Phillies eyeing Royals ace Zack Greinke?: Shameless Winter Meetings Rumor Mongering
by WholeCamels on Dec 8, 2010 6:38 PM EST
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PrintOh, hai Winter Meetings!
Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com reported on Daily News Live Sportsnight (UPDATE: and now in written form) that the Phillies have apparently inquired about acquiring Kansas City Royals ace and 2009 American League Cy Young Award winner Zack Greinke. Yes, extreme longshot, rumors, etc., but this is obviously worth following, and Salisbury is one of the most reliable sources for this kind of thing...
Side question: Is Ruben Amaro, Jr. clinically incapable of not looking into trades for other teams' aces?
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Goodbye Singleton, Cosart, Calvin. It was nice eagerly anticipating your progress through the Phillies farm system………
Formerly known as JFein.
Author at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter
Fuck I meant Colvin.
Formerly known as JFein.
Author at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter
Though if they want to take Jorrick Calvin, I’d be happy to see him traded.
Formerly known as JFein.
Author at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter
Delicious Delicious Non-Jeff Francouer rumors
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 8, 2010 6:46 PM EST reply actions
Doesn’t Greinke have some sort of anxiety disorder that has him scared of pitching in big markets? Isn’t Philadelphia kind of a big market?
Formerly known as JFein.
Author at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter
You’d be surprised what winning does to anxiety
Plus he’s been quoted as saying he’d listen to a trade if a team like the Yankees was involved
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 8, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
we should have signed & traded Frenchie
I've been waiting my whole life for an Eagles Championship
RIP JJ
by sports00fan00 on Dec 8, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Greinke would be fine so long as he pitched well.
But I don’t think there’s a chance in hell he could handle our fanbase if he hit a slump. Christ, the club would have to hire someone to take his shoelaces after a loss.
Paige's sparking personality is intoxicating; her beauty breathtaking; her intellectual prowess incomprehensible to mortals. Her radiance...her luster...drive men mad. Her omnipotence dangerous, yet alluring. It is her power that ensures gravity remains constant; her genius that inspires. She is not only responsible for the Earth's rotation, but may cure what ails the heart with a glance. I am Paige's pool boy...a serf to her ladyship. I am at her beck and call. I bow to her. I am not worthy. War Eagle.
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I don’t know about that. I think Phillies fans have been fairly soft on struggling Phils in recent years.
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I don’t know- it was just this past July that Victorino complained about the boo birds showing up at CBP- the phans may have softened, but they are far from soft.
by dannijd on Dec 8, 2010 9:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The fact that a player was surprised by boo birds is proof enough.
They’re not soft in relation to the rest of baseball, but I do think Phils fans are soft on the team in relation to themselves a decade ago or to other local teams.
And not that the Phillies haven’t generally earned a little leeway…
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He had social anxiety disorder. I think having a stable home life and some time to mature have helped a great deal. Y’all will have to forgive his wife for having been a Cowboys’ cheerleader.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
He has said that medications helped as well. I’m very happy for him, because I’ve known people with various mental illnesses (including major depression) and those pills can be tremendously ineffective. Social anxiety disorder can be one motherfucker of a disease, but he seems to have overcome it.
by ThinMountainAir on Dec 8, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
This feels like the Braves acquiring Denny Neagle as their fourth starter, which turned out to be a waste of resources.
Obviously Greinke is great, and he’s much more valuable than, say, Roy Oswalt because of his age. But a lot of that value would be wasted in 2011.
Totally agree. That being said, you are assuming that the Phillies would keep Oswalt, Halladay, and Hamels if they made the trade, something that I am not so sure happens.
Not necessarily traded to the Royals- Lee didn’t go to Toronto.
by dannijd on Dec 8, 2010 10:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, we’re getting into the law of diminishing returns here.
That said: Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt, Greinke, Blanton is a seriously awesome looking rotation. I assume we’d be saying goodbye to Vic, Colvin, Rizzotti and at least one other prospect.
Unless there’s sarcasm implied
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 8, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
I get what WC was going after saying, but I think you are right. As it is worded now, it is saying that Ruben Amaro has no ability to trade for other team’s aces. But knowing WC, there may be implied sarcasm and irony in there as CCB mentioned above me.
Formerly known as JFein.
Author at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter
Lil John is the last person that would’ve expected to watch hockey.
Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.
He knows how to get crunk – mc lars does too
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 8, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s some stupidity, made even more, um, stupider by the stupid people giving it weight.
Not a member or affiliated with McCOVEY CHRONICLES in ANY way/shape/form.
