Some Phillies Links for You, May 24, 2010: Bad Bats, Looking for Relief?
by WholeCamels on May 24, 2010 8:38 AM EDT
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PrintJoe Posnanski - Lima’s Time
Another fine entry from Joe Posnanski on the recently departed Jose Lima. Read it.
Phillies Notes: Offense buckles vs. knuckler
Remember that knuckleballs are really weird and can be really really hard to hit, especially for hitters who rarely see them. Sometimes you eat the bear...
Phillies want White Sox relievers?
Ruben, please don't make a panic trade. Bonus: "Should've kept Lee" reader comments at bottom!
Lidge aims for activation early next week
Well, I for one can't wait.
Do Phillies Have Chance to Get Oswalt?
Pllleeaaase, no more big prospect deals!!
Phillies Notebook: This is year when it all pays off for Phillies' Werth
Jayson Werth has played for this big payday and deserves it. Hopefully the Phillies can find a way for it to make sense within their budget.
New York Mets still have problems, but right now it's looking like Jason Bay isn't one of them
This is that adorable part of the season where the New York press anoints one of the Mets good players as a their New Overlord and raises him to a pedestal, only to knock him down when he hits a slump.
Dan Gross: A holiday with Ochocinco | Philadelphia Daily News
* "Hangover" star Zach Galifianakis hung out in the Phillies clubhouse before yesterday's loss to the Red Sox. The comedian spent most of his time there talking with Jayson Werth, Raul Ibanez, Brad Lidge and Greg Dobbs.
Does the Phillies clubhouse have ferns?
Minor Leagues: Colvin's strong outing leads Lakewood, 3-0 | Philadelphia Inquirer | 05/24/2010
Remember: Brody Colvin, Jarred Cosart, and Trevor May. Ruben will almost certainly be trading one of them this year for the likes of Will Ohman. So when people ask, sound smart.
Mets 6, Yankees 4: Canadian Bay-con - Amazin' Avenue
The Mets take two-of-three in the Subway Series over the weekend (or, as I like to call it, "Hope a Giant Meteor Strikes the Stadium Series").
Pirates Defeat Braves on Ryan Doumit's Walkoff Homer - Bucs Dugout
Braves fall to the Buccos 3-2 in 10 innings.
Washington Nationals Walk Off On Josh Willingham's 10th Inning HR, 4-3 Over Baltimore Orioles. - Federal Baseball
Another NL East game, another walkoff winner.
Fish Wrap - Marlins 13, White Sox 0 - FishStripes
Wow, that's a paddlin'.
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"Hope a Giant Meteor Strikes the Stadium Series"
Funny, that’s what I call any game where the Cowboys play the Patriots. Or any combination of the Penguins, Devils, and Rangers play each other.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I feel that way at those too. But when I saw the sume of all fears. I was like why couldn’t that be Dallas not Baltimore. Yanks Mets would be nice though.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
by Christopher A on May 24, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather see it during a Yanks-Red Sox series, but that’s because the Boston fans here are bloody annoying. At least while the Mets have Minaya and Manuel running things, they’re amusing to have in the division. If they get somebody competent in their FO, then I’ll agree with the Yankees-Mets sentiment.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I only feel that way when the Cowboys play the Giants… or when the Evil Empire plays the Mets…. if those teams were removed from circulation, they would not be missed…
Philadelphia: Phinally home to more than just a Hollywood Boxing Champ
- Drunken Bleachers
Re-sign Jayson Werth!!!!
"I never want to look back and wonder 'What if I had tried harder'"
- Chase Utley
If Amaro is true to his word about re-building the farm, how can he trade for someone like Oswalt? The Astros’ owner will want a serious package of prospects to deal Oswalt.
Oswalt’s salary is another issue.
Although the Phils’ starting pitching may be a little short come playoff time, I’d rather they bring back Pedro than trade for Oswalt or Lee.
by Derekcarstairs on May 24, 2010 10:24 AM EDT reply actions
The GM is Ed Wade- fan of marginal, limited skill former Phillies (Myers, Feliz, Michaels, Bourn). We may be able to get away with offering Kendrick, Mayberry and Galvis. I may be exagerrating some, but if anyone is going to overvalue a Phillies prospect, I think it would be Wade.
Myers, Feliz, and Michaels were all picked up as bargain-basement free agents, not in trades. Bourn is actually a half-decent player, and was acquired for Brad Lidge, who in the final analysis was neither the 2008 Lidge nor the 2009 Lidge, but was a decent but not spectacular closer who at the time of the deal was in the final year of his contract.
Wade has his faults, but most of the criticism that he gets these days is pretty uninformed. He does not have a history of overvaluing prospects. He made three bad trades during his tenure as the Phillies’ GM – Schilling, Rolen, and Polanco – but only one of those three trades was for prospects. (Also, I question how much more of a return he could have gotten for Schilling or Rolen. Both had demanded trades and were dead set on leaving once they hit free agency, thus depressing their market values. For the same reason, Oswalt may not deserve a great return.)
