John Dewan: Chase Utley Is Baseball's Best Player Since 2005
It's not Albert Pujols. It's not Alex Rodriguez. It's not Hanley Ramirez. Baseball's best player since 2005, according to John Dewan, is Chase Utley: "Summarizing the past five-plus seasons, we have Utley with 907 Total Runs and Pujols with 878. And that’s why I submit that Utley is currently baseball’s best. (By the way, over that time span, no one else is close; Jimmy Rollins is a distant third with 742 Total Runs)."
How's that so? Dewan's ratings of Utley's defense put him over the top, as Utley consistently dominates in the field according to Dewan.
And through May 12, Utley has been doing it again this year, with the most total runs in baseball once again.
(And let's not forget Jimmy Rollins, third since 2005, just showing what a special middle infield the Phillies have these days, and also how important their defense has been to the team's recent success.)
about 2 years ago
David S. Cohen
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If he is the best, why not MVP?
While I agree that Chase is one of the best all around players that I have seen (granted I have not seen much, and watching other second basemen tends to make me love Chase even more), why hasn’t he been named MVP while Rollins, Howard, and Pujols all have??? I love watching him and hope that one of these years he wins the title he so richly deserves.
Philadelphia: Phinally home to more than just a Hollywood Boxing Champ
- Drunken Bleachers
Re-sign Jayson Werth!!!!
"I never want to look back and wonder 'What if I had tried harder'"
- Chase Utley
It’s simple: HR and RBI numbers versus complex defensive evaluations.
by David S. Cohen on May 18, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The inability for people to see that Howard’s gaudy RBI numbers and having Utley and his fancy OBP directly in front of him are strongly correlated will always amaze me.
That’s not a knock on Howard at all, but it helps when you have one of the very best hitters on the planet supporting you.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on May 18, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, it’s also somewhat of a two-way street, though clearly to me not evenly divided. As a pitcher, I’d be inclined to let Utley hit a quasi-decent pitch well (and hope it’s just a single or an out) in the hopes I could strike Howard out. Of course this depends on the kind of pitcher I am.
If Howard starts to wake up at the plate, though, there’s just no getting through 3-4-5 easy.
by Wet Luzinski on May 18, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Howard and MVP awards
He’s on pace to hit .299, with 29 HRs, 127 RBIs, and 206 Hits. If Old School voters ignored his .835 OPS, that line would be good enough to get some significant MVP votes in many years.
I’d really love to know how many of those MVP votes are cast on just a final stat line? Or, perhaps worse, on name alone… I fear a great many are.
"I tried to run him over but Eli had his big boy pads on and he kind of stopped me from getting in the end zone. The next time I’ll try to jump over his head.’’ - Asante Samuel
by foos05 on May 18, 2010 12:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Old School evaluations still put RBI over all other stats. Probably a non-zero number of BBWAA voters just vote for the #1 RBI guy without any consideration of context.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on May 18, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Injuries? He probably would have won both years rollins and howard had it if not for injuries?
by jemagee on May 18, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, if you’re consistently, say, the third best player in baseball each year, then you can be the best player in baseball for a five-year period without ever being the best player in any particular year.
Just as an example, not saying that’s been the exact situation here.
Anybody else think because Utley is white and not flashy?? Race Card!
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on May 18, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, What can I say? ‘Looks at wife scared’
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on May 18, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
King of Awesome?
"I tried to run him over but Eli had his big boy pads on and he kind of stopped me from getting in the end zone. The next time I’ll try to jump over his head.’’ - Asante Samuel
by foos05 on May 18, 2010 12:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
also, kind of amazing/fortuitous about his tag line from Harry Kalas – “You are the man!” To his great good credit Utley lives up to it.
by Wet Luzinski on May 18, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Utley also has an incredibly favorable contract for the team, which adds even more value on top of his on-field awesomeness.
Keep Utley and Rollins together!
Now, those are two guys whom I strongly endorse rewarding with contract extensions.
Exactly.
I was actually talking with some people last night about how I love this Phillies team, but have the nagging feeling that the management still doesn’t realize exactly how this has happened. My point being, if you asked Ruben Amaro who the most important Phillie was, I suspect he might say Howard.
Wonder how many guys who never get MVP or Cy Young then go into the HOF first ballot. Bit premature perhaps, but only a bit. It’s shaping up that way.
This has actually been a big concern of mine over the past year or two — will Chase get into the Hall of Fame?
His case will be boosted immeasurably by the influx of the Law- and Neyer-types to the BBWAA, who realize precisely the point John Dewan is making here — that Utley’s peak puts him as (at the very least) a top five player in the game. The question then becomes, can he keep this up long enough to accumulate the counting stats that would sway voters of all types? Very few get in via the Sandy Koufax route (i.e. incredible peak but so-so career in totality), and given that the case for Utley is based in large part on defense and positional advantage, it would be very touch-and-go under those circumstances.
Unfortunately I don’t think we’ll ever get past the “But he haz moor RBIz!” mentality, as a whole…
"I tried to run him over but Eli had his big boy pads on and he kind of stopped me from getting in the end zone. The next time I’ll try to jump over his head.’’ - Asante Samuel
by foos05 on May 18, 2010 1:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
When you consider that Utley only recently got his 1,000th hit, he obviously has a long way to go before he gets serious HOF consideration. I think that Utley will be compared with Joe Morgan, Ryne Sandberg and Jeff Kent. If Utley can get to 2,000+ hits, 350 HRs, and not drop below .850 in OPS, his chances are good, especially if he gets an MVP. That means he needs to play at least 5 or 6 more years after this season.
by Derekcarstairs on May 18, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s fascinating to compare Utley to Jeff Kent.
