Some Phillies Links For You, May 3, 2010: Zzzzzzap! Tasered!, Bullpen Bluez, Bye Rat...
by WholeCamels on May 4, 2010 8:16 AM EDT
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PrintFrom brotherly love to 'Don't taze me, bro' for Phillies fan
I want to personally thank this guy for making me have to defend his actions for the rest of my life when out-of-towners invoke all the usual suspects in the world of Philadelphia fan savagery.
The700Level.com - New Video: Fan Tasered for Running Onto Field at Citizens Bank Park
Tasers are potentially lethal instruments, there was no reason why it had to be used in this instance.
Phillies Notebook: Lidge, Romero need to return to form soon for Phillies
At least Brad Lidge looked good last night (although he teased us last year with some nice outings, too).
Blanton solid in return, but Phils take loss | phillies.com: News
Speaks volumes as to the team's faith in its bullpen that Blanton stayed out there, and then was replaced with Nelson Effing Figueroa, the Man with No Strikeout Pitch.
Phillies fans stubborn Lee faithful | Philadelphia Daily News
Fans notoriously don't look past the present, and it's not their jobs to do so.
Braves' Wagner to retire at end of season | Philadelphia Daily News
90% sure this is a drama queen move. That said, if the Braves are out of the race come July (unlikely), I'd bring him back.
Bullpen blues: Toe injury could sideline Madson for a 'significant' stretch.
Nice one, Ryan. Next time, kick Dubee or something.
Crashburn Alley - Video: Howard, Ibanez, Halladay Q&A
Great find: Video of Ryan Howard, Raul Ibanez, and Roy Halladay taking questions at the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce gathering this past offseason.
Phillies Notes: Rollins will need more time to heal
More good news...
Minor Leagues: Indians beat IronPigs, 4-1
I think Joe Savery is just about done as a serious prospect.
NL Quick Pitch: Move over, a star is born with Ubaldo Jimenez
The guy has just been ridiculous so far. Getting ahead of myself, but winning a Cy Young Award while pitching in Colorado would be an amazing achievement. That said, Go Doc!
Reds 3, Mets 2: Nix Blasts Off, Acosta Accosted - Amazin' Avenue
Mets lose in 11 innings.
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Haha, I love the youtube videos of guys running around on the field while security chases them down. I’ve been to…
- The 4th and 26 game.
- The Phillies/Braves Game 6 clincher to get to the WS in ’93.
- The Philles/Dodgers Game 5 clincher to get to the WS last year.
- A bench-clearing brawl involving the Phillies and Marlins (I think it started with Todd Pratt vs. Miguel Cabrera).
- The Duke/Kentucky “Christian Laettner game” at the Spectrum, which some people call the best college hoops game of all time.
And yet, the one thing that’s missing from my “I was at that game resume” is an incident with a guy that jumps the fence and runs around. Maybe some day…
This reminds me of the game I went to during the Eagles’ lost ’05 season against the Pack where:
1. Some clown ran onto the middle of the field during play to spread his mother’s ashes.
2. Favre managed to out-flub McMahon.
Berries are nice, but Graham crackers taste pretty good too.
by alcatraz0109 on May 4, 2010 11:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I once caught a short film on the mlb network that involved a guy spreading his friends ashes on a certain part of fenway…he went about it in a more rational practical way – good flick
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
tasering
not sure how often they’re fatal, but I’m pretty sure you don’t hear about how often they’re not. That being said…
Don’t wanna get tasered?
Stay of the damn field.
The problem’s not necessarily with the taser itself, but with the attitude that tends to come with them. There was a study published in the American Journal of Cardiology last year. Fifty cities provided data on pre-deployment and post-deployment incidents. The researchers took a five-year average of incidents before tasers were deployed. In the first year after deployment, the rate of in-custody sudden death increased 640%, and the rate of firearm death increased 230%. Those rates then declined until they reached the pre-deployment averages over the next four years. The concept of the taser as non-lethal, rather than less-lethal, leads to an excessive tendency to use the taser in situations where its use may not be warranted.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
maybe if the rent-a-cop wasn’t so fat he wouldn’t have needed to tazer the kid. Seriously, there were 6 people chasing him.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
and where was the kid going to go? Seriously? he was in a stadium with 4 exits surrounded by security.
