Phillies CF Shane Victorino claims third straight Gold Glove Award; Chase Utley stays sad
by WholeCamels on Nov 10, 2010 4:04 PM EST
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PrintPhiladelphia Phillies center fielder Shane Victorino has claimed yet another National League Gold Glove Award, his third consecutive award. Unlike in 2009, Victorino was actually a pretty good center fielder in 2010.
No other Phillies players claimed Gold Gloves, with Troy Tulowitzki claiming the (well-deserved) award at shortstop, Scott Rolen topping Placido Polanco at third base, and Michael Bourn and Carlos Gonzalez claiming the other outfield awards in lieu of the possibly deserving Jayson Werth. Also Yadier Molina, who has locked up the award at catcher for the duration of his career, much to the chagrin of Carlos Ruiz.
But yet again, one of the very finest defensive players in baseball, Chase Utley, gets snubbed. Brandon Phillips is a very good player and an excellent defensive second basemen, but Utley is just fantastic and has never gotten the credit he deserves. Boo.
End rant.
Catcher: Yadier Molina, Cardinals
First base: Albert Pujols, Cardinals
Second base: Brandon Phillips, Reds
Third base: Scott Rolen, Reds
Shortstop: Troy Tulowitzki, Rockies
Outfield: Michael Bourn, Astros
Outfield: Carlos Gonzalez, Rockies
Outfield: Shane Victorino, Phillies
Pitcher: Bronson Arroyo, Reds
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Thanks WC. This is far more thorough. I deleted mine.
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.
NL uzr/150 leaders
I know UZR isn’t the be-all, but here they are.
1B – 1 Ike Davis, 2 Adam LaRoche, 3 Derrek Lee (Pujols 5th)
2B – 1 Chase Utley, 2 Brandon Phillips, 3 Freddy Sanchez
3B – 1 Chase Headley, 2 Ryan Zimmerman, 3 Scott Rolen
SS – 1 Brendan Ryan, 2 Stephen Drew, 3 Troy Tulowitzki
OF – 1 Andres Torres, 2 Jay Bruce, 3 Michael Bourn, 4 Angel Pagan, 5 Will Venable, 6 Marlon Byrd, 7 Justin Upton, 8 Matt Holliday (?!?), 9 Jason Heyward, 10 Alfonso Soriano (?!?!?!)
Victorino 14th, Cargo 20th
Cargo was rated pretty high by fans scouting, maybe there’s something UZR isn’t picking up with him?
On my ride home tonight, I had the pleasure of listening to Missanelli say that Utley is an “average at best” second baseman. I’m guessing he would scoff at sabermetrics if I took the time to call this in.
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Nov 10, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
As much as I would have liked to see Utley win the award...
I can understand not giving it to him considering his prolonged stay on the DL this season. I would have been more surprised had he won.
I was more surprised that neither Polanco nor Ruiz won the award this year… Maybe the NL catching Gold Glove should just be re-named the Yadier Molina Award, just as the AL Gold Glove at shortstop should be called the Derek Jeter Award.
by dannijd on Nov 10, 2010 4:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Didn’t Tulowitzki spend a bunch of time on the DL as well? I’m pretty sure he and Utley played roughly the same amount of games.
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Yes, and I question giving the award to anyone who has missed a lot of time.
by dannijd on Nov 10, 2010 5:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes, Tulowitzki missed a great deal of time from Team Cody Ross (yes, that was my fantasy team owner name) this year, much to my chagrin.
I am not a witch.
by RememberthePhitans on Nov 10, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe the NL catching Gold Glove should just be re-named the Yadier Molina Award, just as the AL Gold Glove at shortstop should be called the Derek Jeter Award.
Difference being that Molina may actually be the greatest defensive catcher of all time. Dude isn’t winning based on reputation, uniform and Minka Kelly.
Phillips has been one of the best defensive 2b in baseball for the last few yrs. I can understand this. And Ruiz, also if there was a 1A & 1B, he definately deserves it, but yes, again, Molina is the best in the NL. He calls a great game, holds baserunners on, and doesn’t make too many errors. I don’t know who would win the pitching one though, they should just keep giving it to Greg Maddux until someone really deserves it.
Also, a little surprised Votto didn’t get it over Pujols. I don’t know how he was defensively, but if I remember correctly, the Reds had the best defensive infield in the NL, % wise. Not surprised to see Derrek Lee up there though.
Votto was 4th in UZR/150. Ike Davis’ was far-and-away the best in the NL. Almost two-and-a-half times higher than second place.
Not bad for a rookie.
