Some Phillies Links For You, October 14, 2010: Pat the Bat Comes Back, Timmy Blisters, Bonds is Sweet
Barry Bonds to SF Giants: Beat Philly's Ass! - TMZ.com
If by "beat" he means "inject steroids into," I presume he'd be an expert.
Giants' Tim Lincecum battling blister problem as well as Phillies
They do get hot...
Cliff hanger: How in 14 hours ace went from Bronx to Texas
Subtitle: "A Tale of Yankee Entitlement."
Almost immortality: The baseball heartbreak of Bill Bevens
When I read the headline, I thought I'd be depressed after reading the whole article. But, not so much.
Brown learning as he goes
Well then.
Scientists: Curveball is just an illusion
Wow, could the headline be any different from the actual content of the article?
Giants may be green, but are still formidable foe for Phillies
I'm not a psychologist but I'm pretty sure the Phillies aren't looking past the Giants.
Back to Philly for Burrell
Yes, well, we all know about Pat, don't we?
Philly quite familiar to veteran Burrell
At least the Irish Pub part of it.
Taylor muscles up in Desert Dogs' win
OH NO SHOULD HAVE TRADED DOMONIC BROWN!!!!
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I am very much rooting for Taylor, Drabek, and D’Arnaud to have great MLB careers. We’ve already got Halladay, they’re all in the other league, and it would provide a beneficial cautionary tale with regard to trading prospects in the future.
in the near term, I’m thinking that the post-trade-deadline success of Lee and Oswalt is only going to embolden teams to trade top prospects.
by Boundforbeach on Oct 14, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting discussion thread from Fangarphs. I am not a fan of Cameron’s work, but it seems to me that his argument in the main post is basically correct. The hostility to it from some of the commenters is puzzling.
I was reading that last night and thought it was a very good point, especially since the CW seems to be that no Lee in game 1 is a death sentence.
I thought the home field advantage argument a commenter raised—that Lee pitching in game 5 forces the Yankees to win in Texas—was a fair point, and the Rangers were a much better home team than road team (51 home wins, 39 road wins) this year.
I agree with Cameron that if the Rangers lose to the Yankees it will be because the Yankees are a much better team, not really because Lee had to start 3 & 7 instead of 1 & 5.
by perfectdepth on Oct 14, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
My basic problem with it...
Is that Dave Cameron treats the playoffs and matchups as a series of independent events, almost like rolling dice. If that’s all it was, I think he would be totally correct.
However, the point a lot of people are trying to make is he totally ignores matchups. Having Lee/Sabathia in Game 1 and Lewis/Hughes in Game 3 may give the Rangers more of an advantage to win than having Wilson/Sabathia in Game 1 and Lee/Hughes in Game 3.
Now, maybe it won’t confer any advantage/disadvantage, but you need to actually analyze it to determine that. Instead, Dave completely ignores that aspect of it.
Isn’t that effectively what Cohen argued yesterday? He did not get a whole lot of love for that either. Somewhat different circumstances since Halladay will have full rest but the idea stands.
the biggest difference is that starting Blanton in game 1 means Blanton likely pitches twice in the series. if you have the option, you don’t do that.
by perfectdepth on Oct 14, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
This
There’s been a lot of discussion about this over the past day or so (here, MCC, Fangraphs, etc), but the general consensus seems to be that switching around pitching matchups doesn’t do a whole lot for your ability to win the whole series (robbing Peter to pay Paul), but that’s predicated on the notion that you’re sending your best guys to the hill over the course of seven games.
Lee starting Game 3 isn’t a big deal because you slide up two guys who would otherwise pitch Games 2 and 3 (akin to going Oswalt, Hamels, Halladay in the NLCS) and he’d still be good for Game 7. Now if Lee was the kind of guy who you looked to for three starts in a 7 game series (which hasn’t been the case, for whatever reason) then yeah it’s a problem. Given that we’re looking at two starts either way, Cameron’s clearly right on this one.
I have this same problem with this...
As I did Cameron’s initial piece.
It is not at all intuitive to me that the odds of the Rangers winning Wilson/Sabathia and Lee/Hughes is the same as the odds of the Rangers winning Lee/Sabathia and Lewis/Hughes.
Now maybe it is. But you have to analyze it and demonstrate it, not ask your readers to take it on faith.
Show their calculations? How dare you. When saberpope says this is how it is, that’s the way that it is.