Kent had a late career peak, not logging a full season’s worth of plate appearance until he was 25, and posting his best years in his Age 32 to 34 time frame. He finished with 2461 hits, 377 homers, and a .290/.356/.500 career line.
Utley hasn’t reached near the longevity of Kent, but his peak has arguably been just as good and has been longer sustained than Kent’s. Plus, throw in the fact that Kent was a pretty wretched defender, while Utley is the best in the game, and it looks like Utley has a solid chance at the Hall if he can age gracefully.
The difference there is going to be longevity. Morgan played 22 seasons, Sandberg 16. For Utley to hit 16 seasons, he’ll have to play to age 39.
Looking at 162 game averages and overall OPS:
Joe Morgan: 154 hits, 16 HR, .819 OPS
Ryne Sandberg: 179 hits, 21 HR, .795 OPS
Jeff Kent: 173 hits, 27 HR, .855 OPS
Chase Utley: 178 hits, 30 HR, .906 OPS
Now, Utley did come into the league a bit older and more polished than Morgan or Sandberg, and hasn’t had the age-related decline, but he’s definitely looking to be at least equal to Joe Morgan at the plate, even if he has a fairly steep decline over the next few years.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I think we’d have to first consider how many 2nd basemen are in the HOF and how many of those have an MVP to their credit. I mean, technically, the voters are supposed to compare bodies of work of candidates to those already inducted. Perhaps at this position, 2nd base doesn’t have the MVP attachment for first balloting…
Not trying to contradict, because I totally get your point… Perhaps it’s a bit different at this position.
"I tried to run him over but Eli had his big boy pads on and he kind of stopped me from getting in the end zone. The next time I’ll try to jump over his head.’’ - Asante Samuel
by foos05 on May 18, 2010 1:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
17 second basemen
Rod Carew, Eddie Collins (Sr), Johnny Evers, Nellie Fox, Frankie Frisch, Charlie Gehringer, Rogers Hornsby (twice), Joe Morgan (twice), Jackie Robinson, and Ryne Sandberg all won MVPs.
Bobby Doerr (7th), Billy Herman (3rd), Nap Lajoie (13th), Tony Lazzeri (3rd), Bill Mazeroski (8th), and Red Scoendienst (3rd) did not win MVP awards. The numbers are the highest position they ever achieved in the voting.
Bid McPhee played before the MVP award was instituted.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
wow. What era did Lajoie play in? I always regarded him as on of the all-time greats based on his career hits #s and batting avg. I’m shocked that he never made higher than 13th. I’ll go answer my own question…
1896-1916, 0.338 Career Batting Average, 3243 Hits. Won Triple Crown in 1901. The problem is that he played his good years before the MVP was instituted.
His 1911 line was 0.365/2/60 (triple crown stats); 1913 0.335/1/17
the real story here
is that the Phillies have 2 of the top 3 baseball players in the game since 2005 according to the Total Runs metric.
Now just think – if they had developed a guy at third this would be the best phillies infield of all time
by jemagee on May 18, 2010 5:46 PM EDT reply actions
Who is this Peanut of which you speak?
Philadelphia: Phinally home to more than just a Hollywood Boxing Champ
- Drunken Bleachers
Re-sign Jayson Werth!!!!
"I never want to look back and wonder 'What if I had tried harder'"
- Chase Utley
by dannijd on May 18, 2010 10:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am not trying for whether we grew him— I am trying for a name (please excuse the newbie to the blog!!!!)
Philadelphia: Phinally home to more than just a Hollywood Boxing Champ
- Drunken Bleachers
Re-sign Jayson Werth!!!!
"I never want to look back and wonder 'What if I had tried harder'"
- Chase Utley
by dannijd on May 18, 2010 11:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How did he get that name???
Philadelphia: Phinally home to more than just a Hollywood Boxing Champ
- Drunken Bleachers
Re-sign Jayson Werth!!!!
"I never want to look back and wonder 'What if I had tried harder'"
- Chase Utley
by dannijd on May 19, 2010 1:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes.
You can’t expect any team to develop a great player at every single position on the diamond, so the sentiment is kind of silly anyway.
Don’t expect it – kind of hope it
however they haven’t developed a 3rd baseman since rolen – nor do they really have one any time soon and if rollins ages they have nothing either…
by jemagee on May 18, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Third base is still a major organizational hole, but the Phils actually have two interesting shortstop prospects, Freddy Galvis and Jonathan Villar.
Galvis is a glove-first SS who is supposedly major-league-ready defensively right now, but he really just can’t hit at all. Though to his credit he has been promoted aggressively despite being young for his league at every stop, and at least he hasn’t been hitting worse as he’s advanced.
Villar has had struggles with the glove, but looks to be a better hitter, with a solid walk rate and the potential to develop some power. He’s going to need to cut down on strikeouts though to survive at higher levels, and he’ll have to improve defensively to stick at shortstop.
I suppose – i just like the idea of having 4 home grown players at the infield positions to make the best group of all time in one setting not howard utley and rollins were awesome but third base usually was mediocre
by jemagee on May 18, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Dodgers in the '70s
Not that they were the best all-time Dodgers at their positions by any means, but the Dodgers had one of the best home-grown infields that stayed together for a significant period of time: Steve Garvey, 1B; Davey Lopes, 2B; Bill Russell, SS; and Ron Cey, 3B. It took them a while but I think they were all together when they won the World Series in 1981. (They also had the home-grown catcher with them in Steve Yeager.)
by phillyinportland on May 19, 2010 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
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