Contreras and I were just looking at him eating this iguana thing over white rice and he put it away like it was a double cheeseburger, you know?
by LeepinLizardz on Nov 10, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
I hate Brandon Phillips for one reason, and one reason only: because he had the nerve to say that he’s better than Chase Utley. Eff you, Brandon.
by ThinMountainAir on Nov 10, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Gold glove would be certainly be nice, but I can’t get too worked up over Chase not being given due credit for his glove. 5 straight all star appearances, a member of SI’s all decade team, and ranked by the Sporting News as the #6 greatest current player in the game. That’s not all for his bat, but I hear you. If Jeter gets one…
Yeah, I didn’t even rant on Jeter. Unbelievable. Name value anyone? But honestly, I tried to think about this yesterday when I read this, but I can’t think of another AL SS that might deserve it. Cesar Izturis?
Funny, just looking over the names of the AL SS’s, I came across Ramirez, and he was a thought because he has been good D in the past, but didn’t think Andrus myself. Isn’t he more known for his bat?
I know Alexei was playing multiple positions in his rookie yr, but haven’t kept up on him much since then. Infact, I find I know a lot less about players in the AL now that I don’t play fantasy baseball anymore. Was Ramirez the highest rated SS in terms of UZR Taco?
the worst uzr/150s at each position
1B Troy Glaus
2B Skip Schumaker (by a lot!)
3B David Wright
SS Hanley Ramirez
OF Matt Kemp, Melky Cabrera, Carlos Lee
Due to his atleticism
I’m a little surprised to see Hanley on there. I know he looks like he’s half assing it sometimes, so I get that, but with his athleticism and arm, he shouldn’t be dragging the bottom.
As was I. I was also a little surprised to see David Wright on that list, as some had suggested that he was the best third baseman in the NL right now.
Some Mets fans, maybe.
The ones who don’t think he’s a choking dog and should be traded for Pablo Sandoval.
UZR has really liked Wright’s defense some years; other years not so much.
2005 -4.9
2006 -6.3
2007 +6.3
2008 +5.2
2009 -12.2
2010 -9.5
personally I have a hard time seeing Wright as a really awful third baseman, so results like 2009 and 2010 ring sort of false to me. just my opinion.
by perfectdepth on Nov 11, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
CHASE UTLEY BLAH BLAH DEREK JETER ETC. ETC. GOLD GLOVE VOTERS AWFUL!!!!!!!!!
Pretty much sums up my thoughts. I can’t bother to get too worked up about it given how awful some of the Gold Glove decisions have been over the years, but it does stink that Utley’s Hall of Fame candidacy (should he continue to play at a high level for several more years) will be damaged by the fact that he’s about 5 Gold Gloves light.
What is really going to get me steamed is if Robinson Cano wins AL MVP this year. From 2005-2008, Utley’s numbers were either just as good or much better (2007- although he missed time due to the broken hand) than Cano’s numbers from this year. And the highest Utley ever finished was 7th in voting in 2005. Seriously, the credit Utley gets is microscopic compared to Cano. When he hit 5 home runs during the World Series I had Yankees fans ask me if I knew that he was always such a great player. I wanted to pull my hair out!
Utley’s an odd case. He’s pretty much been universally liked and above criticism for most of his career in Philadelphia – but arguably for all the wrong reasons (“grittiness”, “hustle”, whiteness). Meanwhile he isn’t appreciated at all outside of Philadelphia. People everywhere should just recognize that he’s awesome and leave it at that.
Yeah, the whole Utley dynamic is strange. There are even some people who realize that he’s beloved for the grittiness/hustle/whiteness and consequently think he’s overrated — call it a misplaced Eckstein-esque rationale.
Anyway, I wouldn’t worry about Cano winning the AL MVP, cyhamels. I think Josh Hamilton’s got that one on lockdown.
Right, exactly! And conversely, there are some people who realize that he’s sabermetrically awesome and consequently conclude that Philadelphia fans must hate him!
I remember once reading an entire Fangraphs thread where it seemed like every commenter lived in this alternate reality. They were all like “Phillies fans are so dumb because they ignore Utley, but they love Howard instead because he’s so gritty and Howard because he gets RBIs” – WTF!
It’s like the opposite of the Donovan McNabb dynamic.
by FearTheTurtIe on Nov 10, 2010 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
have any of you been reading Colin Wyers’ recent work at Baseball Prospectus on the problems with defensive metrics? Lot of really interesting stuff…. anyway, yesterday he had an article about how the new metric they’ve come up with, nFRAA, shows that Jeter is actually even worse than the other advanced metrics have shown…
then he had a blogpost in which he listed the top performers at each position for 2010. Utley doesn’t make the 2nd basemen list at all, which shocked me. I’ll be interested to see the full list. Anyway, worth a look. (Also, in the blog post, he links back to his entries introducing the new metric, which link back to his other pieces about defensive statistics; none of them appear to be subscription req’d, as far as I can tell….)
I’ll have to go back and read those pieces. I like Wyers’ stuff.