Despite all my hoarsely screamed threats SBNation cannot delete them from my profile.
by victor frankenstein on Dec 8, 2010 8:36 PM EST reply actions
Someone that wouldn’t even put their name on the byline.
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I dunno guys, dropping Yohan Flande is pretty strong evidence that Rowand is on his way. I mean, that is a pretty reasonable conclusion to make.
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with a guaranteed contract that could make him untradeable – expect to the Phillies
proof reading is so 1990’s
I've been waiting my whole life for an Eagles Championship
RIP JJ
by sports00fan00 on Dec 8, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Which of the prospects are "untouchable" now?
Last year it was Domonic Brown that wasn’t for sale. I’d assume that Brown would still be off the market & that would go for Jesse Biddle too. But this is an interesting trade inquiry & I’d be interested to see what Ruben would give up.
Do the Phillies really *want* Greinke?
Depends on the ask, of course, but his 2009 HR/9 was unnaturally low for him. For most of his career, it appears to be 1.0ish. In 2010 (the Cy Young year), it was 0.4, which was awesome, but does not appear to be consistent with ZG in any other year of his career.
His K/9 for 2010 was the lowest of the last four years (2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010). His ERA+ last year was exactly 100. His WAR, apart from the CYY of 2009, appears to be in the neighborhood of 3ish.
He is coming up on 27. He has some known issues, though presumably those can be dealt with.
I’m not sure I’d trade Hamels for him, straight up. Hamels was, I think, Verducci-ed in 2009. He looks to be a pretty solid 4ish WAR player. He seems consistent to me. Greinke? I dunno.
Does anyone have any theories about why he fell off a cliff last year, other than the fact that he just couldn’t be that good on HR balls forever?
I am not a witch.
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 8, 2010 10:06 PM EST reply actions
Greinke 2010 analysis
This was interesting. Read the comments, too.
I am not a witch.
by RememberthePhitans on Dec 8, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Hrm
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Dec 8, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone have any theories about why he fell off a cliff last year, other than the fact that he just couldn’t be that good on HR balls forever?
His pitch selection changed. Far fewer sliders and curveballs, more changeups. I think he was also missing his (velocity) slots on the changeup; the average speed was up about 1.5 mph at the same time as his fastball dropped 0.5 mph. A large part of his effectiveness has been being able to hit a dozen or so different speeds essentially at will. If his ability to change speeds is off, he’s less difficult to bat against.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
With a change-up though, do you think that could be more to do with grip issues? As to seeing less sliders and curves and more change-ups…that sounds like elbow issues. The change-up is one of the easiest on the arm. Great know I ’m really nervous about this
To be honest, I don’t know. I haven’t talked to him in years, and KC’s never on to see what his mechanics look like. His motion always looked fine to me when I saw him pitch, but my eyes aren’t as good as I’d like. I think (hope) it was a choice by the catcher, because it wasn’t a gradual trend, but a sudden change.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Rumor that young contract controlled pitcher is on the market
It would be malfeasance if every team in the league didn’t give a call. Hell I’m sure when it was rumored that D’backs were shopping Upton the phils put in a call.
“What would it take”
“Dom Brown”
“Nice talking to you”
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 8, 2010 10:32 PM EST reply actions
straight up? I think we need to revisit a thread form about a month ago.
"My grandmom's favorite grandson, ask my grandmom" --Rone
by layout ultimate on Dec 8, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
interestingly enough,
the roy halladay Cy young thread got hijacked by uggla and then talks of upton.
"My grandmom's favorite grandson, ask my grandmom" --Rone
by layout ultimate on Dec 8, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I realize that came out wrong. A trade for grienke would require brown and plus I’m sure.
Again, keep in mind that Gonazlez went for 3 of the top 10 prospects in the red sox organization and really you only get him for one year.
How many arbitration years does Grienke have left right now?
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 8, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, no doubt a Greinke trade will require us to give up at least one of Brown, Cosart, Colvin, and Singleton. Unless the Royals are royally stupid, of course.
I am not sure if I see a scenario where the Phillies would trade Hamels for Greinke. Or why the Royals, a team re-building, would particularly want Cole Hamels. It’s not like they have plans of contending this year.
Formerly known as JFein.
Author at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter
Varitek resigning. He’s really back-up only now. Getting rid of V-Mart (well he isn’t cheap either) and A-Gon. deal. 3 top prospects in a team that’s clearly looked like they were in transition mode is alot esp. a for 1st basemen. I don’t think they’re necessarily bad moves. Just not want I expected. I figured they keep Beltre which still is in the air. Beltre at 3rd and Youlk at first is pretty good and I can’t see how much more value A-Gon really adds. At least what it adds relative to 3 top prospects given that you can get quality, perhaps not like A-Gon – but ample enough much easier than other positions.