You're right
I should have explained further. Now keep in mind I’m not much of a math guy, so this will be somewhat anecdotal on my end (and therefore I’m sure this will get shot down pretty quickly), but this is how I read the article and why it does make sense to me:
The short answer is that what we’re talking about is zero sum: Lee, Wilson and Lewis are throwing two out of the seven games (apiece), and if you assume that Lee gives you a better chance than the other two then you have to weaken yourself somewhere (by not starting Lee) to gain an advantage elsewhere.
Longer Answer: Let’s assume for a second that the Rangers’ performance against Sabathia would be the same regardless of who’s pitching for the Rangers(and the same for Hughes). This is almost certainly reasonable given that you’d put out the same lineup for either event thanks to the DH rule. In the NL, this is less cut and dry due to the strategy that needs to be employed in the later innings of a close ballgame.
It’s also reasonable to assume that teams don’t change their offensive philosophies unless they’re a) ahead by a number of runs or b) behind by a number of runs. A team ahead by one run or behind by one are going to try and score more runs using whatever means they have at their disposal (patience, power, speed, etc.) – one to erase the deficit, the other to pad the lead. In the event of a blowout you might see teams let up (specifically with regards to taking/stealing an extra base), but by that point it doesn’t matter who the opposing pitcher is. A team that gives up ten runs is almost certainly going to lose to a good playoff starter (which Sabathia/Pettitte/Lee are and Hughes/Wilson/Lewis may well be).
So if we assume that the same lineup will perform a similar (if not completely the same) way during a close game, then we can assume that the offense is a likely constant regardless of who is pitching for the Rangers.
If that’s the case, the variable is the choice of Rangers starter. You won’t find anyone who doesn’t believe that the Rangers aren’t more likely to win Game 1 with Lee on the mound. With Lee it’s a tossup, without him the Yankees are favored. But what that implies is that the Rangers are stronger with Lee on the mound regardless of the situation. Because of that, their chances to win go up when he pitches and go down when he doesn’t. The advantage you lose in Game 1 transfers to Game 3, and from Game 5 to Game 7. Why? Because just like the Rangers offense above, the Yankees are going to put out the same lineup for Lee whether he goes in Game 1 or in Game 3, and they’re going to take a similar approach regardless of what happened the two previous games.
Therefore, in order to argue that there’s an advantage to pitching Lee in 1/5 instead of 3/7, the argument has to center around the idea that creating four tossup matches (Sabathia/Lee and Hughes/Lewis) is better than having two games with an advantage (Lee/Hughes) and two without (Wilson/Sabathia).
Again, it’d be different if there was an expectation that Lee could pitch three times in the series (1,4,7), but that expectation doesn’t exist. The Rangers have to win at least two games not started by Cliff Lee to advance no matter when he pitches. Whether you want the four coinflips or the two sure things, that math doesn’t change.
This is just my reasoning anyway, I could well be wrong.
Lee has never pitched on short rest, and considering his recent bout of back problems, now is probably not the time to try it.
by dannijd on Oct 14, 2010 2:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Asked if he felt badly about the way Bevens lost what could have been the first World Series no-hitter, Larsen immediately pointed out how Bevens – unlike him – walked a lot of batters.
I certainly don’t know anything about Don Larsen personally, and he could be a really nice guy, but this just seems like a dick move.
Larsen was actually not a good pitcher
This is all from memory, but I remember watching a documentary on his WS postseason game, and I believe they said he almost didn’t get that start because of the way he performed in a previous game.
They interviewed him for the documentary and he seemed like a decent enough guy (take that for what it’s worth.) The WS perfect game was obviously the shining highlight for him in a mediocre career.
Maybe in the quote above he was just a bit defensive about it. Guys who don’t accomplish too much are usually pretty sensitive to challenges over what they did accomplish.
yes, he was hit hard in both his first appearance in the 1956 series and his previous start in the 1955 series. he wasn’t really a bad pitcher though, just a mediocre journeyman type.
by perfectdepth on Oct 14, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
For a journeyman pitcher like Larsen to have one shining moment like his perfect game just shows how baseball can make a minor figure into a memorable one in a short time – a game for Larsen, a single at bat for Bill Mazeroski.
I was in the library yesterday and saw there is a book-length study of Larsen’s perfect game, published last year (“Perfect”). And today they are commemorating the 50th anniversary of Bill Mazeroski’s Series-winning homer. Admittedly, Maz was an excellent second baseman, but without that homer he doesn’t make the Hall of Fame. Both events are still unprecedented, although Joe Carter and Roy Halladay have performed similar heroics.
by phillyinportland on Oct 14, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Admittedly, Maz was an excellent second baseman, but without that homer he doesn’t make the Hall of Fame.