Using a tazer there only makes you look brutal if you are the police. There was zero possibility the kid was getting away, he wasn’t harming anyone physically, and was unarmed. The only reason to use it is that he was embarrassing the police because he couldn’t run as fast as him.
Now the internet is swarmed with movies of this kid getting tazered because it was funny. The tazer singlehandedly made this a national media topic for DAYS….watch. Meanwhile a fan can dump a beer on Shane Victorino catching a fly ball and that will only get a 5 second spot on sports center.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
The whole point of the tazer is to prevent injuries. What happened this time? No one got hurt.
This is a baseball website, please don’t turn this back into a political discussion again.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
It became one after I posted this. I saw it coming and I wasn’t going to come. This website I thought was about baseball, not what is an appropriate level of force for police to use against someone who broke the law, and then resisted arrest by flight. These political discussions always seem to develop here. I really enjoy the baseball talk, but wish people would find another forum for political talk.
If they had tackled him and he died from that, then we’d hear crying that they should have just let him run until he was tired or why didn’t they taze him to end it without the tackling. Very few people on this website have encountered a situation where they had to make life or death decisions in a split second.
The officer’s job was to arrest him. He made a split second decision to minimize the risk to everyone there (himself, security staff, the suspect who turned out to be a juvenile, and the players). Is it the right or wrong decision? I was at the game… I was surprised the tazer was out, however I also am not going to judge the officer. It quickly ended what was a very disruptive part of my otherwise fun game. My first thought was… I hope that puts an end to this field running nonsense, especially on drunk college kid dollar dog nights. If you have problems with the level of force used, talk to your legislature about making tazers illegal.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
“Politics” is a part of everything in life. You can’t cordon it off. When public policy issues intersect with baseball, I don’t see any reason why people shouldn’t debate them on this or any other blog, as long as it’s done in the same spirit in which we debate everything else.
Personally I doubt that a lawsuit against the police department would go anywhere, and I actually do have some sympathy for the difficulty of the officer’s situation. But I still think he made the wrong decision and there isn’t anything wrong with any of us saying so.
No, theres nothing wrong with anyone saying it. My point was I hoped this was not the place it would be said. I come here to read about baseball. Not monday morning quarterbacking of a policemans job.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is, the mere suggestion of attempting to remove any and all political discussion from this (or any) site is itself a political suggestion.
I get the strange feeling this is somehow derailing back towards Jacques Derrida. Or at least Noam Chomsky.
Not quite. But this call to banish political discussion from this site reminds me of David Horowitz’s campaign for “academic freedom” or efforts in the historical profession for a completely neutral interpretation of history. These calls are of course themselves political and have a clear political goal. A neutral history is still a politicized history, its just a politicized history that comports with the politics of the person calling for a neutral history. Does that make sense or am I just babbling? I’m confusing myself!
We’re condemned to freedom. A choice not to choose remains a choice!
I choose a life full of tasty appetizers.
Rooted in Sartre. Undermines your (I think that was you?) argument that all postmodernism is gobbeldy-gook.
Well, really, he critiqued Marx in a number of ways, but he also sympathized with and adapted to his own work a number of Marx’s early ideas.
I’m thinking specifically of “Critique of Dialectical Reason”.
Yes, a pretty solid intellectual defense of early Marx, but also a strong critique in many ways. I can only imagine how he struggled with scientific Marxism. Those continental dudes would’ve been much more kindly viewed by history if they had stayed out of ethics altogether. But then we would’ve had even more gobbledy-gook. Pick your poison.
EJL, feel free to object to the turn this took. Yikes.
Did my undergrad in philosophy (among other things). Ended up doing a lot of reading about postmodernism and media-determined-reality. Beer makes me able to watch baseball and not be TOO annoying.