In fact, if there’s one thing Wade does well, it’s valuing prospects accurately. Our current run is creditable, first and foremost, to Wade’s ability to distinguish his good prospects from his not-so-good ones. He made plenty of prospect trades during his tenure (Taylor Buchholz, Elizardo Ramirez, etc.), but always got it right when he decided to make a particular prospect untouchable.
Wade has become a sort of Internet boogeyman that people now lazily ascribe all kinds of faults to regardless of whether they have any relationship to his actual record. His main problem was wasting free-agent contracts on middle relievers and other undeserving types. Player development was a strength. Negotiating good contracts with existing players was a strength. Making trades wasn’t a strength but it wasn’t a huge weakness either. Pat Gillick made just as many bad trades as Wade did.
by taco pal on May 24, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
read an article on Philly.com about Wade— and one of the things that it did was make me appreciate how much of our current success is attributable to him. He not only drafted many of the great players we have now, but was smart enough to value the future. In the interview, he mentioned that he could have made a trade for Barry Zito in his prime… but that it would have cost him Chase Utley, Ryan Madson, and another player whose name I did not recognize… and that making tis deal would have meant that we would not have been where we are today. It made me realize how much baseball, maybe more than any of the other professional sports is a game of time— what one GM brings in in terms of prospects is something that often another one gets the credit for by the time those prospects get to the major league and become successful. I
the only story I remember hearing when the Phillies won the WS was how this was Ed Wade’s team.
i still don’t think that Ruben has traded anyone who should have been “untouchable”. Then again, the only guy you can really argue for is Drabek.
by Clyde Simmons on May 24, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
TP has tempered my Wade criticism drastically. Still, the over-the-barrel Wade opportunity is here that feels a lot like Schilling ca. 2001. Still, people forget at the time, Travis Lee was gilt-edged at the time (tho’ right now looks a helluva lot like the White Sox slumparific Gordon Beckham.)
/fantasy rage’d
by Wet Luzinski on May 24, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks WL. Although, while this is gratifying to hear, I hope my epitaph someday will have something better on it than “effectively defended Ed Wade.” Bleah.
As long as it comes after, “Consistently folded all laundry in a timely manner,” then you have your priorities in order.
Wade’s predicament in Houston is so similar (maybe with the one exception being the ballpark) that I’d wager:
1) he’s probably learned the hard way about stars under contract who demand trades, esp. as he wasn’t the guy who signed that contract.
2) he doesn’t need “right now” players on the roster like he did with the Phillies. This go-round, the guys he should want for Oswalt should be the ones at about the draft/A-ball level to back up what by the accounts I’ve read are pretty good high-minor prospect. He might be just as well advised to let Oswalt rot & wait for picks.
by Wet Luzinski on May 24, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I read Cormican’s post as not saying that Wade has a penchant for over-valuing prospects in general, but that he has a penchant for over-valuing players from the Phillies organization. Which may not hold up to close scrutiny, but certainly seems like it on the surface.
I don’t think so. Three of the four players he mentioned were picked up as stopgaps, for essentially nothing. Other than Bourn, when has he acquired an ex-Phillie who actually cost him something?
Missing the point
Wade has picked up a lot of ex-Phillies. That’s really all this is about.
No, the original point that started this discussion was that perhaps we would be able to get Oswalt for cheap – i.e. that Wade has an ex-Phillie fetish that would cause him to give up something of value for less than it’s worth. A generalized affinity for ex-Phillies when no cost is involved wouldn’t have been relevant to the original point.
I remember when Pat Gillick accepted the Commissioner’s Trophy in the clubhouse in 2008 the FIRST PERSON he thanked and gave credit to was Ed Wade. I thought this was incredibly classy and spoke volumes.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
that was what I was remembering earlier. I heard that and thought the same thing.
by Clyde Simmons on May 24, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
My earlier mention was not so much to whom the Phillies credited their success— I remember that as well, and appreciated the class it took to do that. I was more talking about the fact that most people, including many in the media, etc. give Amaro and Gillick a lot of credit for the team and forget that Wade was the one that started the ball rolling.
Hoping for a 3-way with Seattle that will bring Cliff Lee back for 24 hours, get us all excited, and then ship him to Houston.
by Wet Luzinski on May 24, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
lol.
Philadelphia: Phinally home to more than just a Hollywood Boxing Champ
- Drunken Bleachers
Re-sign Jayson Werth!!!!
"I never want to look back and wonder 'What if I had tried harder'"
- Chase Utley
and his teeth come from the Big Book of British Smiles!
by Wet Luzinski on May 24, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
considering the money he makes, he has no reason not to fix that.
by Clyde Simmons on May 24, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
If we had kept Cliff Lee, he clearly would have held the Red Sox to -1 runs on Saturday allowing us to win.