I’ll say this much regarding Utley not being in the top ten via that metric: I’m a big believer in combining the different metrics out there to get the best view, and all of them out there right now (Plus/Minus, UZR, TotalZone, Tom Tango’s fan poll) agree that Utley’s a superb defender.
the new metric they’ve come up with, nFRAA, shows that Jeter is actually even worse than the other advanced metrics have shown
For some reason, I already believe that this metric must be more accurate than previous ones.
I am not a witch.
by RememberthePhitans on Nov 10, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I had no idea that Shane Victorino was 400' tall and lived underground.
I was hoping (but not expecting) Utley to win this year. Missing eleventybaconator games on the DL surely did not help.
As far as injustices go, though, it’s nowhere near Jeter’s winning the Jeter Jeter Award in the AL, so, hard to get too upset.
This article could have been worse, but not by much.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/14274557/no-stat-can-tell-tale-of-jeters-gold-glove-worthiness
The URL promises awfulness just by itself. I had to click through, just for the rubbernecking of awful. I was not disappointed. There was this nugget, for instance:
If you judge shortstops by who you want out there to catch the final out of the World Series, Jeter ranks near the top, or maybe even at the top.
On an unrelated note, does anyone know how to get vomit out of a keyboard?
I am not a witch.
by RememberthePhitans on Nov 10, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
Take 3 teaspoons of vinegar and mix it with a quart of hot water. Spray the mixture over your keyboard, repeatedly, without allowing it to dry. Turn the keyboard upside down over a bowl or sink or somesuch, allowing the “mixture” to drain out.
Then throw the keyboard away and buy a new one ‘cause this shit doesn’t work.
by Phrozen on Nov 10, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
“Pop-up! This should be it! Renteria ranges to his left and…drops the ball! The moment was too big for him! If only he was more Jeter-esque.”
To be fair, he suggests that King Felix win the Cy, over Count Lardbathia.
I’m in a snarky mood today, evidently
Count Lardbathia
It conjures images of tubs filled with unspeakable horrors.
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Nov 10, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
It's a trap
It’s like when Fox News has Alan Colmes on with 5 Conservatives so they can say “See, we show both sides of the debate.” It’s a carrot put out there to suggest reason.
C’mon TP. Break out the Jeter hard stuff you shared on e-mail today, just in case RTP has the vomit out of the keyboard already.
I love the “long quote of someone who completely agrees with me” rhetorical technique, because, apparently, there have never, ever been TWO Yankees fans who are assholes who agree with one another.
by Wet Luzinski on Nov 10, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
OMFG
Nice article, there.
Some people have never thought Jeter was that good defensively, but if they can kiss his five World Series rings and can repeat that sentiment over again, then they don’t know baseball or sports for that matter.
Are you kidding me?!? And she goes on to call our SS “Jemmy Rollins”. I don’t like to attack the low hanging fruit that is the typical Yankees fan, but this one sure is a prize.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
It’s kind of like Halloween candy for me. I indulge until I feel really bad about myself.
by Wet Luzinski on Nov 10, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, yes. Impeccable logic there.
“Jeter has five rings. Your argument is invalid.”
Or, since these are Yankee fans we’re talking about, it’s more likely:
Rational fan: Derek Jeter did not deserve to win the Gold Glove. According to nearly every metric, he has been one of the worst defensive shortstops in the league for some time now, and-
Yankee fan: COUNT JETAH’S RINGS BITCH (walks away)
by ThinMountainAir on Nov 10, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Some people
have never thought
Jeter was that good defensively
but
if:
they can kiss his ::five World Series rings::
and can repeat that sentiment over again
they can kiss his ::five World Series rings:: over again
then they don’t know baseball (or sports) for that
matter.
by Wet Luzinski on Nov 10, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
You have a gift, Wet L, of making even the most asinine ramblings sound like pure poetry.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Rec’d for shaping the banal into the sublime.
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Nov 10, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
This is sort of like the written equivalent of AutoTuning. I’m trying to sing it to myself.
It's Johnnie Walker inside.
by Lies and Perfidy on Nov 11, 2010 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
It almost scans well into a campy early 70s promo/jingle, like this one.
by Wet Luzinski on Nov 11, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
And she’s a journalism student at NYU. She does the one thing I despise in debates, she invalidates all arguments because no one else has ever played pro baseball, so no one else can possibly know who deserves the award. That’s just lazy logic. I hope she submits this for school and they revoke her scholarship.
Did you ever attend the journalism school at NYU? No? Then you cannot possibly understand her logic and must be a communist.
by Phrozen on Nov 11, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Danny Knobler’s an idiot. As Rob Neyer wrote today, even the Yankees know that Jeter’s a pretty awful shortstop, which is part of the reason the upcoming contract negotiations are likely to be so sticky (he needs to move positions, and soon).