No, you’re right on. Especially in terms of baseball talk, saying that we’d like to ignore politics is a way of politicizing the discussion in the direction of the “classic” baseball-as-national-diversion-and-metaphor. I always notice it when people like Milton Bradley or Gary Sheffield — as cartoonish as they can be — are demeaned and dismissed when they bring up valid racial concerns in baseball because “baseball isn’t racist.”
Anyway, thanks for saying this in a better way than I could figure out; simply shrugging shoulders and saying “Welp, he’s a police officer so, reasonable doubt right?” is as political a statement as any other.
What injuries were prevented?
He wasn’t a threat to anyone. Why couldn’t they tackle him like, I dunno, what has happened to every other person who ran out onto the field in the history of forever?
Ask monika seles about whether or not he was a threat.
You have no idea what the INTENT of any idiot is when they run on the field…he broke the law
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Get the hell out of here with that. Agreed when they initially run on, but this kid was clearly just a yahoo who ran much faster than Officer Chubbo, by the time he was tased.
Agreed
I think his intent was pretty clear once he got out there; to run around and make a fool of himself and the security chasing him.
by Screen Name 20 on May 4, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
that is not the point of a tazer. The point of a tazer is to reduce a threat to someones life. The 17 year old kid already running in circles for 15 seconds was not a threat to anyone’s life.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
In fairness, if you’re the guy chasing the kid, you’ve suddenly become a clown against your will for the amusement of 45,000+ people. Honestly, I can’t blame him.
All the more reason you shouldn’t tazer a 17 year old kid being an idiot.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re belaboring the point that he was only 17. It’s not like the kid showed his ID before he jumped on the field or was yelling “I’m only 17!” as he was running around.
You’re acting like he has to prove he’s not dangerous in order for the police not to taze him. But that’s wrong. In order for tazing to be appropriate, there has to be proof that the subject is dangerous. Simply running onto the field, by itself, does not prove that the person is dangerous. More broadly, simply breaking the law, by itself, does not justify tazing, unless you believe there’s no such thing as “excessive force.”
The point is… Let’s say he has a concealed weapon as he’s running, looks harmless, but then suddenly pulls out a gun and shoots Jayson Werth. The next day, everyone is saying “The security guard had a taser. Why didn’t he use it?”
Fine.
The police do not have a right to use semi-lethal force against someone just because he might, hypothetically, harm someone else.
The police only have the right to use semi-lethal force if they have a good reason to believe that they’re protecting someone, not just that it’s a hypothetical possibility. It’s, frankly, better to risk that you won’t get react in time before Jayson Werth gets killed, than it is to affirmatively go out and harm people while knowing that there is a strong possibility that they are not dangerous.
Plenty of history involving people running onto the field and attacking people with awful results...
You run onto the field, you’re a threat, period. No sympathy from me whatsoever if you get tasered.
No one is asking for your sympathy, though.That’s not what this is about. This is a matter of our police officers understanding basic police procedure.
By standard procedure, police force must correspond to the level of resistance put forth by subject. This kid who ran on the field had not yet displayed any level of physical resistance against the cops and had not demonstrated that he was a violent threat, and the cops had not yet used a takedown on him, so he was wrong to skip several steps on the continuum and resort immediately to using his taser.
i'm with you Dawk
how anyone is defending this kid getting tazzed is beyond me. 17, 37, don’t run on the field and act like an ass, and you won’t have to worry about a tazer ever hitting your ass.
by criticizing the actions of the officers
it may be perceived by some to be a defense of the kid. it’s not like the officer put a bullet in his leg, then i’d be right there with you guys in bashing the officer.
You can criticize the actions of one party without defending the other party, if someone is unable to perceive that difference, that’s their problem. The kid’s a moron, the officer went a little overboard in front of 40,000+ people. I’m now going to be stuck with people talking about Philly being the town with a jail cell in the stadium and tasering fans.
Yes, the kid should have stayed in his seat, but that doesn’t mean you immediately ramp your response up to taser.
I hear you, but its the basic strategy of defense lawyers around the world
put the emphasis of blame on the other party, and redirect the opinion of the jury, or in this case the court of public opinion.