OT question? Digital comics (Marvel). Have you “collected” them (don’t know the right word here) and if so is it worth it?
I agree the Gonzalez trade seemed weird, since they already have Youk and his goofy ass batting stance. Not a great use of resources, IMO.
They didn’t want Beltre for the money he was asking for
Gonzalez is better than Beltre
and Youkilis along with being the greek god of walks is a pretty good 3rd baseman
I don’t know that you’d say I collected marvel digital comics but i have ‘obtained’ half a terrabyte worth of comics to read – it started out just with wanting to read the entire ultimate universe and grew with some patience :)
Varitek is a back up – so what – you need a back up catcher – i’d be more worried that they are depending on salty to be their starting catcher.
Gonzalez at 1st Youk at 3rd is an upgrade in my eyes
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 9, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if anyone is arguing it isn’t an upgrade. The question is was it enough of an upgrade to be worth 3 top prospects from a pretty good farm?
For a franchise who laughs at the concept of the slot and drafts well regardless – sure – it’s not like they’re drafting toolsy guys all the time and hoping they hit – they have one of the better run organizations – top to bottom – in the game
And isn’t that what prospects are for – (in one way) to improve your team so you can win now?
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 9, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Cliff Lee is going to get a crapload of money?
Cashman declined to offer details about the Yankees’ offer, but sources told ESPNNewYork.com and ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark that the initial offer was for six years and near $140 million — numbers that fall between the contracts for the New York Mets’ Johan Santana (6 years, $137.5 million) and the Yankees’ CC Sabathia (7 years, $161 million).
The Yankees may eventually be willing to go to $25 million per season for Lee, according to a baseball official.
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 8, 2010 10:51 PM EST reply actions
I mean… we gotta replace Moyer somehow, right?
Let the beasting begin.
by TransplantedFan on Dec 8, 2010 11:18 PM EST reply actions
It’s official! He’s ours! Welcome to the Phillies our newest pitcher………
Dennys Reyes! 1 year, $1.1M with a 2012 option. I assume he will be eating this dough.
Formerly known as JFein.
Author at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter
and
the sox just scooped up crawford for 7 years and a bit over 140 million
"My grandmom's favorite grandson, ask my grandmom" --Rone
by layout ultimate on Dec 9, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
I see no way in which they don’t win the AL East next year. Team is just ridiculous.
by philsandthrills on Dec 9, 2010 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
still thinlk the they could have been just as good with Youk at first and Beltre at 3rd and kept 3 top prospects
Beltre is much, much more uncertain than AGon. Two fantastic years, and a whole load of mediocre ones.
by philsandthrills on Dec 9, 2010 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
Oh definitely, but it’s more a question of marginal utility and supply. Are you really geting that much more esp. when it’s one position that has always had depth – he’s not a SS, 2B, 3B or CF and your a team in transition – 3 potentially cost controlled talents walked out the door for 1 year of service. Then again they lost V-Mart and resigned V-Dreck. That’s a downgrade and a half. Plus they have the Spankees to consider. I’m just suprised with how hobbled they were last year that they wouldn’t be more relucant to part with youth.
Don’t Beltres’ good years also correspond to contract years? Always hate that.
Varitek isn’t starting
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 9, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if Beltre is an exception or whether the correspondence with contract years is coincidence, but I thought I had read that there is no historical correlation between contract years and performance.
there isn’t; and, in fact, the last two years have been contract years for Beltre… 2009 was decidedly worse than 2010 for him.
Of course, he spent years in offense-depressing Safeco, then last year in Fenway. Seems more important to me.
Safeco was one of the worst possible places for Beltre. He is a right handed pull hitter, and LF in Seattle is vast. Whereas Boston has the Green Monster, off of which he bounced doubles all season long. Dude has been severely underrated for a long time.
by ThinMountainAir on Dec 10, 2010 1:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I never have a problem with 1 year contracts, especially one for 1.1 mil but I don’t really understand the point of signing a left handed reliever who doesn’t exactly excel at getting left handed hitters out.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
How much extra money do folks think that Cliff Lee made last night after the yankees watched the red sox get Crawford?
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 9, 2010 12:19 PM EST reply actions
15-20 mil….but what I haven’t heard people mention yet is that the Rangers can offer Lee less money than the Yankees, up to a point and he can still walk away with just as much in his pocket. For instance, NY tax is killer where as Texas has no state income tax so about 160-165 Mil in NY is about the same as 150-155 mil in Texas.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
The income tax argument is tiresome and I doubt makes a huge difference.
