A Few Phillies Links For You, October 21, 2010: Giants Win, Enough Said
An abbreviated morning-after edition. Discussion thread though, so there's that.
The Second Guess: Was Oswalt the Phillies' best choice for ninth?
I still think it was the best choice under the circumstances, even if the outcome was bad.
Phillies hope Doc offers jolt in pivotal start
If he doesn't, it'll be decades of "CLIFF LEE WOULDA"s.
Lee May Prefer Phillies in Free Agency
wait what
Loss has Phils on brink, but hopes won't sink
Keep hope alive!
Phillies Dead Offense, Daughter Sets Mother on Fire, Meth Lab in Blue Bell, and Man Runs Over Kittens
Also known as your "Morning Pick-Me-Up" column.
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Lee prefers Philly? Awesome.
If it somehow worked out that he came back here, with H2O…wow.
I don’t expect it to happen but wow.
It surprises me that Lee even considers Philly considering the way he was traded away and totally shocked by it all.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
It would be really easy to dismiss this possibility as utter nonsense, but if we’ve learned one thing from the Sultan of Smug over the past two years, I guess its that you can’t rule anything out… no matter how unlikely.
I’m just so grateful there is a game today. Stewing over last night’s fiasco for two days would be so unbearable.
by Boundforbeach on Oct 21, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree, one of the beauties of baseball is that you usually only have to wait 24 hours for your shot at retribution. Thankfully I have tomorrow off, so win or lose, I am getting loaded tonight.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I don’t drink anymore so I suffer through all of it….‘07 small market steamroller Rockies, the ’09 OMG Why the fuck is Pedro out there if he can’t get his fastball past 83 mph. game 6, and the we rode that Leighton train for as long as we could overtime fail. Hopefully I won’t have to suffer anytime to soon.
Have to wonder about the credibility of that article since it ends with saying the Nationals may be in the mix.
by David S. Cohen on Oct 21, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Well they have the money to be in the mix. That’s about it.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
It’s possible with not spending the cash on Werth, Moyer off the books, and trade of Blanton. We could afford Lee. It will be even easier once Oswalt is off the books after next year.
Oswalt may still be here in 2012
Oswalt has a mutual option (I am pretty sure it became mutual when Oswalt agreed to the trade to Philly). What exactly does that mean?
I doubt that the team goes after Lee. He is going to command a big contract, both in terms of dollars and years, and the Phillies already have an awful lot of money tied up next year and in future years.
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not to go all talk radio, but my god can you imagine a rotation of Halladay-Lee-Oswalt-Hamels-Blanton? We would seriously screw ourselves long term, but the possibility of that rotation, especially in the playoffs is ungodly.
How do you figure that it would screw the team long term? Are you talking in terms of the ability to continue to acquire free agents to stay successful, or something else that I am missing?
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oswalt option
according to Cot’s, it’s a $16M club option with a $2M buyout, and the trade didn’t change the terms.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/philadelphia-phillies_18.html
by perfectdepth on Oct 21, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Baseball Reference had it as a mutual option with the buyout, and I remember reading it in the news at the time of the trade. If it is mutual- how does it get decided whether the player stays or goes if both sides are not in agreement.
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he really liked playing here… Plus a no-trade clause (which he has said would be a requirement in his next contract) would insure that Smuggles could not do it again.
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The world over.
Not a member or affiliated with McCOVEY CHRONICLES in ANY way/shape/form.
Despite all my hoarsely screamed threats SBNation cannot delete them from my profile.
by victor frankenstein on Oct 21, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, today actually will have 25% more hours than any other day ever
by SportingFanaticism on Oct 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, watching the Giants win with 3 good starters and a bunch of waiver wire, salary dump types mixed in gives me hope that the Phils might have a run or two left in them in the next couple seasons, despite the gloom and doom.
by EastFallowfield on Oct 21, 2010 8:40 AM EDT reply actions
That’s what pisses me off the most. They got Pat Burrell for FREE and Cody Ross only so he didn’t play for the Padres.
by Clyde Simmons on Oct 21, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
They also got Jose Guillen as a dumpster dive, though he isn’t playing due to injury, he was a help in their stretch run.
No, he was most definitely not.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 21, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Ummm....