As to whether or not the officers went overboard or not, that is i guess for each of us to decide for ourselves whether its the case. i guess me being a Mets fan kind of skews my judgement a little, huh? :)
I understand what you are saying, but that is not the way it works. You can’t assume the worst in this world. Imagine if I just shot everyone I thought might rob me on the street at night…I’d be in jail.
The point is this “person” (since they didn’t know he was 17), jumped over the fence, not running towards anyone in particular, not acting like he concealed anything and run in circles like an idiot on the field.
Meanwhile, the police chased him. The only reason he was tased is because the cop was getting embarrased that he couldn’t catch him and the fans were cheering.
It was the wrong use of force, and now there is a national media spotlight on the indecent. I am sure that the incident will get a million views on youtube. It brings negative attention that was not necessary had the cop just tackled a guy being an idiot on the field, given him a hefty fine and a night in jail like he is supposed to.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is this "person" (since they didn’t know he was 17)
Haha, thank you.
I hear where you’re coming from too, in that maybe it isn’t the correct police procedure. I just don’t have a problem with the tasing, even if it were my kid. In fact, if and when I have kids… shock collar.
I said that because it wasn’t important to my point, but the kid looked like he was at maximum 20. I actually am surprised we have not heard anything about underage drinking.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
So you feel less force should be used to subdue someone who is 20 and probably at their peak physical condition in their life?
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
did I say anything about more force being needed on a 40 year old? I just said that the guys age was not important to my argument, why are you trying to put words in my mouth?
You seem to be here just to cause trouble.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
My apologies then…
All the more reason you shouldn’t tazer a 17 year old kid being an idiot.
and
the kid looked like he was at maximum 20
made me think you thought age played a role. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
does the fact that he’s a minor not matter what so ever?
Younger people are normally idiots just because. Tell me you never did something stupid when you were younger. Aren’t you glad they would have considered you a minor?
So yes, in this case I do think that the age should have been something the police officer considered, but that goes along with everything else I mentioned (not threatening anyone or acting like he had anything concealed).
And as for your BS apology, you are just proving my point that you are on here looking for a fight.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If you wish to think it was a BS apology, think that. I misinterpreted your words so I apologized. You don’t want to accept.. thats your business.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
you can’t continue to argue your point right after I just explained it twice and apologize in the same sentence.
Not to mention you have already attacked me previously in this same thread with some mish-mash about this being a political arguement.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You are misreading the sentence. It was showing why I was confused and an apology for it. Not everything is a personal attack. Its easy to misinterpret the written word.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, sorry my initial comment wasn’t directed at you… Just in general. I should have not hit reply to your comment.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, in that case I am sorry for taking it as a personal attack.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
To do it over again, I would have posted a new thread saying “I hope this doesn’t explode into hundreds of posts about tazering” haha.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently he was there with his dad (not with a bunch of frat boys) and he asked his dad if he could run out on the field. His dad advised him not to, but he did it anyway.
Here it is. I actually got the details wrong. He called his dad at home.
He was there with friends, but his friends didn’t dare him to do it or anything like that.
haha a shock collar would have probably prevented this
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrlSqDe-_-Q
This may have ended it faster
by EJL on May 4, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking that the dad would have shocked the kid upon phone call, but that works too
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh.. lol I still can’t believe the kid actually asked his dad that. My dad would have had stronger words than I don’t think thats a good idea.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
My father didn’t teach me jack squat but i still know it’s dumb to run on to a baseball field.
Some things are just common sense
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe if the rent-a-cop wasn’t so fat he wouldn’t have needed to tazer the kid. Seriously, there were 6 people chasing him.
Maybe if the kid was a complete and utter frack tard, he wouldn’t have had to be tasered.
If you don’t want to get tasered or tackle – don’t run on the field…if you run on the field (and are committing a crime folks, it’s criminal trespass) – tough crap.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions
Morons are morons – i prefer that they don’t breed – so i’m not going to feel bad if a moron gets tasered for doing something one who is not a moron shouldn’t do.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey – it’s an eco friendly theory I think – if morons weren’t allowed to breed, the planet would last longer.