That’s probably true, but really, he should have made it either way. I remember once reading a convincing analysis that concluded that Mazeroski was as good a defensive 2B as Ozzie Smith was a defensive SS, if not even better. He was off the charts.
I always liked the guy, mostly for what he’d done against the Yankees, but I also liked that he was a lifelong Pirate who was there every day for them. I know he won a lot of Gold Gloves and was considered the equivalent of Brooks Robinson for second basemen of that era. Today that might be enough to get into the Hall of Fame even without a lot of regular season hitting stats. We might see a test case of that when Omar Vizquel comes up for consideration.
by phillyinportland on Oct 14, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Manuel announces rotation of Halladay, Oswalt and Hamels for 1-3. Likely Blanton for 4 and Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels on normal rest for 5,6,7.
Bochy announced Sanchez would pitch game two. So its Oswalt vs Sanchez and Hamels vs Cain. Lets hope Big Joe will go out there with us up 2-1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WT-fxBNKs8
Na, Na, Na, gonna have a good time! Hey, hey, hey!!
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Oct 14, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s no way Blanton pitches game 4, especially if the Phillies are down 2 games to 1 or 3 to 0. Halladay is gettin’ the rock.
There’s no way Blanton pitches game 4, especially if the Phillies are down 2 games to 1
See 2009 World Series.
OT, but this quote is awesome:
Former NY Met, Current Texas Ranger Jeff Francoeur: “I always wanted to know what it was like to play meaningful baseball in New York and I’m going to have the opportunity.”
by youaretheman26 on Oct 14, 2010 12:06 PM EDT reply actions
The guys
at MCC seem pretty smart and everyone knows if you’re super smart your brain has telekinetic powers which they will probably use to help the Giants win (improper grammar FTW).
question
If you aggregated all pitchers, how much of a dropoff in performance is there if you go from four days’ rest to three days’ rest?
I know every pitcher is affected differently, but what’s the generic average?
well, in the 2010 NL, there were only 24 games started on 3 days’ rest. WHIP went from 1.34 (4 days) to 1.54 (3 days) and ERA went from 4.04 to 4.34. strikeout rate actually ticked up a bit (7.1 to 7.4), but SO/BB ratio dropped from 2.33 to 1.47. OPS allowed went from .733 to .777.
I think the trends you would pick out from this admittedly very small sample are that pitchers going on short rest seem to pitch away from contact (lower opponent BA—.261 to .257—but much higher walk rate—3.04 to 5.02) because hits seem to travel much further (.148 to .164 ISO).
by perfectdepth on Oct 14, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Halladay on 3 days rest in 2003...
3-0 in 3 starts.
23 innings, 4 runs, 2 earned, 0.78 ERA.
10 hits, 16 strikeouts, 0 walks, 1 home run.
now that, my friends, is sick.
he started 1 game on 3 days rest in each of 2004 and 2008. went 1-1, pitched 7 innings and gave up 3 runs both times.
by perfectdepth on Oct 14, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Are these numbers comparing all pitchers on 4 days rest to all pitchers on three, or only the pitchers who went on three (aggregated) to the same pitchers four day rest stats?
by dannijd on Oct 14, 2010 3:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Barry Bonds
The one great big black eye in Giants fandom.
"I remember being three and I wanted to be a baseball player, that's all I ever really wanted to be. That and Spider Man." -Raul Ibanez
by Jose and the Contrarians on Oct 14, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions
Not sure all Giants fans feel that way. In fact I would bet that they would throw out Barry Zito’s name before Barry Bonds.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
AJ Pierzynski
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Armando Benitez
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 14, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
"learning from your enemies"
Very interesting analyses from Amazin Avenue on what the Phils have done right over the last several years, and what the Mets could do to emulate them.
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/10/8/1736951/learning-from-your-enemies
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/10/14/1747849/learning-from-your-enemies-part-2-what-was-their-plan
Pat Burrell [to Shane Victorino]: I had such fuckin’ hopes for us.
by perfectdepth on Oct 14, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
1980 Phillies-Astros & Bruce Bochy
Good piece today in the Inquirer by Frank Fitzpatrick: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/homepage/20101014_Giants__manager_part_of_Phillies_lore.html?viewAll=y.
by phillyinportland on Oct 14, 2010 5:59 PM EDT reply actions

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