Jose Guillen
Sept./Oct. wOBA .269
Sept./Oct. OPS: .604
Career UZR: -23.1
"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja
by Giant Torture on Oct 21, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
There's no more Bengie Molina to kick around anymore.
Meanwhile…deep in the heart of Texas the slowest man in all of baseball chuckles as he sees his plan for bitter revenge coming to fruition.
Not a member or affiliated with McCOVEY CHRONICLES in ANY way/shape/form.
Despite all my hoarsely screamed threats SBNation cannot delete them from my profile.
by victor frankenstein on Oct 21, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Happy accidents. Ask the Dodgers how it felt to be beat in the 2008 and 2009 NLCSes by a pair of outfielders they gave up on a little too soon.
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So you don’t remember how the phillies got JC Romero then?
by SportingFanaticism on Oct 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Inspired by Sports Radio: The Naming of Goats
The Naming of Goats is a difficult matter
But one we must tend to each post-losing-game;
Given manager, fielder and pitcher and batter
Means I tell you a goat can have FOUR DIFFERENT NAMES
Apologies to T.S.E.
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Oct 21, 2010 9:01 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Ok... Game 4 Goats...
Manager (going to use this loosely to include all coaching): Too many candidates here, but the top nominees are Sam Perlozzo (sending Carlos Ruiz in the fifth), and Rich Dubee/ Charlie Manuel for bullpen mismanagement.
Fielder: I only saw the last few innings with my own eyes, so I don’t have one here- while the Rollins error was ugly, no runs scored off of it, and he was a part of the double play to the next batter, so tough for me to go there.
Pitcher: Close call here, as I want to say both Durbin and Blanton- the former for coming out and pitching like crap, the latter for pitching so ineffectively that he could not make it out of the fifth, forcing the use of the former in a situation where he could not be pulled easily if things went south.
Batter: Impossible to name just one- so many of them K’ed on bad pitches with the score tight. Just bad at bats and plenty of blame to go around.
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
To be fair
Perlozzo took a chance on sending Rooo-iz (does anyone else loath the way McCarver pronounces it?), a dangerous one, to be sure, running on a short single against a gold glove CF, but we needed the run, at the time. He should have held him, definitely.
Rollins’ error sucked, but no harm, no foul, and he made four excellent plays as well.
Blanton did what Blanton often does. I can’t fault him. Durbin, though, shouldn’t have been used. Contreras should have batted for himself (2 outs, no runners!), and gone back out for another inning, especially because he only threw six pitches, and he’s out best middle-reliever.
It’s hard for me to fault the batters for this one. Most of them got good hits, and all 8 starters got at least one base hit. Victorino and Rollins (?) struck out looking at ball 4; there were some well-hit liners, and only one infield popup.
Ibanez…gone…Lidge…moved…freed up salary?
Cliff Lee is a bonus, if we could just free that up I’d be happy
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Oct 21, 2010 9:08 AM EDT reply actions
so If Ibeanez and Werth are gone, how do we have enough outfielders?
by Clyde Simmons on Oct 21, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Ugh… I would love to have Lee back, but hasn’t this season taught you that no matter how good the pitching is, you have to be able to hit?
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There aren’t a lot of easy/obvious ways to improve the offense right now. They kind of have to hope that the guys they have just do better for the next couple of seasons.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Oct 21, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I more meant that even if they could find a trade for Ibañez (doubtful) that frees up money, I don’t know that pitching is the best place to spend it (depending on the outfielders available in Free agency or via trades).
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Free Agency Outfielders
I would kill for Carl Crawford. I’m lukewarm on everyone else. The drop off from Ibanez to Francisco is there, but is it severe enough to offset acquiring Lee? I’m not sure.
I’ll answer it for you
Absolutely not. The upgrade in fielding you’d get would offset any sort of offensive edge that Ibanez has, if he has any edge at all
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Oct 21, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
If we move Lidge- who is going to close games?
I know Lidge drives all of us crazy, but the bullpen is going to be in flux over the winter as it is- Lidge, Madson, Baez (ugh) are under contract for next year. Contreras, Romero, And Durbin are not. I would try to sign Contreras, and let the other two (particularly Romero go), promote Bastardo, and then look for one more decent arm either on the farm (Worley/ Zagurski/ Mathieson ???? Although the latter two looked decidedly bad in their opportunities with the big league club this year) or on the free agent market. Moving Lidge means another hole in the bullpen and finding either a consistent set up guy (with Madson closing) or closer (with Madson staying in a set up role- he seems to do better there, although that may be a fluke considering the small sample size for him as a closer).