I just don’t feel bad for the kid…I’m not going to – he did something stupid and illegal and everyone knows it’s stupid and illegal…I feel bad for folks who get punished when they didn’t do something wrong…but maybe this deters a few people in the future from being, you know, stupid…i’m ok with that.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
By that rationale
Should anything be off limits to the authorities, since it might teach somebody a lesson?
Just curious.
Yeah cause that’s what i said
He broke the law
people find it entertaining
but he broke the law
and as for not being a ‘threat’ to anyone
I’m sure that’s what they thought when the fool walked onto a tennis court – right before he stabbed monika seles
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Firstly
It’s Monica.
Secondly, why tasers have become a first option I don’t know. They’re a lethal weapon. They’re “less lethal”. But they’re lethal. When they were being introduced, we were sold a bill of goods by the authorities: “These will allow us to use less-lethal methods when we would otherwise be required to use lethal force!”. Now they’re used as a compliance device. People DIE from taser use. It’s rare, but people DIE.
He was an idiot running onto the field. In the history of that happening, the security has just tackled the guy and dragged him off. Why is this incident so much different that they had to bring out the weapons?
Then using something different, bean bags, I don’t care, but I don’t feel bad for a guy.
When you tackle a guy you can crack a rib, puncture a lung, who knows…there’s risk in things…this guy decided to risk running on the field…
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not about feeling bad for the kid, it’s about whether it was a stupid risk for the officer to take. You have no idea if the person you are tasering has a congenital heart defect, where a taser could kill him . Running on the field is stupid and you deserve a hefty fine, some cool down time in a cell and some com munity service. You don’t deserve the risk of dying for it.
lets not even talk about the kid here…lets talk about how much national attention tasering someone in front of 45,000 people brought to the Philadelphia police, and this kid.
It is dumb, and does the exact opposite of what not putting people running on the field on TV is trying to do.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
what if the officer tackled him and the weight caused a rib to break and puncture a lung?
to play the game of what if, is kind of pointless. we don’t know what could’ve happened, and we can play the if this, then that game all day…i’ve been to hundreds of games since i’ve been alive, and at no age did i feel like running on any field, drunk or sober.
i bet you my man will never run on the field again.
While the issue of whether that type of worldview is correct is obviously a much more important one, a more obvious problem is that it doesn’t even make all that much sense unless it comes from someone who’s, you know, unusually intelligent.
Well thank goodness we have you here to arbiter who is and isn’t right?
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
1. “Arbiter” isn’t a verb. 2. One doesn’t really have to be an expert in the field in order to see who is and who isn’t.
And that’s all I’m going to say about that.
Your oh so subtle digs aside…I still stand by my believe that what happened to the kid is his own fucking fault…and really couldn’t care if he got hurt cause if he had stayed in hise seat he wouldn’t have been tased
As for intelligence, I’m so glad I have you to tell me whether I have it or not, because until I knew how you felt, my life was incomplete.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I know you like to think of anyone who does anything that doesn’t please you as a moron, but with all due respect, I don’t think one’s intellectual capacity and their predilection for running around on a baseball field are necessarily mutually exclusive.
Agreed. You can tell a lot more about a person’s intelligence from being familiar with his/her blog commenting history than you can from observing a single incident on a single night.
Obviously, the act of running out onto the field is rather stupid, but that, by itself, does not justify tazing. Nor does the fact that the act is illegal.
Also, to be a police officer in Philadelphia you only need a GED. Let’s not dismiss the possibility that the cop is as much or more of a “moron” than the kid he tased.
It’s not like the Philadelphia Police Department hasn’t demonstrated over the years a basic lack of understanding of the principle of proportional force.
I thought that was what the hefty fine and night in jail was for?
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Getting back to baseball – that was a pretty piss-poor display of managing by Mackanin last night. Blanton was in his first game back from injury rehab. He had only gone five in his last rehab start in AA. There’s no way he should have even been out there to start the seventh. And then to leave him in there for another, what, four batters after the Stavinoha homer was just criminal. Pin that loss on the acting manager.
