Lefties who carve up the low minors despite topping out at 85 inevitably get a Jamie Moyer comp thrown on them, but that’s like throwing a Greg Maddux comp on a control righty or a Ryan Howard comp on a guy with prodigious power and strikeout rates — it’s wishcasting, because those players are so unique that it’s really impossible to use them as a comp. I think you’ve got it right, that if we’re looking at a sample size of guys with fringy stuff, the ones that have success are more likely to be lefties, have a good walk rate (and good command, so that they’re not throwing junkballs over the heart of the plate just so they don’t walk guys), and have a multitude of pitches they can throw on any count. But the odds are just so stacked against those guys that it’s tough to generalize from the small number that do make it.

by PhillyFriar on Jan 29, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Savery

If working shorter stints in relief adds a couple ticks to his fastball, and he can recover enough with the bat to be useful, that’s a fun 25th man on a roster. But even in that role, his value might be more economical (two roster spots in one) than as a guy who helps you win games.

by dajafi on Jan 29, 2010 3:01 PM EST reply actions  

My guess

Is he would end up equally awful at both tasks, if he split his focus like that. On the plus side, he’d get mentions on SportCenter and features in E: 60 and Real Sports, Even if he did suck at both, it would be an easy story to report on.

by Cormican on Jan 29, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe Savery: The Next Brooks Kieschnick?

by yosoysean on Jan 29, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

If he doesn’t produce as a pitcher this year, I might think about trying him as a second baseman.

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 30, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotta go Cisco here, as I have him 17 on mine. Then I’d give Escalona or Hyatt some love as I have them at the back-end of my 30. I saw Savery pitch twice last year and was remarkably unimpressed. I don’t think he goes anywhere, even as a lefty specialist because his splits aren’t good enough. Career AAAA player

by Michael Levin on Jan 29, 2010 5:43 PM EST reply actions  

Confused

you said

….a kid whose hit tool is a serious question mark. Tools are great to have, but I’d like to hear scouting reports that say something — anything — good about his ability to square balls up or demonstrate some modicum of pitch recognition before I pull the trigger on him as a Top 30 prospect. It’s a personal preference, but I’ll gladly hitch my wagon to guys with skills, or guys with tools and some basic skills, before guys with tools galore and no present skills to speak of.

So by tools are you referring to athletic attributes like strength, speed, endurance, agility, etc. and by skills, attributes specific to the sport?

by j reed on Jan 29, 2010 11:12 PM EST reply actions  

whoops sorry i can't seem too get the block quote thing to work right

should have been
you said
“….a kid whose hit tool is a serious question mark. Tools are great to have, but I’d like to hear scouting reports that say something — anything — good about his ability to square balls up or demonstrate some modicum of pitch recognition before I pull the trigger on him as a Top 30 prospect. It’s a personal preference, but I’ll gladly hitch my wagon to guys with skills, or guys with tools and some basic skills, before guys with tools galore and no present skills to speak of.”

So by tools are you referring to athletic attributes like strength, speed, endurance, agility, etc. and by skills, attributes specific to the sport?
If so what is the “hit tool” …hand eye-coordination, speed

by j reed on Jan 29, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

taco pal alert!

The five tools in baseball are hitting for average, hitting for power, speed, defense, and arm strength. When I say that Hudson has good tools, I mean that he’s athletic (he’s got good speed, and projects as a plus defender with solid arm strength) — but his present hitting ability is a big-time question mark. He has the raw ability and athleticism to be a good hitter (i.e. the hit tool is there), but little in the way of present skills that would allow him to utilize that.

I don’t think what I said was actually inaccurate, but it was definitely misleading, so thanks for asking for clarification, j reed. I’ll try to be a little more clear from here on out.

by PhillyFriar on Jan 30, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

taco pal loves him some tools.

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 30, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

A poster with serious tools and some upside.

by Walcott on Jan 31, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions  

and Veteran Clubhouse Presence. A steadying influence on the young guys.

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 31, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t forget “hard nosed” and “lunch pail guy,” whatever that means.

Steve Jeltz
.210/.308/.268
"The reason why I pointed at (Dawkins) is because he taught me how to play the game the right way. That way was to tackle the guy with the ball; you don't try and catch it. You don't get glory for that but if you punish him, you set the tempo and the tone and it affects the rest of the game. When I pointed at him, it was to give respect for what he showed me over the years.

by Steve Jeltz on Feb 1, 2010 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

and “gritty”

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Feb 2, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

so i should be alerted to this poster “taco pal” WTF are you people talking about?

by j reed on Jan 31, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

In a previous discussion about prospects, taco pal had something of a rant about the use of the word “toolsy.” So whenever any iteration of “tools” or “toolsy” comes up, as it did in your comment, we like to take the opportunity to poke some fun at him.

by PhillyFriar on Jan 31, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I’m glad my comments have been memorable in at least one way. Someday they’ll have to include something about toolsiness in my epitaph. Odi toolsy ergo sum.

But really, PF’s post just mentioned “tools,” which is fine by me. As long as doesn’t have the dreaded “y” appended.

by taco pal on Jan 31, 2010 3:57 PM EST reply actions  

In a not-entirely unrelated vein, just this weekend I ran across this old interview with Domonic Brown, where he and the interviewer had this noteworthy exchange:

AF: So it’s been three years since you were drafted. Looking back, what have you learned since high school?

DB: I’m just learning how to play the game the right way. When I got drafted I was just a skillsy player. I was really raw. Now I’m really starting to learn how to play the game the right way.

Emphasis mine. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

by taco pal on Jan 31, 2010 4:04 PM EST reply actions  

I believe Skillsy is the mascot for the Lakewood BlueClaws. Or should be. (And how are the Williamsport Crosscutters missing out on Toolsy as their mascot?)

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 31, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

All silliness aside

But PF – your stats primer on The Minors is wonderful. I knew most, had clicked on definitions for others previously, but never seen a concise way to consider them. Thanks.

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 31, 2010 5:28 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks, WL. I got the idea for it when I directed a buddy of mine to one of my posts, and he said something along the lines of, “Great stuff, but uhh… dude, where did you come up with all those stats?” I figured it couldn’t hurt to try to spell things out.

by PhillyFriar on Jan 31, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

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