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Madson is the closer right now actually
He’s faces hirer quality opponents, Lidge cleans up after him
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Oct 21, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah yes...
But I think it has been determined that level of Manuel genius was indeed accidental- it is Madson because it is the eighth… The rest is just luck.
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 1:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That doesn’t take anything away from the fact that Madson is facing better opponents, intentional or unintentional
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Oct 21, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe the Giants will get a little overconfident
All it takes is for Doc to get us a W and we go home with Oswalt and Hamels. We got them right where we want them.
If we win tonight, it will be because Halladay pitches great or the bats keep it going. The Giants are playing with house money. According to most people they should not be in the spot they are. I doubt they get overconfident.
by PhilsForever on Oct 21, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Not really sure why I did this or what I am trying to prove...
Phillies
RISP…2-Out RBI…..LOB (Scoring Position/Total)
Game 1:…..0-4……..0…………..3/7
Game 2:…..2-10……4…………..5/8
Game 3:…..0-5……..0…………..4/7
Game 4:…..3-9……..2…………..4/6
Total………5-28……6………….16/28*
*Does not include Chooch being thrown out at home.
Giants
RISP…2-Out RBI…..LOB (Scoring Position/Total)
Game 1:…..1-5……..2……………4/7
Game 2:…..0-2……..0……………2/7
Game 3:…..3-7……..3……………1/3
Game 4:…..3-13……3……………5/9
Total………7-27…….8………….12/26
Other than Phllies just aren’t getting it done when it counts. They’ve been better at putting guys in scoring position, but they’ve just lacked those extra hits when they’re there.
The Phillies have been in every game and they’re still very much in this thing. If they get just one extra flare a week game with RISP – just one – a gorp… you get a groundball, you get a groundball with eyes… you get a dying quail, just one more dying quail a week game with RISP… and you’re in Yankee Stadium the World Series.
Interesting stats
It does look and has felt like they’ve had opportunities, but they have failed to take advantage of them.
The question is can they turn that around in the next three games? Maybe, I mean they did hit a ton of balls last night- which is a good sign.
Phillies- NLCS 1-2, and the bats are asleep
Eagles- 4-2 and Kolb is looking better
I had no problem with Oswalt pitching last night either. Shit I might have kept Madson out there. He was excellent
Yep.
Not a member or affiliated with McCOVEY CHRONICLES in ANY way/shape/form.
Despite all my hoarsely screamed threats SBNation cannot delete them from my profile.
by victor frankenstein on Oct 21, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
History says otherwise...
The Giants are one of few team’s Halladay has never beat. They have hit him hard in the past, and Game 1 was the first time he did not allow them five runs. I want to be wrong, but am bracing for the sad end of baseball season.
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And didn’t history say that the Phillies were always successful against Matt Cain? Good pitchers, small samples.
by phillyinportland on Oct 21, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
5 runs in that black hole is pretty solid, so the offense at least showed up yesterda, albeit with some missed opportunities. We just need to limit the mistakes and let Doc do his thing tonight and I’m confident we’ll be coming back to Philly for at least another game. I don’t really think the Giants are that much better than the Phils to be up 3-1, but it’s a funny game. Granted, I don’t think the way the Phils have been playing that they deserve to be up 3-1.
I’m not going to wallow in anger over yesterday’s loss because life is just too short. Suffice it to say that the management of pitchers was utterly atrocious. That game wasn’t just winnable – it was won and thrown away.
I totally agree
But what would you have done differently.
by dannijd on Oct 21, 2010 10:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I might’ve left Contreras in to bat for himself, since there was no one on base and two outs when he would have done so… then let him go out for a full inning. Failing that, the hook on Durbin has to be faster (or at least someone could have gone out to calm the fucker down). Those were the two biggies. I didn’t mind bringing Oswalt in.
those are the 2 moves I thought of. had no problem with Roy O coming in. Had a big problem with Jose coming out!