Figueroa’s strikeout ability actually isn’t terrible (just under 6 per 9 in his career) and I’m not going to kill the decision to use him, although it’s not what I would have done. If Figueroa starts the seventh instead of coming in with the bases loaded, there’s a good chance we win that game.
agreed
That said I’m not totally bumming on last night’s loss because there were two big positives (Blanton looking good, Lidge looking sharp) that are probably more important going forward. Had it been a divisional opponent, I might feel differently.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
Low in general or low for a first start back…I would think a guy on his first start back should be at a lower pitch count threshold then if he had been pitching all season…especially one the size of JB.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
If no one else has it for you and you really want to know in 9 hours – I can run a count for you :)
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Phew, now I don’t have to tax my limited intelligence.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Blanton’s pitch count at the end of each inning:
1st – 8
2nd – 22
3rd – 30
4th – 49
5th – 61
6th – 79
pulled after 6.2 at a pitch count of 94
Honor is no substitute for victory.
How did he look to start the 7th? 80 pitches in a first start against the ‘real’ major leaguers seems like enough?
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
And yet…good pitchers…throw bad pitches…sometimes…so…the question…was…not one of a mistake…but….overall control…how’d…it look…that’s why i asked…someone who wasn’t you
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
It was up. He started pitching up in the zone….like he was tired.
He should have been pulled
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
How was it handled (I was in class larning about XML) at the time…did they even talk to him or just ‘let him work through it’? Is it possible the ejection had anything to do with him being left in there too long.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I was flipping back and forth between the flyers and the Phillies. I flipped it when the HR was hit. He hung a curve ball.
by Clyde Simmons on May 4, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
thanks – seems to corroborate my ‘venezuelans are a nutty bunch’ explanation
i couldn’t find any resolution to that proposed law – have to love authoritarian governments for fun stories like that. personally, i hope it didn’t pass, so our dream of Stalin Lopez v. Hitler Garcia still has a slim chance of happening. imagine the game thread title….
That would be an awesome boxing match, if it didn’t happen as a baseball game.
Or soccer. Especially if their goalies. The phrase “Hitler saves!” running through my head is enough cognitive dissonance to almost have me giggling.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Announcer 1: Man, this Hitler guy is just killing ‘em out there.
Announcer 2: Oh, they’re making a change, this call to the bullpen brought to you by Red Bull, looks like Stalin will be brought in to eliminate the scoring threat.
Announcer 1: So Stalin for the Save, as the New York Yankees go for World Series #57. They really seem to have embraced the whole Evil Empire caricature a little too enthusiastically.
All they’d need are Hochiminh Sanchez and Polpot Jimenez to finish it off.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
What, no Mao?
"I remember being three and I wanted to be a baseball player, that's all I ever really wanted to be. That and Spider Man." -Raul Ibanez
by Jose and the Contrarians on May 4, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, here’s another article! (this one from the NYT)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/weekinreview/07romero.html
This one has the line I was looking for about Chavez’s seeming acceptance of Carlos the Jackal (Ilich Ramirez Sanchez) due, in part, to his name (and his namesake).
I have to imagine your above suggestion of Bush would have the exact opposite effect with that guy.
My favorite name in that article is Rosaherbalaif. I might have to use that for my own daughter someday.
Don’t tase me bro
The Kolb Era has begun....
Kolb - a heavy medieval war club with a spiked or flanged metal head, used to crush armor - Wikipedia of course
I've been waiting my whole life for an Eagles Championship
RIP JJ
Nicely played.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on May 4, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You run onto the field, you are a risk to everyone on the field. The Owners have millions of dollars of investments on the field. They choose to protect these investments on the field. If you repeatedly disobey orders from those individuals in charge of protecting millions of dollars, you face protective measures. In this case, tazing was that protective measure. What happens if the fan has needles on him, or he was able to sneak something past security, and in the process of tackling the individual, the security guard injures himself. By using a tazer, everyone at the end of the event is safe.
Don’t run onto the field. End of story
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on May 4, 2010 1:08 PM EDT reply actions
I believe he was referring to heroin junkies which carry needles many places.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but unfortunately Citizens Bank Park isn’t a magical place wherein rules that regulate police behavior don’t apply. Just because there are baseball players on the field doesn’t give the police free reign to use a less lethal firearm before using a physical takedown (given the level of resistance put forth by the trespasser, and what the cop could ascertain about the threat he posed).