I forced myself to remember (as I was feeling that pang on Sunday afternoon) that Lee gave up 8 runs on Friday night. It may not have been any better. That being said, I alternate between wanting an Oswalt trade (largely at moments when I am putting up with Kyle Kendrick pitching), and feeling incredibly angry with the idea (how can you tell me in the winter that we could not afford to lose the prospects to keep Cliff Lee, then trade away prospects to bring Oswalt in. That being said— there is absolutely no desire in my universe to see Pedro Martinez back… visions of Hidekei Matsui’s World Series Homerun still play in my head.
Philadelphia: Phinally home to more than just a Hollywood Boxing Champ
- Drunken Bleachers
Re-sign Jayson Werth!!!!
"I never want to look back and wonder 'What if I had tried harder'"
- Chase Utley
I thought this article was going to be much more than it was, but there was this:
Jayson Werth, who had one of the Phillies’ five hits off Wakefield, said he likes the challenge of facing a knuckleball pitcher because it reminds him of another kind of game that he used to love playing as a kid.
“It’s like backyard Wiffle Ball,” Werth said. “Swing hard in case you hit it.”
Maybe a quibble given this team doesn’t see a knuckleballer all that often, but I feel this is a poor approach for knuckleballs and wiffleballs. Just what was Milt Thompson’s game plan? I will admit to there being room for debate – looking at Wakefield’s splits, free swingers like Vlad Guerrero own the guy – but I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s the typical profile.
Also, beyond the bad defense there continues to be really strange, passive baserunning. The Phillies are waiting around for the 3-run HR. From Juan Castro and Paul Hoover, apparently.
On one hand, it could happen!!!!
On the other, I can look at the lineup card for the night and tell when the offense is going to desperately need the longball to make it work. If Castro, Schneider/Hoover, and the pitcher is the 7-8-9, it is going to be a long day, as even if 3-6 hit decently, there are going to be a lot of players stranded… the Phillies are going to need to learn how to manufacture runs if that is going to be the order of the day often (and possibly even with Ruiz back in the lineup if his hitting does not come back around).
The Phillies DO NOT need Oswalt. The rotation has been a strength thus far…I don’t know why we are even talking about this.
A playoff rotation of Halladay, Hamels and Blanton (or Happ), is looking pretty damn good to me right now. ::Knocks on wood not to kinx it::
Depends on the price, of course. You can always improve any area of your team. But I doubt that the price will be right.
that’s my feelings on the matter…if they want to just give him to us that is another matter.
by Clyde Simmons on May 24, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
And, of course, “the price” has dual meaning here: I don’t think the organization will be too keen on adding a player making Oswalt’s salary.
by PhillyFriar on May 24, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. The “right price” for the Phillies would be 1) a C prospect or two and 2) the Astros eat most of Oswalt’s salary. I can see one of those two conditions actually happening in a trade for Oswalt, but not both.
Based on the Astros dogshit farm system, I’m think they’d prefer to get a better prospect haul and eat more salary, but who knows?
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on May 24, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
from a fan perspective I know that would be the case.
by Clyde Simmons on May 24, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's another link for you
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/three-fake-trades-kansas-city-royals/
A fake trade proposed by THT’s Josh Fisher:
“Trade Joakim Soria to the Phillies for Antonio Bastardo, Domingo Santana and Phillippe Aumont.”
Thoughts?
by Crashburn Alley on May 24, 2010 1:10 PM EDT reply actions
I think the why not? sums it up pretty well…. Because he’s young, cheap and good.
by Boundforbeach on May 24, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Bill, if he were a lefty, I’d think harder about this one.
by Wet Luzinski on May 24, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I should expound on my reasoning a bit, I guess.
Bastardo is the only one who can help the big league club at all over the next two years. More than likely, the absolute best thing you’re getting out of Bastardo and Aumont is a pair of back end relievers — I’ve never been sold on Aumont as a starter, and even to make it as a back-end reliever, he’s got to fix the issues with his mechanics and command. That could certainly happen, but we need to appreciate the inherent risk.
On to Santana: he’s a really good looking young prospect, but he’s far from can’t miss. He’s not the kind of guy you give away (given the upside), but he’s one that’s available for the right price (given the downside). And Soria is the right price.
Soria is nasty. Career 10.2 K/9, 2.6 BB/9, 0.74 HR/9, 3.27 xFIP. He’s the best closer nobody knows about because the Royals don’t win any games for him to close. He makes $3 million this year (less than J.C. Romero), $4 million next year, and has $6 million, $8 million, and $8.75 million options in the years after that. Pulling the trigger on this deal, then getting Madson back healthy, gives you a powerful trio of righthanders at the back of the pen (Soria, Madson, Contreras), and you’ve still got Lidge kicking around. I know you’re left with Romero as your only lefty, but Madson’s change up makes him every bit as effective against lefties as he is against righties, so it’s not really a major flaw.
It comes down to this: do I trade three non premium prospects for a premium, in his prime MLB talent with a team-friendly contract? Absolutely.
by PhillyFriar on May 24, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so this answers my question – who gets the lefties out? So in that case, let’s make a deal. Thanks PF.
I’d wager real hard that the Phillies reflexively think along the lines of my first reaction, so I doubt anything like this gets pulled off.
by Wet Luzinski on May 24, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
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