Also the lead off, 5 pitch walk by Blanton to Torres has zero justification! None
I didn’t mind the Contreras change, as he had pitched 2 innings the night prior. The Durbin hook needed to be way faster than it was.
who do you bring in? I have to admit, none of the options seemed attractive. I guess that’s the time to bring in Madson, to face Sandoval
could have used bastardo or JC to turn Fat Panda around to the right side. At that point anybody other than Durbin really. He had nothing last night
though I admit that at the time I wondered if Contreras was only meant to do one batter, since he’d gone two innings the day before…. in retrospect, then, if that’s the case, one has to wonder why he was left out there for two innings in a 3-0 game, when the other guys might’ve benefited from an inning….
Good morning.
In a few hours the Phillies will begin their comeback and we will be united in a common interest. Today we will be fighting for our postseason contention … Not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution… but from elimination.
We are fighting for our right to play.
And should we win the day, this October day will not be known as an American holiday, but as a Phillies Halladay, when we declared in one voice: “We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We’re going to play on! We’re going to survive! Today we celebrate our Halladay!”
I would have prefered him calling “Today we celebrate V-SF Day”, but Halladay definitely works.
by Off_The_Hook on Oct 21, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's my only argument about the Game 4 starting pitching choice
It seems like one of the big justifications of the “Lee out, Halladay in” move for this season was the acknowledgment that Lee’s unwillingness to take the ball on short rest hurt the Phillies in the ’09 WS. In Halladay we now had a workhorse gamer who would run through a brick wall to do whatever it takes to win etc. etc. cliche.
So now when they find themselves in a similar situation, they do the exact same thing and hold Halladay back. It is odd in light of some of the things that were said about Lee last year, that’s all. You “solved” for something you thought was a weakness last year and then failed to follow through with the solution.
by BigPhillyStyle on Oct 21, 2010 11:54 AM EDT reply actions
I thought the justification was the contract
Lee wanted to test free agency. Halladay agreed to a reasonable extension with the Phillies.
by Screen Name 20 on Oct 21, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
according to Bill Conlin last week on WIP that issue (Lee not demanding the ball in game 4, I think he did however say he would do what Charlie asked of him but I can quite remember) didnt sit well with some in the organization… who knows
The mention of both Conlin and WIP in this post
makes me assume it’s BS (not that you made it up, but that since it is from that source, there is no way it is trustworthy).
I agree the contract thing was probably some meaningful part of it.
by BigPhillyStyle on Oct 21, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is Kyle Kendrick on the postseason roster? If we can find no use for him in a game in which the starting pitcher goes 4.2 innings, there’s no use for him.
It’s also a standard thing come playoff time
by SportingFanaticism on Oct 21, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Standard to have your fifth starting pitcher as well as 3 bullpen pitchers who typically work multiple innings, as well as Joe Blanton who may or may not have started game 4 as of naming the roster? Ask Barry Zito about that.
So: Incorrect. Thanks for the snide remark, though. I’ll save it as a keepsake of a bitter NLCS.
It wasn’t intended to be snide, it was intended to indicate that most teams carry a ‘starter’ for mop up duty in the playoffs so as not to waste a starter or an actual relief pitcher.
But I do appreciate the over reaction, you’d honestly think the fate of the world was based on tonights game.
By the way – kyle kendrick being on the post season roster doesn’t matter one bit in regards to how the phillies have played or the outcome of any of the games…please remove the pole from your sphincter
by SportingFanaticism on Oct 21, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
They refer to this pitcher as the long man yes?
Jamie Moyer is used as well usually
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Oct 21, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh wait, that’s what long man means? I thought it was some sort of honorary title awarded in spring training
by SportingFanaticism on Oct 21, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
No no
the honorary title awarded in spring training is the “Erik Bedard”, awarded to the player with most upside, yet does not play a single game over a series of years due to injury
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Oct 21, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, I thought that was the Carl Pavano?
Jeez
by SportingFanaticism on Oct 21, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The comments in this article are pretty entertaining reading, if you can keep from getting angry. The ridiculousness of people all over the country is absurd.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Mike-Krukow-generalizes-both-Philly-and-San-Fran;ylt=Alo5r3UD6gPOQbLpubSp5qrO4d4?urn=mlb-278662

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