Right. And if you’re a police officer, you can’t increase the level of force you use just because the person you’re supposedly protecting is a “million dollar investment.”
Do you have a copy of Philadelphia Police Use of Force Orders? Do you know for a fact he violated his training?
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you familiar with it? Not a snarky question, I’m curious what the guideline is in this situation. An important piece of information in a debate like this I’d think – it focuses where the perceived problem is actually located: with an individual judgement, or a possible procedural flaw.
I’m not familiar with Philadelphia’s no… I’m hoping someone is because I’m curious. I am familiar with what was the military police use of force rules a few years back. It was much more general than wikipedias.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
My main concern isn’t whether the police officer acted within the scope of his training (it’s apparent that he did at this point), it’s that I just really think Tazers are a less-than-ideal means of control.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
I agree. I think in very limited situations they are useful, but generally officers are taught to over use them.
by EJL on May 4, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Please stop sir
Please stop sir
Please stop sir
Please stop sir
When someone doesn’t listen, you keep your distance and perform the safest maneuver, a tazer. Especially when the suspect in question could attempt to physically hurt the police officer. You don’t know what this fan could or could not be on. Due to the numerous extraneous variables, the cop performed a REASONABLE AMOUNT OF FORCE
if you would like to complain about unreasonable amount of force, go watch a rodney king video. That was a substantial argument, this is not
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on May 4, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
No, these are actually the next steps after using a verbal command:
Use wrist/arm lock
Use takedown
Block/punch/kick
Strike suspect
Wrestle suspect
oh right, because if the officer performs one of these manuevers incorrectly, the victim files a complaint and a lawsuit arises. By using one simple action, he ended the situation without any physical harm
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on May 4, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not clear to me that these constitute less force than using a taser. Tasering is presumably more likely to be lethal (though still extremely unlikely) but seems to be far less likely to result in non-lethal injuries to any party.
When the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation received every case report of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, their data analysis showed that one out of every three persons shot with a Taser required medical attention due to injuries suffered from the incident. It’s probably better than a baton, and definitely better than a standard firearm, but unless a person poses an imminent threat of causing significant bodily harm to another, a taser is probably not the best choice.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I'm having trouble finding a link to this
What you don’t say is that the injuries, whatever they were, were directly caused by the tasering. For instance, if the subject crumples like a sack of potatoes which running away, such as our friend did on Monday night, he could conceivably sustain injuries that would require hospitalization, but that wouldn’t necessarily be any different than those that might be suffered if the subject were tackled instead.
FWIW, I have found a report that the RCMP was replacing a large number of Tasers due to faulty units in service. Some of these units were apparently delivering a stronger current than the manufacturer specified, up to 50% higher in some cases. If this was contributory towards the number of injuries suffered by Tasered subjects in Canada, it would appear to be an indictment of the RCMP’s deployment of Tasers, not the weapons themselves.
The injury stats are from here. 910 of 3,226 had to go to a medical facility.
The faulty units problem is also not limited to the RCMP. Quebec recalled every TASER after their units were also found to deliver more voltage than rated. Alberta has tested all of theirs after fifty units failed to remain within limits. Working independently, an article in the Journal of the National Academy of Forensic Engineers found that some TASERs delivered 39 times the rated voltage, which makes the Canadian 1.5 times seem positively tame. The US Army has also determined that they can cause ventricular fibrillation (same article), and use of them for training is discouraged because of excessive risk.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I’m looking forward to the Gloria Allred press conference and lawsuit
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 1:45 PM EDT reply actions
Brave New World
Hell, maybe the police were being too nice. They could have shot the kid with the brand new 12 Gauge XREP Taser Shotgun (wireless, of course). Coming soon to a stadium near you courtesy of Taser, the self proclaimed leaders in “…Less Lethal Technology…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQHai-MkDkM&feature=player_embedded
I woudl think pellets would hurt more than bean bags…just htinking of the ‘impact’ – to me the bean bag knocks you over – when yo usay pellets i think about what my step father used to use to go hunting and make us dinner…god i hated that
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
We used to have pellet gun wars growing up with my friends. Rule was 3 pump max so it wouldn’t break the skin. But it always ended the same way — someone getting pissed and pumping it about 12 times.