One espn chatter said, sure – but in the end you still want the biggest contract – the biggest overall value – for a pride thing
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 9, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Tiresome maybe but that doesn’t make it any less true.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Right, which does not change the point that a person may opt for the contract that has the most value, which is, what they take home, not the actual worth of the contract.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
This was actually a factor in Miami and Orlando attracting players to their NBA franchises. It is an more-open topic in that sport. Not so much in baseball, possibly because that complicates Boras’ mystique.
And in the NHL, for awhile there seemed to be an attempt to avoid this subject entirely. Players were paid in US $$, but during the early 2000s, this meant it would be wildly to the advantage of players to play for Tampa Bay or Dallas as opposed to Toronto or Ottawa or even New York.
Thinking about asking my employer for an 11-year contract.
Trade Leighton.
Haha, if this is true, I like to believe that RAJ was so upset over the criticism that he got for the Cliff Lee trade that now he’s overcompensating for aces:
2011 starting rotation:
Roy Halladay, Zach Greinke, Cole Hamels, Roy Oswalt, and uhh… Brandon Webb
2011 Farm System:
David Herndon (and that’s it)
El Camino! El El Camino!
The front is like a car, the back is like a truck!
The front is where you drive, the back is where you
El Camino! El El Camino!
Dom is tired
Previously very energetic 23-year-old D Brown is tired and sluggish and has left winter ball. Isn’t this extremely weird? Perhaps it is a RAJ plot to mute the fan outrage when we trade him for Greinke.
I felt like I thought it hit me - Chase Utley
Somewhere Brett Wallace is getting nervous.
by Cormican on Dec 9, 2010 8:30 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Matt Garza
MLBTR suggests he may be in play. I’d way prefer him to Greinke, since it might cost fewer prospects, is fairly equivalent to Greinke in overall performance, and his personality would work perfectly in Philly.
Thinking about asking my employer for an 11-year contract.
Trade Leighton.
I love me some Big Game Garza, however I have a ton of respect for Andrew Friedman as a GM and talent evaluator and I fear we could get fleeced for Garza. The one advantage in the Greinke situation is I think Dayton Moore is a schmuck, so the trade scenario is a little less scary there.
Imported mirco brews? How 'bout some soda.
In case you were in diapers when this came out link
I was in my room and I was just like staring at the wall thinking about everything.
But then again I was thinking about nothing
And then Rube came in and I didn’t even know he was there.
He called my name and I didn’t hear her and then he started screaming: J!, J!
And I go:
What, what’s the matter?
He goes:
What’s the matter with you?
I go:
There’s nothing wrong Rube.
He’s all:
Don’t tell me that, you’re on drugs!
I go:
No Rube I’m not on drugs I’m okay, I was just thinking you know, why don’t you get me a 5th starter
He goes:
NO you’re on drugs!
I go:
Rube I’m okay, I’m just thinking.
He goes:
No you’re not thinking, you’re on drugs! Normal people don’t be acting that way!
I go:
Rube just get me Harang, please
All I want is ugly ass Harang, and he wouldn’t give him to me
All I wanted was Harang, just one guy not named KK and he wouldn’t give it to me.
Just a guy like Harang.
It’s amazing what you can do on Twitter…..
/fake Greinke to Phillies rumor’d
Formerly known as JFein.
Author at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter
Amazing is an interesting word for it
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 10, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Heyman of SI published this this morning. Five teams named, none of them rhymes with sillies.
There are five teams in pursuit of Kansas City right-hander Zack Greinke: the Rangers, Nationals, Brewers, Dodgers and Blue Jays. The Royals have received some serious offers in discussions with these ballclubs.
In case you missed it (and cared) Frank McCourts Boston Lawyer will probably get sued for malpractice out of business as the messed up prenup was thrown out of court and Jamie ‘got half’ of the dodgers. I expect the sale talk to be coming shortly.
Anschutz is probably laughing all the way to bringing the chargers to LA
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 11, 2010 1:59 PM EST reply actions
This is what ESPN had to say about it
The biggest question isn’t whether the Phillies would like to have Greinke or even whether they could afford him for the next two seasons. It’s whether or not they could afford the trade price.
The Phillies top three prospects may be outfielder Domonic Brown, right-hander Jarred Cosart and first baseman Jonathan Singleton, and it might cost Philadelphia all three, and maybe more, to pry Greinke from the Royals. The fact that a numbers of other clubs are interested, such as the Toronto Blue Jays and Texas Rangers, doesn’t help Philly’s chances, and both of those teams appear to have more young talent to spare.
by SportingFanaticism on Dec 11, 2010 2:13 PM EST reply actions
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