You know, I’ve ceased getting actually angry about the Gold Gloves themselves because, well, I just expect it at this point. But I’m still bothered by articles like this every single year.
by PhillyFriar on Nov 10, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
We need to have a TGP version of the Razzie so we can give out nominations for atrocities in sports journalism. Who should it be named after? Who truly embodies the nadir?
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Nov 11, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Or perhaps
The Conlin (the he occasionally stumbles across a good paragraph or two).
OH HELL YES
I’m real happy for you and I’ma let you finish, but Jack McCaffrey is one of the worst sportswriters of all time.
Needz moar meme
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Nov 12, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The Deitch — for irrelevance, horrible writing, and creepy perversion in sports journalism for a minor suburban newsorgan.
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.
by FuquaManuel on Nov 11, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Why has no one proposed The Morgan? That seems rather obvious.
"I remember being three and I wanted to be a baseball player, that's all I ever really wanted to be. That and Spider Man." -Raul Ibanez
by Jose and the Contrarians on Nov 11, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think that’s more appropriate for atrocious sports commentary/announcing. Joe Morgan isn’t really a writer.
by ThinMountainAir on Nov 11, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
He isn’t really an “announcer,” either. It could just stand for all-around misinformation and uselessness.
I’d like to nominate a potential Marcus Hayes award for the most dickish, condescending opinion piece (no stats allowed).
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Paging Mr. Whole Camels...
“Sabreboy” graemlin needed plz
Excellent way to work Hayes into this.
by ThinMountainAir on Nov 11, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
The Cataldi-Conlin-McCaffrey-Buck-McCarver-Morgan Award for Journalistic Beshittedness.
by Phrozen on Nov 11, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If only...
we could get a handy acronym out of that – preferably one that spelled something witty.
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Nov 11, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
I called Brandon Phillips winning. I think Utley would have won had he played in more games. At least he should have. However, Polanco deserved one more than Rolen in my opinion.
By UZR
… and I think some other metrics, Utley saved more runs in fewer innings than Phillips.
I don’t deny utley was a better fielding second baseman than phillips this year, but because he was out so long, they were not gonna give it to him. It is unfortunate, but true.
by PhilsForever on Nov 11, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
SHOT FIRED, SHOTS FIRED!!! JOKE DOWN!!!!! WE HAVE A JOKE DOWN!!!!!! WE NEED A MEDICCCCCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Nov 11, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
More evidence of the completely confused, screwed-up nature of the town’s relationship with Chase Utley.
http://link.cinesport.com/services/player/bcpid634637915001?bclid=44273363001&bctid=672181879001
my view of the three infielders and how much they're appreciated
On a scale of 1-10:
How much appreciation do the three guys deserve?
Utley 10, Rollins 8, Howard 6
How much appreciation do they actually get?
Utley 10, Rollins 7, Howard 8
How much appreciation would they get if they were of the opposite race?
Utley 7, Rollins 8, Howard 7
I meant there were two in the pool of players I was discussing. Read as “the other guys’ race,” if that would be clearer.
I get it.
I just don’t necessarily agree, nor do I see your point. Is it that racists abound and are unfairly depreciating Howard and Howard?
Actually I think racists do abound. Probably 90% of the population, including the minorities, is at least a little bit racist. A lot of that is unconscious and unintentional, perhaps even well-meaning, but it’s there. I don’t think people should be berated for this or anything. But it should be recognized.
In other words, I think it’s part of human nature for people to favor those of their own race over those of other races, at least slightly, especially in societies where race tracks with cultural differences. I do not believe that Philadelphians are much better or worse than other Americans, nor do I believe that Americans are much better or worse than the rest of the world.
In this context, yeah I think if Jimmy Rollins were white, he would be better liked, and if Chase Utley were black, he would be less well liked. In Rollins’ case, I don’t think the difference is enormous. He’s reasonably well liked even as it is. And in Howard’s case, I actually don’t think his race affects his overall standing with the fans all that much, for reasons that are complicated.
Rolen’s pretty good at first to third, even now. He’s got some wheels, and Polanco’s getting older.
I am not a witch.
by RememberthePhitans on Nov 11, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
What does first to third have to do with fielding third base? Also, forgive me if I am wrong, but Scotty Rolen is no Spring chicken.
by dannijd on Nov 11, 2010 7:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They are the same age. Polanco’s UZR is 10.0 in 123 games at 3B and Rolen’s is 10.6 in 130 games at 3B. I thought Polly deserved it because he spent alot of his career at 2B. It’s impressive to change positions and perform as well as he did esp when he went from a position that requires less throwing skill to one that needs a very strong arm. This speaks to Polanco’s versatility (has played 2B, 3B, SS) and should have given Polly the nod over Rolen who has only played 3B. Not to mention he was playing injured.
“I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.”
“I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.”
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