by Boundforbeach on May 4, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
How did your parents feel about you buying drugs?:)
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s kind of how my mom was, too late to be a beatnik to early to be a hippie – i found some in the freezer once – she said ’that’s my pot – put it back’
College advice was ’don’t drink too much’
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
My mom was an ob/gyn – i got that talk LONG before college
and high school
and middle school
2 spoons, oreo cookie, i learned the parts of the female reproductive system, at like 7
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I am a product of the Philly public schools and their wonderful sex education curriculum.
I learned about chlamydia from the same people who timed how quickly I could run a mile and refereed our dodgeball games.
I unfrotunately went to the Lower Merion school District where my ‘gym/health’ teacher thought bringing in aborted fetuses and some 20 something young lady to tell us about the horrors of abrotion was a kid idea.
I don’t think she expected a 16 year old kid to stand up to her…i know my teacher didn’t.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I was 16 and dressed down my tool Congressman when he made a thinly-veiled “Contract with America” campaign stop at my high school in 1994. Called him out on school prayer amendment and cutting lunch subsidies; “So you want to make us pray, but won’t let us eat?”
http://www.thegoodphight.com
I just had sex with my congressman’s daughter instead.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on May 4, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I stopped standing for the pledge in like 7th grade, i just didn’t feel like it it was awesome when i found out i didn’t have to
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I had a teacher take a swing at a kid who failed to stand for the Pledge.
In 6th grade.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
I got choked by my 8th great history teach er (a little) but i deserved it
The Space Shuttle blew up while i was in gym class, i made a joke – i didn’t think people were serious
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, um, that’s not something i ever would have done as a child…toy guns weren’t even allowed in my house.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe time for another over/under/never event:
Another fan gets taser’d for running onto a MLB field in 2010, playoffs included. Date: Oct. 2.5.
Extra credit if we name the fan’s team?
by Boundforbeach on May 4, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
is it tasered or tased?
Chase Utley is so good that on one pitch he stole second, third and the shortstop's hat.
I picked a hell of a day to have to do a take home exam. Everything from discussing excessive force to Sartre to Venezuelan names. Glad you crazy kids had fun!
I’m not going to get involved with the above debates over right or wrong. I enjoy seeing dumb people get tased, This cracked me up.
How's your wife and my kids?
If you don’t relinquish your lead for more than 15 seconds, there will be 13 people holding you down and taking turns tasing you. We’ll be glad to film it so that you can enjoy watching it later…
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on May 4, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I
Wrote an article about it for my blog. If you want to read it heres the link
http://fanvsfan.com/articles/dont-tase-me-bro-why-the-cop-acted-way-to-harshly
If you dont have the time basically I just ask those that are the “players could have been hurt” people if they say the kid? He wasnt all that menacing and was the smallest person on the field. A lot of pro cop people are bringing up the incedent in KC a bunch of years ago but im pretty sure the dad and son werent waving a rally towle before the started to try to stab the guy.
Obviously the players didnt find him a threat because they were cracking up laughing. Lazy cop is all it was
by Doug Pederson MVP on May 5, 2010 12:44 AM EDT reply actions
I read your article. You have an obvious bias against PPD, which is your prerogative, and I commend you for at least admitting it. I do have to question your claim about the difficulty of sneaking things in to CBP. When I went in to the last two nights games they tapped my arm at the gate. I was asked if I had anything in my pockets. I said a bunch of things. The guy at the gate said “OK” and waived me past. I’m not sure which gate you go in, but I have never been thoroughly checked or patted down at any gate I’ve ever entered. Am I unique in my experience?
by EJL on May 5, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone referencing "Don't taze me bro" have made it cliche
I liked St. Louis’s feed. They zoomed in on Yadier Molina, who was about to bat, and he was amused. He started laughing when the kid was tazed.
Now blogging on the OTHER sports in Orlando: http://www.sportcluborlando.com
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